Just curious as I have looked at so many sites about various dog training/behaviour qualifications that I cant decided which one would be best. I eventually want to be a behaviourist but rather than relying on my practical experience I want something in black and white.

Has anyone else done any courses or qualifications? If so, what did you do and what did you think of it?

Are there any courses you would avoid?

Thanks everyone

Dale
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I'm currently doing a diploma/msc in companion animal behaviour counselling. Its 3 years part time at Southampton Uni. I believe its quite a good qualification for would be behaviourists, and most who have done the course go on to join the apbc. I'm only in the first year and so far its very theoretical, we do more practical work later on, but you do need at least 2 years experience working with animals other than your own and a relevant degree i.e. psychology, biology, vet science etc to be accepted. SO far i've found it fascinating, although its all coursework based so the home work is quite plentiful.

Me and a fair few other people on CD are doing a foundation degree in canine behaviour and training in Beverley (E Yorkshire) - in college or as a correspondence course.  I'm doing the latter, I have to go in to college four times year for practical trainnig sessions, assessments, that sort of thing, so the tutors can check we're all doing things the way we should be!

It's a 3 yr course, and there's an option of another 2 yrs to earn a BSc Hons degree (which I'm taking when the time comes).  I'd recommend it - the info is very thorough, it covers everything from development of the dog (as a species/domesticated animal) through to trainnig methods, what works/doesn't work and why, nutrition & physiology, so on and so forth.  Basically, everything dog - that's what attracted me to it, I wanted a specific course of study into dogs.

I would think what to avoid depends on what you want - although I'd avoid any that promote punishments.  Personally I didn't want to do a course that looked at animal behaviour in general, but I wanted a thorough degree course - so it wasn't hard for me to choose! :D

Nikita - Would love to hear whats going on at BBC these days! Whos taking the course? Have they got the Canine degree up and running yet..... and many other questions!
I did the Animal Behaviour and Training course there and finished coming up to a couple years ago know - so expect things have changed a little!

Heather

I'm not 100% sure, but I think they're just about to launch the full degree - right now it's still the foundation degree that I'm doing, but there's been debate about what we'd like to study in the years to take us to BSc Hons level.

following on from this, are there any online/distance learning courses that anyone knows of?
cheers

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but The Centre of Applied Pet Ethology run accredited courses offering a qualification accredited by an external, recognised awarding body ­ The Open College Network.

http://www.coape.org/courses.html

The open college network web site:  http://www.nocn.org.uk/

Hi Nikita,

I like the sound of that course. I dont live near Yorkshire but wonder if I could still do it by correspondance. Could you let me know where I can find out more about this?

Thanks
Dale

I did the HNC at BB - which is now the FDSc

I've always failed to see how practical, hands-on skills can be taught by correspondence courses.  How can peripheral vision be taught from a distance?  Experience, experience and more experience, with a little academic knowledge is what would make a good trainer/behaviourist to me.  How can a tutor really know if you understand dogs just because you can tick a few boxes or write a good essay?  It seems like just a good way of taking your money to me :(

I came across distance learning trained hynotherapists some years ago.  They could quote plenty of theory, but if the clients didn't fit into what they'd been taught (which people and dogs never do because none of us react to a situation in the same way), they didn't have a clue what to do to help.  If they wanted to work then they had to take practical courses and get hands-on experience, watching an experienced therapist at work.

Does anyone know of any distance plumber or electrician courses that I could take?  I'm sure that I could make a pig's ears of either skill and earn a good living these days.  Would you trust me to work in your house if that's how I had trained?

That's why we have to travel to college four times a year - to check on our training methods and make sure we're savvy on reading body language, not too rough/confusing/working too fast and so on.  I also don't believe you can become a good trainer purely by theory - but when I wanted to start a course there wasn't anything near me.

Also a requirement of the course is that you either have your own dog (or dogs, in many students' cases!) or have access to a dog for training regularly (not just for the times at college), so that you get the hands-on needed.  In college we also get the benefit of each others' dogs - not to train ourselves, but to see how different dogs react to methods, how some methods don't work in all cases, body language/reactions/training in dogs with physical difficulties, different body structures (such as JRTs vs. sighthounds) and psychological issues.  Again, not something you can get from theory-only.

That's why we have to travel to college four times a year   Goodness me.  That really is very limited experience. :(   I wouldn't feel confident to deal with strange dogs if that was all the practical, supervised experience that I had. :(

I would expect a reasonable requirement would be to attend a weekly local training class run by an experienced trainer and then after about 4 years, sufficient knowledge/experience would be gained to begin to understand (and be able to help) what was happening to a strange, client's dog.

It seems to me that they are writing courses to suit what paying students want rather than what is best for the problematic dogs. :(

True, but it's a darn sight better than a lot of the courses available with no hands-on needed at all.  And there's constant communication between tutors and students about methods and so on.

I agree that attending a weekly class would be a good idea - but, it's not always that easy to find a suitable class that doesn't use corrections or that can alter training methods for individual dogs.  I found that trying to find a good agility club for Remy - 3 tries and not one suited, the methods were too harsh or didn't work with him and the trainers were inflexible.  And there's the insurance angle - not all trainers can (or want to) cater for an assistant, given the claim culture that's rife at the moment.  Incidentally there is a work based learning requirement for the course - I did a hydrotherapy placement for this year, and I have to find something else next year.  But finding one was very difficult, the placement I got was actually the only one available.  So expecting an entire year of students to find a long-term placement is, IMO, impractical if not impossible, either because of insurance or schoolkids taking up the spaces.

It isn't ideal by any means - but I find it preferable to most of the options.  I've seen 3-day behaviourism courses - and my Dad has told me of a trainer in Spain who has a successful business after doing a 2 day course.  That disturbs me.

and my Dad has told me of a trainer in Spain who has a successful business after doing a 2 day course.  That disturbs me.

Me too!  But it's typical of the 'I want to do it and so why shouldn't I even if I don't have the time or wish to make to effort to be good at it?' attitude these days.  And with all of these inadequate courses, fools and their money ........... 

You can do a 2 week dog grooming course, but you'll not learn enough to be in business for more that 4 weeks - nobody will come back for a second trim unless you're REALLY cheap! :(

I'm also on the BB course and it's hard work :P

As Nikita says, we do work based learning (a bit peculiar at 45 years of age but there we go :P ) and I also did hydrotherapy and was able to add behavioural and training to that. I've already got experience in both but do want this eventual degree qualification as at the end of the day, hope to join the APBC as I consider them the best of the organisations.

The block weeks at college are very intense and we are all shattered at the end, a good feeling though. We have to train dogs to an advanced standard and prove we can do it; some students who attend weekly are able to train much more often but those of us who work distance have to show we can still learn about the training and put it into practice by attending agility or whatever - the college checked we would be able to do this when we enrolled :) Some students are already in canine industries or related, eg one student is a police dog handler, another in the RAF as a handler :)

It is really thorough and I'm pleased with it so far.

It is really difficult to be apprenticed to a behaviourist or trainer - there is only room for so many and of course, you may end up as their competition. It's a popular industry now and I'm not sure that's a good thing as we need quality not quantity. I had to pay for my work based learning!

Lindsay
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we need quality not quantity.

Oh you're sooooo right! :)

I can understand that for a mid aged person, with a life time (so far;) ) of experience with dogs, then a correspondence course with a bit of practical can be just fine.  But they appear to make these courses available?  Do you know anyone who has been rejected?

Some students are already in canine industries or related, eg one student is a police dog handler, another in the RAF as a handler
Now that I can accept and understand.

It is really difficult to be apprenticed to a behaviourist or trainer - there is only room for so many and of course, you may end up as their competition
A bit like groomers, which is why you sometimes need to travel to get good training, because local groomer/trainer isn't always a good one. :(  But all the good groomers and trainers that I've met are only too pleased to bring on a really good student.  If they are good at their work, then they will have more clients than they can deal with on their own and appreciate a good student who they can bring on in their own way to help and continue their work.  The secret is finding good one, then they are not afraid of competition. ;)

As always Lindsay, you explained it better than me! :D

There is no nationally benchmarked qualification to become a dog trainer, some of the best ones I know have none and some of the worst have a whole raft of "letters" after their name.

There is no substitute for experience. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of "trainers" and "behaviourists" out there who have never owned a dog, or owned only one for five minutes and have never trained it to any degree and they are busy advising others! :rolleyes:

Academic studies are good, but unless you have had hands on experience with hundreds of dogs of all different breeds your skills will be in short supply.

One of the reasons that several extremely talented, skilled, knowledgeable, able and experienced people did not join certain organisations in the past................. and in the present.

Agree with you 101% tohme. :rolleyes:  I still cannot generally accept that distance learning is the right way for this subject, although I understand that some will be good trainers with a pice of paper.  But these are the same people who have an understanding and could have been good trainers without qualifications. :D

I completely agree. I am doing a COAPE course from home and finding it really good but i also sought out a really good recommended trainer and asked if i could help out at her class on a voluntary basis. She teaches from puppies to adults and i get lots of hands on experience with a wide variety of dogs. She also let me shadow her on a few behavioural consultations so that i could see what was involved.:rolleyes:

I also volunteer at a local rescue at the weekend, again to get to know more about certain breeds.

I would not dream of trying to become a trainer/behaviourist if i had no hands on experience

Thanks everyone.

Its because I am looking to follow the behaviourst/trainer career path in a few years and recently had an interview for a Dog Warden position where I was asked what training/handling qualifications I had. I had many years practical experience but nothing down on paper. I did have references from dog trainers I have worked alongside and an excellent refference from the RSPCA but they wanted to hear about qualifications. I actually came second to someone who had worked as a warden for another Authority.

I dont think for a second that a qualification is a quick fix and would prefer experience any day. I will always want to attend courses and seminars to make sure that I am on the pulse with issues regarding training and behaviour.

There are so many what I call mickey mouse quals and I was just trying to find out what experiences anyone had had and if there was anything they could recomend.

Thanks for all your relies
Dale

The thing about experience is that one could be learning from the wrong people, who have never updated anything. For instance, you could find someone who has been with dogs for over 30 years and claims they know everything to know, (whereas in reality all they know is old fashioned techniques like training with a check chain) and you can have someone who has been with dogs for maybe 5 years and has better handling and training skills.

The flip side of that, is that there are some excellent trainers who are not members of any organisation and who really are very good - but they may not have a an in depth  knowledge of actual behaviour! :D Turning that over again, one of the best trainers I know has no degree but is very genned up on training and behaviour.

Updating knowledge is very important. One has only to watch the appalling tv programmes on dog training to realise that just knowing about dog training really isn't enough. I was appalled to see the treatment of one dog on a tv programme to which I knew the background. The dog was in pain but it was being handled so badly,  by someone who is supposed to use reward based techniques. In spite of the dog showing calming signals and being very frightened, it was still being forced to do things it really shouldn't have been. This is where a knowledge of behaviour comes in, rather than just training.

There are a couple of people in the APBC who are basically academic behaviourists, however this is made obivious.
Most have a lot of hands on experience. I atttended a seminar for predatory chasing last autumn as it is one of my main interests, and the speaker was APBC member David Ryan who is also a Cumbrian police dog trainer and who has helped many people prevent chasing - now,that's hands on. He had the best mix - a strong grounding in hands on training and an in depth understanding of the theory side of things.

There was some concern that it was best to get a full degree because at one stage there were murmurings that only vets should be allowed to be behaviourists -heaven knows why as they are busy enough in other areas. It was felt that making training and behaviour more acceptably academic would give behaviourists who are not vets a better standing if ever their occupation was threatened, and more respect from vets etc who they may have contact with.

I don't think this will ever happen in the UK but you never know.

Lots of luck Dale in whichever path you go down for your career. It may be possible to do a fairly in depth course such as COAPE but to keep on learning by yourself, attending seminars and workshops. I'd also highly recommend training your own dog to a good standard, perhaps in a canine sport, as this will give you more confidence :)

These links may be of interest:

http://www.apbc.org.uk/career.htm

http://www.apbc.org.uk/training_courses.htm

http://www.coape.co.uk/courses.html

Lindsay
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