But the people who produce the most children around here aren't working and the next generation are doing the same, which just means more taking out of the pot, not putting in. :(

Then the people who do have a good work ethic need more encouragement to breed. :)

And those who have no intention of supporting themselves (as opposed to those who need support :) ) need to be sterilised! :D ;)

I can't argue with that! :D

That would be in MY budget! ;)
I'm happy to contribute and there would be enough in the pot for everyone's NEED but not for everyone's GREED!

> Then the people who do have a good work ethic need more encouragement to breed. 

cant afford to - wouldnt manage the mortgage if I had children, oh - I need a man too ;) :rolleyes:

Not *everyone* has tax credits. And I pay plenty enough tax of my own - so please don't tar us all with the same brush :)

I have no problem with paying for a good education for every child, I do object to paying for child allowance and tax credits. I would rather see the money go to those who really need it, like the true disabled or carers for disabled children and partners. They do not have a choice.

Why is it whichever government is in power, people like my husband and I end up the losers.  We are hard working, law abiding people who have never had any money other then what we have worked hard for, yet we are always the ones who end up paying more.

I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, but from my experience most people seem to be eligible for tax credits these days.

Probably because its nigh on impossible to pay for housing these days on the average wage of you have children. However, I am not eligible and believe me, given the choice between getting my child allowance for 4 children or my taxback every month I'd be choosing my tax back!

I do agree that hard working folk shouldn't be paying for lazy, idle layabouts - but not *everyone* sponges off those who don't have children :)

I know they don't Carla.  I have no problem at all with people like yourselves that support your own family, in fact they are just the type of children we need in today's society.  Unfortunately, you are out numbered by by the type we don't need and your childrens taxes when they start earning won't be going to help the genuine needy and pensioners of tomorrow, they will paying for another generation of lazy layabouts, if we as a country carry on as we are now.

> Unfortunately, you are out numbered by by the type we don't need and your childrens taxes when they start earning won't be going to help the genuine needy and pensioners of tomorrow

Really !!!! Which country do you live in ????

Daisy

The same one as you, but in the real world.

> The same one as you, but in the real world

Again, I can only say 'Really ?? ' I am totally flabbergasted :( :( Whilst I would agree that there are a lot of people who I would term as scroungers, there are many, many people who do a good days work for not a lot of money and I am amazed how they make ends meet (and very thankful that I don't have to manage on what they earn). Have you any statistics to back up your claim that the scroungers are in the majority ??

Daisy

I agree there are a lot of people who work on a low income, they are conscientious and have a sense of responsibility. In the town that I live, there are definately more scroungers then workers, I only need to walk up the high street to see that.

The sad thing is, as a country we seem to encourage it by rewarding them. :(

I can confirm that it's like that where I live too sandrah.  I live in a holiday town where there are plenty of unskilled, minimum wage jobs, particularly in the summer but in the winter too.  Some Mums and Dads work for this low wage and support their one or two children.  Those with more than two children. they find that the benefits they are given are more than they could earn with their limited abilities and so there are plenty of fit, workshy adults around all day long. :(  As their children reach their middle teens, they start to produce children of their own, often during their last year at school never having experienced work at all.  They produce their second child within a year and at that point they are provided with a home and an income.

I have personal knowledge of a girl with 2 children.  She rents a private house in a nice area.  The rent is paid by her benefits as a single parent who does no work.  In fact the Father of her 2 children lives with her and works.  It was reported to social security who paid her a visit but did nothing because "It's difficult to know how long a relationship will last!" :(

I don't disagree with what has been said :) I just can't believe the claim that those people 'outnumber' those who work and pay their taxes :( I have no problem with helping (from taxes) people who work in low paid jobs - someone has to do them and the country would be in a sorry state if people didn't :(

> In the town that I live, there are definately more scroungers then workers, I only need to walk up the high street to see that

Could be that the other people are at work :D

Any statistics, Sandra, to support your claim of being outnumbered ??? :)

Daisy

No Daisy of course I haven't got statistics.  I have never seen a survey done yet for workers v scroungers. ;)  I am also sure it depends a lot on the area you live.

The company I work for employs cashiers for the minimum wage, we have loads of different shifts available, but can we get any staff, no, even though they are in high unemloyment area's.

Possibly because the minimum wage isn't enough to pay for childcare? Or does your company have a creche?

It is not just mums with young children who are unemployed.

No, fathers with young children to support are too. ;) Seriously, the lack of affordable childcare is one of the greatest barriers to getting 'scroungers' back to work.

Seriously (;))
There are many other factors coming into play there than just that!!! The women in my family managed just fine 'back in the day'  (I think I was just left in the front garden in my pram :D) and there's the rub...Family isnt what it used to be....and theres the other factors...many new parents first time buyers simply cannot afford to purchase homes in their home villages/towns and be near their family in the first place anymore.

many new parents first time buyers simply cannot afford to purchase homes

We purchased our first home before we had our family.  Maybe that's one just of the ways that things have changed? ;)

no..that wasnt what I was meaning.
I meant (simply) that more young people are living further away from their parents/family now (regardless of when they have their family) and so dont have that traditional childcare support structure perhaps.

Exactly. Having granny to look after the children was affordable childcare! With few places available to rent, the way most people did when they set up on their own, and house prices very high, minimum wage just isn't enough to live on.

minimum wage just isn't enough to live on.

But their benefits are!  It doesn't give them an incentive to work and be independant. :(

Ok, so I admit, I am a 'scrounger'
I get Tax credits, housing benefit and council Tax Benefit.
I work and I work HARD.
I am a single mum with 2 boys and I would LOVE to get money off there dad but unfortunatly he is not well enough to work so I am on my own.
I live in a rented house because I cannot afford a mortgage. Even if I didnt eat I still couldnt afford a mortgage now.
My kids, see me WORK, they see I cant do things there mates do because I havnt enough money. They see to be able to afford the things they do get I have to work and I get home at night exhausted because of work.
As a matter of fact, I could still be on income support (That lasted 3 months after I left my husband before I was going stir crazy) Living in a COUNCIL HOUSE and sitting on my backside doing nothing.
iF I didnt get tax credits etc thats what I would have to do as the wages I could earn in my job would not cover my rent let alone food etc.
So what would you rather. Me sit on my backside in a council house on income support.
Or....
Wrok, Work hard, show my kids that you can work and working is good, and get Tax credits?????
Thats the choice for me, I know which I would rather do.
Lea :)

Then I'm a scrounger too, Lea, because although I have two part-time jobs I still earn less than £4000 a year - husband is trying to set up a business and brings in a couple of hundred or so every month. But we're not entitled to any tax credits, though thankfully we do get housing benefit and council tax benefit - hopefully that'll continue for a while but we have to apply again. We're not entitled to income support either.

Us scroungers can stick together ;) ;) LOL
Incidentally, I could be getting alot more, as my youngest was on the brink of being sent to have tests for ADHD, because of his behaviour. I toook him off Enumbers and he calmed down over night. Now if I was that type of person I could give Sam so many Enumbers he would be a nighmare child and classed as ADHD and I would get more benefits, but I am not like that. I would rather see a happy child than more money (Please dont think I am berating anyone with a child with ADHD, I know it exsits and there are children that removing Enumbers wouldnt work, and have every sympathy and admiration for the parents of these choldren but know my son was one child it did work and still works on)
Lea :)

Well done, Lea :) :) You're certainly not a scrounger :D :D :D Your boys will be so proud of you when they are old enough to understand all that you have done for them :) :)

Daisy

Honest and great post Lea :)
I believe what you have highlighted there is the crux of a lot of societies problems today, the lack of the value of earning. (and the failing of the 'system' to further that for those that do and those that dont value a days work)

Living near an outdated seaside town myself I see a lot of people taking advantage of the plentiful cheap outdated accomodation and I am pretty sure I would not swop my life for a life on benefits.  A picnic it isn't.

Personally I've always thought that child benefit should be means tested. I have no strong objection to my taxes helping parents on low incomes but I fail to understand why those on high incomes should receive benefits for raising their children. 

Isn't that because child Benefit replaced Tax allowances for children. 

Very true HG, sadly in the country many of the rural two up two down cottages, down the road or in the next village from mum and dad have been bought out by people for second homes, which they hardly ever use, or as holiday homes from property developers and the like. They are the only ones who can afford to pay the high price demanded of these little places, which admittedly are 'little goldmines' with high resale prices and I guess for those so minded are excellent investment opertunities. It just takes the choice from the local families, which is a shame. I like the restrictions on some cottages, it at least keeps them in the community.

>from my experience most people seem to be eligible for tax credits these days.

Don't worry, we're not. We don't earn enough.

I am married and no children and will be about £50 better off but I also earn a very low wage so I suspect that might be the element that has more bearing on whether you gain or not.  This is a Labour government after all although quite what it is doing cutting income tax I don't know.  All these posters benefitting makes me wonder how on earth we can expect to raise enough money to pay for our welfare services.  Anyhoo, too political :) although I would just like to add I don't mind paying for Carla's kids at all and I hope they are to be very well educated and earn lots of lovely money to pay for my care in my dotage :)  I hope she has at least a couple more.

> I hope she has at least a couple more

LOL :D :D :D :D :D

Not sure whether Carla agrees tho' :D :D :D

Daisy

If I have any more children they'll spend the rest of their lives working to pay for my board and lodgings in the loony bin :D

LOL :D :D :D

Daisy

Pay for welfare services...........easy, just pour more money into the NHS but cap nurses pay so these already well paid people.....ha not.......can't demand more :P Good one that.....but never worry, the large car tax for bigger engines will cover the income tax decrease, charging us for the miles we cover, and any others little gems they can drop in over the next year :)

This is just a little softener to make us think we are better off, I await the reality over the coming months....

That's another £55 less for me, mostly in NI cause I don't smoke and don't drive my car much. I just got my new council tax bill, up another 3.6%. I get the privelage of paying £2000 a year to have my trash picked up. :) yes, I know there's more to it than that

I'll be worse of to the tune of around £70! :(

Thanks very much Mr Brown!

We will be £128 a year worse off - on a very low income anyway so not impressed :(

I in theory will be £129 better off but as it has been said it was people of the lower earnings that would be worse of :rolleyes:

Just done it and its saying i will be better off by £600   

Most of this increase is apparently due to my child tax credit going up by £400 next year.  Dont understand that one cos OH is earning considerably more now than when the last assessment was done and we have already been told that the amount we receive every 4 weeks will go down from £180 to £40 in April.  This budget is saying that it will go up from £180 to £210????? :rolleyes:

Of course it would nice if it did happen :D but I am not holding out for it ;)

I'll be £62.19 worse off, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a small pay rise soon, so hopefully I won't be in real terms.

I don't think the budget calculator has got the vehicle tax costs right though, it says that I'm currently paying £142.50 per year for mine, when it's more like £180 ish.

Looks like I'll have to get busy selling on ebay to make my £62 back :)

Claire

as with some other posters, if I have filled that in correctly, I will be £55 worse off..
hey ho... no surprise there then...
Oh and I'm married, with one teenager.....and a Landrover..:-)

Would have been slightly better off..........................but with the recent Council Tax increase (rec'd Monday) the increase plus more, has already gone !.

Says I will be £65.80 better off.

Not had a pay increase since April 2004 (unlikely to get one this year) but everything keeps rising so doubt I'll really be any better off.

The website said £65.80 better off.

However when I do a tax calculation I am worse off.