Spender Hepatitis is Adno, thats one of the 3 that vax gives immunity to for 3yrs

And £46.41 is pricey for the lab charge, Glasgow do all 3 for £25 & I`m sure another poster(Moonmaiden) put links of other labs that were even cheaper.

just realised, why are you thinking to titre this yr? the dogs are covered for the 3 major till 2007

At the time, Christine, the practise was still boostering annually.  We refused the booster and wanted the titre test.  Hep (adeno) was low.  It was a bit pricey; I didn't actually pay for it tho, I tell you why by PM, Lol. 

Last year they told us we'd have to titre test again this year but you are right, there is no need to do so now as the 2004 booster covers them for 3 yrs.    

Whats it saying Dawn? :)

Have PMd you. :)

Hiya 123, prices depend on which labs are used. Annies right, you can`t titre for lepto or Pi but you can for all the others. Hers links to some labs that do it :)

http://www.gla.ac.uk/companion/Pricelist.pdf yes I`ve done titres but prices have gone up this yr at Glasgow:rolleyes:

But its just the one lot of blood that vet needs to take & send, the lab only needs that 1 sample to test for all 3 & will charge £25, you can check prices at link above. There are other labs & MoonMaiden posted them with their prices but I can`t find it now. Will have a look again & post what I can find :)

Sorry to be thick Christine but what's the description of what we're trying to find a price for? :D

its just *titre testing* A, nothing else :)

Must be blind as well as thick then Christine - still can't see it!!!! :)

where you looking for it A??

Can see various bits that look likely Christine, just not anything that says 'titre testing'.  Found it on your other link, no probs.

I can't see it either Annie, so it's not just you!!

Annie are you looking for the titre testing on the Glasgow price sheet? If so look in the Canine section under infectious diseases and you will see CPV, CDV and CAV antibodies (anti-CPiV not appropriate). This is the titre testing :) (CPV = Parvo, CDV = Distemper & CAV = Adenovirus )

Karen - when I read that you were quoted £150 I was shocked!! I had mine titre tested and it came to less than £60 (approx £22 consultation fee (including the drawing of blood), £25 for the actual lab tests and a few pounds for sending the sample away). £150 is a ludicrous price

Right I see what your looking for now, didn`t know what you meant :rolleyes:

I/cosmos is right :)

scroll down to about half way down & under canine infectious diseases & its the last 2 bottom ones CPV & CDV £18 & underneath that CPV,CDV & CAV antibodies etc etc £25

CPV= canine parvo virus
CDV = canine distemper virus
CAV= canine adno(hepatitis) virus

ice - what was the result of your titre test?  Did your dogs need to be revaccinated?  How long ago were they last vaccinated?

PM Sent :)

Ice would it be too much to ask for you to put that info on the board, would be good for everyone if you could, but understand if you can`t :)

ps forgot to say please.......:D

Yes, go on ice put it on the board - I can post your PM up if you give your permission, so you don't need to type it again!

Thanks very much Ice - it's that naughty Christine's fault, as I was looking for something that actually said titre testing! :D  (Don't mean it Christine, what would we do without you and all those wonderful links :))

Sorry A, confused meself as well :rolleyes: :D

:D :D

:D

No problem :)

Heres another lab price but can`t seem to find anymore but sure a lot of vet teaching uni`s have diagnostic labs :)

http://www.biobest.co.uk/forms/website_price_list-diagnostic_work.pdf

Hi all
Here is a link to a site which shows the full powerpoint presentation by Dr Bob Rogers in the states
the lecture notes are also included and it all makes very interesting reading.
Personally i only give vaccines to puppies and have done so for 20 years, maybe i am just lucky or maybe as
the presentation says they are covered for life as memory cells NEVER forget even if the titres are low/reduced.
(only exception is for pet passports but i only get the rabies shot - you do not need the others)

Sharon

http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/index.htm

Great site S :)

Its not worth it, it only tests for circulating antibodies NOT whether your dog is immune to a disease or not.  Memory cell fight disease, you cant measure memory cells.  My Bitch came back low Parvo and borderline Distemper.  The Uni told me it does NOT mean she needed a booster, just that her immune system had not come into a disease she was vaccinated against recently, if she had, the memory cells would of mounted a response and the cirulating antibodies would of given a higher reading.
Dawn.

I know you don`t think so Dawn, but is there anything else you can suggest to these concerned folk? :)

forgot to say, yep Dawn is correct in what she says, if a low titre does come back it does NOT mean the animal isn`t immune. Nothing can show up memory cells, but they are there & they never forget :)

Not really Chritine, I looked into it all and decided not to vaccinate again.  If their Vet is giving a full booster when the vaccine maufacturers are saying every third year, then that Vet needs reporting.  I think its a hard choice, nobody can make the decision for anyone else.  When i had my bitch done 2yrs ago it was £46.00
Dawn.

Who should I report them to Dawn?  When I asked them about it, they gave the usual answer of - it's easier to do the whole lot every year, people move house, change vets, skip a year, have jabs done elsewhere etc etc and the only way they know every dog is covered is if the whole lot is done every year....!!! 

I'm now probably going to do as follows:  Puppy jabs and 1st yr boosters only.  No more jabs, and probably no titre testing either (due to the memory cell thing), although may review that and have a titre test done.  I feel like a bit of a rebel and a minority to be doing this though, so it would be good to hear from others who are doing non-conventional vaccination schemes!

In those links which Christine posted, it states that the "big 3" (Parvo, Adenovirus and Distemper) are all actually good for minimum of 7-9 yrs, max life time of dog.  If a dog received 1st yr boosters, that would mean the dog would be between 8-10 yrs before the "big three" could run out and I'd possibly titre test then.

As for the 1st yr booster and why give that - Again, reading these links, they state that if a pup is vaccinated after 12-14 wks, the jabs should last as I just mentioned - 7-9 yrs min or life time max and you shouldn't need 1st yr booster.  So, I guess I could wait until a pup is 12 wks before vaccinating, but I'm not sure I'd feel happy having a pup out in an urban area being fully socialised with no jabs and there's no way I'd keep indoors and jeopardise socialisation.  So, the alternative is to do early vax of 7 wks and 10 wks, and then do 1st yr boosters before stopping, and that's what I think I'm going to do.  What do others do???  Once you've decided to go this route it seems there are lots of different options from no vax at all, to vax every 3 yrs, to titre testing, to only early vax!!

Headache, isn't it?????

I used to give primary vaccine and no boosters since 1965, on the advice of the Vet that I worked for.......  I was involved with clinical trials of Nobivac in about 1984 and had contact with Glasgow Uni who were conducting the trial, and confirmed that boosters were unnecessary.  For a number of reasons that I've written about many times before, I stopped vaccinating at all in 1996 and have used nosodes ever since.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to do anything other than follow the vaccinine manufacturers' recommendations if they chose to vaccinate, or to do their own research if they chose not to. :)

Val, since you stopped vaccinating in 1996, have any of your dogs fallen ill from a disease they would have been vax against?  And do they meet a lot of other dogs (shows, obedience, training etc etc)?

None have been ill or been to the Vet at all.  I've had only lady pts a month off her 15th birthday, and one 6 year old (the first to have no primary vaccination) I took to the Vet with a bee sting.  He gave her Rimadyl and she was dead with liver failure in 4 days!  Never even been off colour in her life before.

My girls go to shows and mix in public places, parks, beach etc most days.  But they also weren't ill before when I had primary vaccinations.  When I had the grooming parlour, they also came in contact with the those dogs too.

Rightly or wrongly, I trust nosodes and Parvocide when I have puppies.  What can I say?????????????????  Except I sympathise with the dilema.

I would think to the Royal college of Veterinary surgeons.  Its not right that they blantently defy the instruction on the drugs they are administering to peoples pets, especially when most of them repeatedly go there for treatment, so the vaccine history would be with them.

Its a mine field now isnt it, i dont do my Cats either, just kitten Vaccs.
Dawn.

Yes you could try RSVC  <a class='url' href='http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=92575#unethical'>http://www.rcvs.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=92575#unethical</a>

Not sure they`d be able to do anything but worth a go :)

You`d be surprised how many just do puppy vax, theres quite a few 123 ;) :D

I wouldn`t give a 7wk old pup a vax, too young, if you go thru those links again you`ll see a few thoughts on giving them younger.
This is were titre testing does come into its own, you can titre the pup & it can be worked out when maternal antibodies have waned & when would be the best time to vax.
Then another titre about 10 days after the vax to see if its taken & if it has no more is needed for at least 7yrs :D

Heres a link :)

<a class='url' href='http://www.fetchthepaper.com/read/06-jan/health-options.htm'>http://www.fetchthepaper.com/read/06-jan/health-options.htm</a>

ps had a litter of 10 pups, non had vax, 2yrs ago now & all well & healthy out & about everywhere. My adult dogs haven`t had a vax for 5yrs & they`re the same, healthy 7 happy.

Yes its a hard decision alright Dawn!!

One of the most compelling factors for me is, surely if Schultz & others are wrong about vax giving at least 7yrs, if not lifelong immunity, why aren`t the manu`s refuting it, shouldn`t they be shouting from the rooftops they don`t?? I decided 5yrs ago no more vax & dogs have been fine :)

Absolutely agree, no vets should be giving boosters for the 3 core diseases when it should be no more then every 3yrs

Having only become aware of the vaccination issues in March (and sadly too late for our last dog) - I've read an awful lot of data, information & opinions. When we got our new puppy we decided to have the first full vaccinations at 10 & 12 weeks and most likely will never have any boosters at all. We're far too wary of them now. I've now begun looking up info on any drugs prescribed for both ourselves and our dog in the hope we can be better informed and in more control of what we decide to do.

I think titre testing is a good thing if it prevents vets giving boosters indiscriminately. I think that manufacturers recommendations should be followed when they say the vaccine gives 3 or 4 years protection.
I even read two articles that showed statistical evidence that certain breeds are more prone to vaccination reactions than others, and ours is one of them - lots of information and much to sift though and evaluate.
Let's face it, even information given at the highest levels can be suspect at times, and being told that something is safe by professional bodies or government officials just isn't enough for me now.

I intend to find out more about nosodes as I've heard many first-hand good reports, including breeders who have had healthy generations of dogs using nosodes.

Could someone tell me the name of the vaccine manufacturer that is for 3 years please?
My pup received the Quantum Dog 7 vaccine he had a reaction and the company believes it may have been the lepto part of injection. When speaking to the vet he advised us to keep doing the yearly vaccination that I should leave my pup at surgery for them to keep an eye on him and that if a reaction occurred again they would administer antihistamine and adrenalin. At the time when he told this to us we where more concerned about getting our pup healthy due to all the problems he has and we where both still angry that the other vet who administered the injection dismissed the signs of the reaction so told the vet we would do some research and speak on this matter with him nearer the time.

My husband read your post onetwothree and he was thinking maybe if we got him vaccinated every three years and the lepto yearly, he is thinking just maybe he will not have as bad of reaction. My husband wants me to ask you all what would you all do if you where in our shoes? How does the 3 year vaccine work would our pup have to start the course all over again for this vaccine to have full immunity? What are nosodes and how do they work?

In October it is dated he must receive his annual booster our pup is still up and down more up than down and no way am I going to allow him to be injected until I feel he is healthy so it's time we started to do some research could you all point us in the right directions please.

Hi Katt -

There are quite a few vaccine manufacturers whose vaccines are officially approved for use for 3 yrs - my vet uses Duramune, which is one.  There is also Nobivac and Intervet.  There may be others - does anyone know of any more? 

If your vet doesn't use these vaccines, you can go to another vet just for the jabs/boosters and see your regular vet for all other health problems - that was what I was going to do.

If you want to check how long the one your vet uses lasts for, look it up here: www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/

However, the thing to point out is that according to Schultz and a lot of these other links I'm reading now, it doesn't really matter whether a vaccine has been approved for 1 yr or 3 yrs - they all last at least 3 yrs for sure and probably more like 7-9 yrs.  The 1 yr or 3 yr thing just depends on how long the vaccine test ran for.  The 3 yr thing is just a marketing strategy because some companies realised that if they could claim they lasted 3 yrs, whereas other companies were still saying 1 yr, vets and consumers might switch to their vaccine.  The truth according to what I've discovered now, is that it is just how long they've been tested for, and a vaccine is a vaccine and all vaccines work the same way - they can't have one that lasts 1 yr and one that lasts 3 yrs.  Have a look here and scroll down to the question "How long does vaccine immunity last?": http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm

So it doesn't matter if your Quantum vaccine isn't approved for 3 yrs, it's going to work as well/last as long as the ones which are.  No, he wouldn't start all over again to have full immunity - he would just have 1 booster whenever you decided it was time for him to have one, instead of every year.

As for the lepto thing, you should read this link: http://www.caberfeidh.com/Lepto.htm

If your dog has had a reaction to the full booster, then it is quite probably the lepto part of it he is reacting to - seeing as Lepto is known to cause more reactions than any other vaccine.  I don't think you would be improving things much to give the lepto separately to the others - he would still be getting it - and often 2nd reactions to vaccines are much bigger/more serious than first reactions are (just like other substances which cause allergies - your first bee-sting might cause a small allergic reaction, your 2nd one could see you hospitalised, same with nut allergies etc).  Personally, if he were mine, I wouldn't give any more lepto jabs for sure, and I would wait at least 3 yrs before doing a titre test to see if the other "big 3" vaccines were needed (parvo, distemper and adenovirus).

Nosodes are different to vaccines.  They are homeopathic and the homeopathic answer to vaccination.  I believe they contain a "dead" version of the virus (vaccines contain a live version).  You give them to the dog as tablets and they are supposed to help make the dog at least resistant to the same diseases as vaccines cover.  They don't cause any kind of reactions, but some people don't think they work and do nothing.  They can't do any harm though, and if you decide not to vaccinate they might be a good idea.

Anyway, I'm still trying to unravel this for myself at the moment but hope that helps a bit.

Forgot to say - If you were going to do the nosode thing properly, your best course would be to see a holistic/homeopathic vet.

However, if you don't want to go into it quite that much/can't find a holistic vet/don't want to switch vets etc etc, there are some available online here:

http://www.naturalpetcare.co.uk/petshop/product_info.php?cPath=46_47&products_id=351&osCsid=def3562ebee2df6e1314d838e446ec22

Thanks for that link onetwothree - apart from homeopathic vets (none very close to us) I only knew of Ainsworths & Weleda for nosodes :)

Our puppy had the Duramune earlier this month at 12 weeks for the second one.
Not easy to find info on the types that state specifically '3 years' (or more) - but I also thought the general opinion is that it's generally felt that most vaccines can be effective for 3 years or more.

Christine, a friend of mine has just got a pup and apparently he was told from his vet that they can now give the first course at 6 weeks as they have just received a new type of vac??? Has anyone else heard this?

I think Intervet has always said that Nobivac can be started at 6 weeks Spender but the second lot needs to be at 10 weeks or later because of the influence of maternal antibodies.  I personally wouldn't consider it but that's just me. :)

123,
Just to tell you that I will not be vaccinating my dogs as one who has been very ill just can't be vaccinated, I will go ahead and get titre tests done(80 quid at my vets)but the good news is,I met my vet today walking his dog,we had a chat about vacs and he knows we can't vaccinate my dog peg as he has treated her for the last 10 months, and has said he would happily read any info I print for him, and, as my dogs are salukis, he said he wondered what they did in the middle east where they come from,
Thats what I call progress!
ash

>as my dogs are salukis, he said he wondered what they did in the middle east where they come from

The same as happens in most countries less well-off than ours, I imagine, bearing in mind that in many Middle-Eastern countries dogs are untouchable animals.

Im sure your right ,only that salukis are supposed to sacred to allah,so we hope that affords them just a bit of respect(you have got hope)
But I still give my vet points for trying!

Saw a programme once about salukis, they were revered by their owners..........

and it was in the middle east

Yep Annies right Spender, they`ve been able to give them from 6wks for awhile:rolleyes:  Thing is tho if pup has maternally derived antibodies they`ll overide the vax so whats the point

I've been reading all these posts with interest...
Two years ago, I was seeing Chris Day frequently with one of my (now departed) cavaliers, on referral from my "conventional" vet. As I also had two young cavaliers, both who had only received their first course of puppy innoculations, I decided to use nosodes instead of boosters, prescribed under Mr Day, therefore they have certificates.(Some training classes accept these.)
My "conventional" vet acknowledges my long-standing concern about over-vaccination issues, and since then has been quite happy for me to arrange for the dogs just to have an annual examination, to check that all is well, but no boosters.
I recently asked about titre testing, and the vet's called me, quoting a very reasonable £47 per dog, for the whole procedure. I'm planning on having their titres checked, just to give me some extra peace of mind, plus continuing with the nosodes, and will have them vaccinated IF the Glasgow lab report warrants it.
My vet said he thinks this a sensible way to go, for anyone like me who has concerns about the whole vaccination debate.(The protocol at this practice is every 3 years.)

From now on, I'll go for the testing regime.
Sami
  

Sounds like you have a good vet there Sami :) 

>>.(Some training classes accept these.)<<  So do the PATS dogs S :D

Just like to let everyone know, most, if not all of the testing labs give a discount on more bloods that need testing, be advantageous to get groups of people to reduce cost maybe??

I also have to say, please remember if you get a low titre back it doesn`t mean the dog has no immunity, just means he hasn`t been in contact with said disease.

I know full well the feelings when you get a low titre...... & also a high titre & like Sami says, titring can give peace of mind, specially when it comes back high :)

Christine (and sami and everyone!) -

If titres can come back low, but that doesn't mean the dog has a low resistance to that disease, just that the dog hasn't been in contact with the disease recently, is it worth having them done at all???  I mean - in that case I would just worry!  I'd either worry that the dog doesn't really need the jab, but is going to have it anyway, or I'd worry if I didn't have the jab, in case the dog really DID need it!! 

Is there an argument here for someone not even to titre test and just assume that everything is ok??  And then, perhaps, give a booster at age 5?  Or not at all!?