I'm interested in finding out more about this...

Is it possible for a vet to take 1 blood sample and then the lab to titre test this for all the relevant diseases?  Or would they need to take a different sample for each disease?

Which diseases can be titre tested for?  I'm assuming that lepto and parainfluenza can't be, only viral diseases not bacterial ones?

Has anyone gone down the titre test route and how much did it cost?  Was that per disease or for the lot?

Thanks.

Can't answer your question, but there is a small article on page 8 of this weeks Our Dogs, about titre testing.

Dawn R.

Hiya,

My vets quoted me £150.00 and I don't know if that was for the lot or just the parainfluenza as that's the only one with my vaccine that it is reccomeded by the manufacturers is done each year, the rest are covered for three years even though my vets booster for more than that every year.  I'm interested to find out more about this aswell.  Apparently my vets are only charging £15.00 to take the blood - the rest is lab fees, I think she said it was a lab in Glasgow.  My girl is due for her booster next month so I will be looking into this in more detail over the next couple of weeks.

Karen

Hi Karen,  I'm sure Christine (who will no doubt be along later to clarify :)) told me that the lab fees at Glasgow were only around the £30 mark so if your vet is charging £15 to draw the blood and send it off, I'm not clear where the £150 comes from.   My underestanding is also that titre tests can't be used for lepto or parainfluenza.

Hi Annie,

I didn't realise the titre tests couldn't be used for those, thanks for that.

Karen

Karen, my vet too told me it would be "very expensive", but when pushed further couldn't exactly clarify exactly how much that meant!!  I got the feeling they were trying to put me off doing it.  They also implied I was being "difficult" when I asked (politely) about it! 

My vet uses a vaccine which is approved for 3 yrs, but they give the full booster annually, despite this!!  When I asked them if they would be able to just get in the lepto and parainfluenza components for me annually, they said it would be too expensive because we'd have to buy a whole batch of them, they couldn't just get a few, and we'd have to pay for the whole lot!!!!!

So I have now found a vet which will get in any vaccine I want, without my having to buy the whole batch, and is willing to just see me for boosters if necessary so I can stay with my regular vet for any other health problems.

However, I'm now thinking that maybe I won't bother with the annual lepto or parainfluenza jabs at all, seeing as the lepto one is responsible for over half of all vaccine reactions and anyway only covers 2 out of 4 types of lepto.  I also know that these jabs probably only last about 9 months.  So now I'm thinking perhaps I will wait around about 5 yrs, and do a titre test for the biggies, and not bother about the lepto or parainfluenza ones at all.  Does anyone else do that?

Hi 123,

It's such a minefield isn't it!  I really don't know what to do for the best - I know I don't want to have her done for everything annually - maybe I'll look into what you've done and look for another vet to just do the vaccinations.  Although I don't like a lot of things about my practise which is a fairly big one - I have been seeing the same vet for a long time and I do trust her - and she knows I know my animals so really listens to me, one of my cats and Ciara my Dobe both have long term health problems and she's been great with them; I didn't really think about the option of having just them done at another vets.

Interesting that the lab fees at Glasgow are only £30.00 - I'll have to see what my vets say about that!

Karen

Hi K/C, Glasgow only charge £25 to test for Parvo, Distemper & Adno, check prices at link below, so maybe you need to speak to your vet again

http://www.gla.ac.uk/companion/Pricelist.pdf

And seeings tho the duration of immunity from vaccines for those diseases is 3yrs you don`t need to have your dogs boostered or titred till 3yrs from the time of your dogs last vax :)

Hiya Christine,

Thanks for that info - I will be having a word with my vets believe me!  For those diseases I can wait 3 years but I still need to get her boostered for lepto and parainfluenza, (if I want her covered for those) every year, and then titred or re-vaccinated in 2 years time?

Also when I was looking up the manufacurers guidlines for my vaccine I couldn't find any info about what it suggested for lepto which I now know is reccomended every year, but just wandered why it didn't give details of that or have I just been a numpty and missed it?

Karen

Yep, as can`t titre for those 2 K/C its either you vax or don`t each yr!

Don`t know why you couldn`t find the info on Lepto, which make of vax is it & I`ll show you were to look :)

well actually I`ll give the link now & you can see if you can find it :)

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Compendium/Overview/-21790.html

Thanks Christine, that wasn't the website I was looking at.  I did find a bit about lepto - but even on the website you gave me the link for it's not in with the other info in the section about boostering, is there a specific reason for that is it a different kind of vaccine used compared to the others?  Not really important any way I've found the info :-)  It's Nobivac that my girls are vaccinated with.

Karen

Yep there is a specific reason, first Lepto is a bacterial disease, also it can be caused by many serovars & the vaccine used is a killed one cos its zoonotic, (means people can catch it) :)

Link below should explain it better than me plus I`d take an age typing it all out :rolleyes: :)

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Lepto.htm

it says vax for Lepto lasts a yr & booster every yr.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Intervet_UK_Ltd/Nobivac_Lepto_2/-29521.html

Disgraceful isn't it Karen?  A locum at my vets tried to tell me it would cost about £120, not so much profiteering I think in her case but an attempt to try to put me off going down that route as she was very pro vaccination.  I think it is extremely dishonest if your vet is trying to make extra profit by stating that the lab fees are far higher than they actually are.  Love to be a fly on the wall when he finds out you actually know what the lab charges are! :)

Hi Annie,

Yeah I do think it's disgraceful - I think it's terrible that vets aren't making people aware of the options of titre testing (certainly a lot of them aren't any way), even if the benefits of vaccinating on the whole out weigh the negatives, I think we should be made aware of the facts and given the option - not every body is as obsessive about their dogs as we are :-) and won't do the same amount of research to find out on their own.  Then even when we are aware they try and put us off by saying the fee is much higher than it really is.  Ggrrr! :-)

Karen

If I had my way, vets would at least have to offer titre testing before each 3 year booster.  As you say, most people aren't aware that this is even an option.  Hopefully if the word spreads and more people decide to titre test, prices will become much more competitive and no-one will get away with this type of behaviour.

Vets would actually make more money if everybody titre tested! :rolleyes: If you go for the annual booster you get charged for A) the consultation fee (no sane person begrudges paying a professional for their time), B) a basic check-up (done in greater detail if you mention anything worrying you've noticed) of heart, lungs, BMI etc, and C) the vaccine. If you titre test you get charged for A, B, D) the titre test (taking the blood, sending it off and the lab test) and possibly C as well if the results indicate boostering is needed!

Am I the only one who can see how the conspiracy terrorists are working? Let's all spread the word that vets are the devil incarnate who're trying to kill our pets so they can make money. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: For crying out loud, if anyone's that daft they shouldn't have responsibility of an animal!

Sorry JG but apart from what I've seen with my own eyes, I've listened to a Vet from one of the vaccine manufacturers for 3 hours, and there's no way that I'd have my dogs vaccinated again.  Having said that, I wouldn't tell anyone else to do what I do, but to either follow the vaccine manufacturers' instructions or do their own research.
I'm the other side of the fence to you on this one.

>I'm the other side of the fence to you on this one.

Yep, and that's not a problem for me, Val! :) We're intelligent adults who can make our own decisions. :)

>>>We're intelligent adults who can make our own decisions<<<

As are the majority of posters on this board ;)

We all have to have our decisions and judgments on our experience and knowledge at any given time - that's the best any of us can do.  :)
But why oh why has it taken 40 years for the rest of the profession to catch up with the information that the Vet that I worked for, gave me all that time ago??  He could have boosted his own dogs for nothing, and the diseases that they vaccinated for were far more common then, and the treatments available not so effective as they are today.

His very words were "All pups need vaccinating but boosters are Vets pocket money!"  But of course that was in house and not said to the clients!

You know thats what gets me as well Val, the time its taken & some are still doing them :(

I just don`t understand some people either. Wanting evidence that they`re needed yet happy to accept them without any evidence

If vets are getting a hard time/bad name over this they`ve only themselves to blame. And I`ve already said I love my vet, I have the utmost respect for him :) He himself only gives puppy vax.

Was that aimed at me JG?  If so I really don't understand what you're getting at.  Yes of course titre testing is an additional charge (depending on whether or not subsequent boostering is necessary) which to me just shows that people are willing to pay extra to do something they feel is in the best interests of their dog.  I wasn't saying that anyone had to titre test, purely that I thought it should be offered so the client was aware of the option.

It is blatantly obvious from the above posts that some people enquiring about titre testing have been given very inflated prices for the service and that is what I was taking issue with.

Really don't see how you've deduced from that the content of your last paragraph.

>Yes of course titre testing is an additional charge

The majority of which goes to those doing the test. I.e. the lab, not the vet.   I agree, I can't see why clients should not be made aware of the titre tesing option.  Some vet practises in the UK have started to do this.

>>>Some vet practises in the UK have started to do this<<<

Lets hope we see a lot more offering this service, remember as well you`ll only need to titre every 3yrs as the vax gives guarenteed immunity for 3yrs :)

>you`ll only need to titre every 3yrs as the vax gives guarenteed immunity for 3yrs

I don't think so.  If the vaccine only guarentees immunity for 3 years it can run out any time after the  three years following booster.  How could you assume you have another 3 years when that period has passed, infact how do you know immunity will still be there in another years time after the 3 years has elapsed and no booster has been given?

>>>I don't think so.<<<

Thats you prerogative Isabel :)

I know the other posters understand what I`m talking about.

If you wish to appear to misunderstand, then as I`ve said, thats your right & far be it from me to stand in your way :)

You said you only need to titre test every 3 years that is clearly erroneous and ought to be pointed out.  The guarantee is for 3 years not 6 years.  When would you need to titre test again if immunity (as you would expect) is sufficient at 3 years after last booster?  I think this is a very important point as it exposed the difficulties on relying on titre testing although it appears it doesn't matter if the levels are low anyway :rolleyes:

Isabel you are entitled to think whatever you want, just as everybody else is :)

I have no intention of answering your question.

I would suggest you ask an expert on this matter instead of asking a humble lay person such as me.

Or read up on the matter so you wouldn`t need to ask questions or be confused about it :)

No, only aimed at those who think that vets are anti titre-testing because of the financial side. :) If a vet was purely out to make money then they'd want everyone to titre-test and would then say that boosters were needed anyway. They'd make more money that way! Therefore if they don't send people down that route logically you can rule out financial motives.

It's a whole different matter as to whether or not an owner chooses to vaccinate or booster or whatever. If you can find a vet who doesn't believe 100% that what they advise is in the longterm best interest of the animal in question then they should be reported to the RCVS.

I think the motive is change JG; change can be difficult to accept. 

>If a vet was purely out to make money then they'd want everyone to titre-test and would then say that boosters were needed anyway.

And risk being struck off and having action taken against them for fraud by deception. I don't think so...

>And risk being struck off and having action taken against them for fraud by deception. I don't think so..

Exactly. :) They're not going to risk that so they won't do anything that might bring that upon themselves.

>>>I think the motive is change JG; change can be difficult to accept<<<

Absolutely Spender!!

>>And risk being struck off and having action taken against them for fraud by deception. I don't think so<<<

LOL:D

But you can't rule out financial motives JG if when people ask about titre testing they are given very inflated prices for doing it, especially as in Karen's case where the vet tried to say that the bulk of the money was going to the lab for the test, which seems patently untrue.

Don't think vets would be able to say that boosters were necessary if they weren't following a titre anyway, as I believe you get a certificate from the lab giving their interpretation of the antibody levels.

Did think your last para of previous posting was way over the top JG.  I personally feel the majority of vets do have the health and wellbeing of their clients' animals at heart but I don't see why clients shouldn't be able to question and query what they are paying for or investigate and have input on what they feel is best for their animals.  Maybe working for a vet is making you a bit over sensitive to client input?

>I don't see why clients shouldn't be able to question and query what they are paying for or investigate and have input on what they feel is best for their animals. 

Absolutely. But remember a vet also has to weigh up the client as well as the pet. If a client asks a question the vet should give an honest (if the owner can deal with it) answer.

>Maybe working for a vet is making you a bit over sensitive to client input?

It's a fair assumption, Annie, but actually not true at all, because the vet I work for isn't the one I use to treat my animals! :)

Maybe not, but I bet you see a fair few awkward and unpleasant clients! :D

Oops sorry, went from my email notify which didn't show the first bit of your post!  I agree entirely JG and would certainly want my vet to give his/her honest view but would still expect them to listen to mine and come to a mutually acceptable agreement.  I really like my vet practice because they are happy to do this.

Ain't that the truth! :D It's been a real eye-opener - and not in a good way.

>>>But you can't rule out financial motives JG if when people ask about titre testing they are given very inflated prices for doing it,<<<

At the end of the day vets are in business, thats the bottom line Annie

Yes of course Christine and I'm sure no-one begrudges them a reasonable profit but individuals profiteering like this will just brings the whole profession into disrepute. :(

And sadly thats whats happenning A :(

Am I the only one who can see how the conspiracy terrorists are working? Let's all spread the word that vets are the devil incarnate who're trying to kill our pets so they can make money.   For crying out loud, if anyone's that daft they shouldn't have responsibility of an animal!

I don't think any one is claiming that their vets are the devil incarnate and I certainly don't begrudge paying my vet for her time - but I do think they have a responsibility to let people know of the options available to them, I know of maybe 30 people with dogs that I talk to regularly and only one of them has heard about titre testing and didn't really know what it was.  I know of a few practises locally to me that booster for everything yearly - I can't see why they are doing this other than to make extra money when the manufacturers guidlines for the vaccines state that for at least some of the diseases that they are reccomended every 3 years.  Evidently some vets are charging way over the odds for titre testing.

If people want to spend the extra money on titre testing to find out if they need to vaccinate or not and then pay out for the vaccination if needed, how can that make them not responsible enough to own an animal.  Surely that's putting the interest of your animal first?

Karen

> I know of maybe 30 people with dogs that I talk to regularly and only one of them has heard about titre testing and didn't really know what it was.

I know of roughly that percentage of dog owners who know about chocolate being toxic for dogs. Whose vet told them about that last time they went in? Or do vets make the assumption that owners are reasonably bright? Who wouldn't get aggrieved with a vet who gave them detailed instructions on pet care at every visit? It seems they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm very glad I didn't spend 6 years of my life training to care for animals only for my motives to be mistrusted and myself vilified.

I think vaccination issues are different JG, it obviously wouldn't be plausible for any vet to discuss all the foods, plants etc that are toxic to dogs.  All anyone is saying I think is that titre tests should be explained and offered when vaccines are due, then it's down to the client what s/he decides to do.  Still don't see why you think any expert being questioned by any client should be seen as being mistrusted and vilified.

Please let's not end up getting this thread locked - titre testing is an issue that I'm sure many people are interested in and might want to post on.

I'd love to see a thread which gives the overall feeling that people trust their vets. I'm still waiting though ... :(

Access to the net has probably made us all more questioning JG but given that, I do trust my vet otherwise I would never take my dogs there. :)  Anyone who doesn't trust their vet is likely to move...fast!

You'd hope so, wouldn't you. :) If someone doesn't feel they can ask questions when they're paying for the time they're in the wrong place.

Why don`t you start one & lets see the response you get J/G?

I`ll be the first to post about my vet, I`ll tell you now I think he`s wonderful, love him to bits :D :D

But of course I`d have to tell you about my other one he ripped me off no end.......

So if we don't agree with everything our vet does we're vilifying them??  I don't think the chocolate thing is on along the same lines at all and we're not talking about detailed instructions on general pet care at every visit but details that are relevant to the specific visit. I think if I went to my vets for a visit to do with toxic foods she'd let me know about the most common ones or point me in the direction of somewhere to find out.  If you go to the vets and are given medication say rhymadyl, you get a manufactures leaflet with it telling you of side effects and risks - I think it should be the same for vaccinations, just so that people can be aware of the risks, that their pets don't need to be vaccinated for everything every year and that they can titre test should they wish.  People from all walks of life own pets, including people that aren't maybe as bright as others, people that don't have access to the internet or know about forums such as these to research such info.  I think lots of people rightly or wrongly rely on their vets and assume that if their vet suggests something without giving another option then that's the way it is.

Karen

>>>Vets would actually make more money if everybody titre tested<<<

Yes, a lot more if they`re charging way over £100 for them like OP has been quoted :rolleyes:

There should be a reduction for the 3 vax they don`t have to do annualy, that would go some way to deflect the titre price.

Think the rest of your post is OTT J/G

I have found the same 'why be awkward' attitude when asked about titre testing in vetsa around ehre and them saying Oh it will be much more expecnsive than just going ahead and having the vaccinations which are so safe.

Same thing happened to me too.  After a debate with my vet who didn't appear to be keen to titre test, I was quoted £85.00 per dog.  I too got the feeling he was trying to put me off.  But I was quite happy to take my business elsewhere to another practise who I know titre test without duress if the client asks for it as an option.

Anyhow we went ahead and it cost us £14.10 for taking the blood sample and £46.41 for lab testing per dog.   So, it would have been £60.51 per dog. 

Incidentally, I called my vets last week about Synoquin and on the call I asked the nurse when they were due at which point she told me they were due their full boosters in July.  Grrrrr....

Mine had full boosters in 2004, last year they were way over the required levels for Parvo and Distemper.  Hep was low.  Having got past my vets immediate reaction (they appear to have got very defensive about vac) he said that PI and Hepatitis weren't a concern so we just did Lepto.  I too am seriously thinking if it is worth doing Lepto this year.  It might be worth doing some research on the lifespan and survival conditions for both strains in the UK.  We are continually accessing it, continually researching it, haven't decided if we will titre test or not this year.