I don't think I'm doing the barf right - even after reading Ian Billinghurt's book several times.

Here is what the dogs weigh:
Nutmeg - lab cross border collie cross retriever 20 kgs (was 24kgs)
Saffy - pedigree lab (small, her mum was small) 16kgs (was 20kgs)
Eddie - jack russel 6kgs (was 6.5kgs)

You can see Saffy's ribs and Eddies but Meg is ok as she needed to lose weight. I know this isn't right, you should be able to feel them not see them.
They get a piece of fruit each morning and the evening:
Saffy and Meg get 2 chicken wings and lots of blended veg/Eddie gets 1 and veg.
OR pork chops (2 and 1) and veg
Or liver/kidneys ( a supermarket packet between them) and veg

I give them yoghurt 3 times a week in with the veg and they get egg once a week. They also have a garlic capsule and a codliver oil capsule.

I also buy tripe from PAT which I share out about twice a week.

Where am I going wrong with Saffy?

All help appreciated!

Many thanks

Karen

Hi Karen :)

That doesn't sound like an awful lot of substance if you know what I mean - Other than the pork chops and maybe the tripe, what you are feeding sounds very "lean" (didn't mean for that to rhyme sorry :D). Personally I would ditch the morning fruit and just use it as treats if you really want to feed it. Same with the amount of veg - I only feed it twice a week as, to be honest, I haven't found a great deal of evidence that wolves would eat the stomach of prey very often, if at all.

I feed my Dobe approx 3% of his body weight. I know a lot of people never weigh the food and just judge by what the food looks like but I like to see the numbers! :D Do you know what % you are feeding? In the morning I feed a rmb meal, e.g. chicken wings, chicken backs/carcass, turkey necks, turkey wings, lamb breast, lamb ribs, lamb necks, pork ribs, pork leg (with trotter) and so on. Then in the evening I feed a meat/fish meal, plus extras, e.g. rabbit, turkey, chicken, fresh whole oily fish, tripe, beef, with an egg (twice a week), mixed veg (twice a week), tinned fish (once a week), liver (twice a week), heart (once a week, and also cooked and used as treats), and kidney (once a week). I sprinkle a bit of garlic on about three times a week, but don't supplement other than that.

I would try to feed more variety (slowly introducing), in increasing amounts. It may be useful to work out the % thing if you haven't already. Do you know of Landywoods? That's where I get most of the food from. You really would need a chest freezer though.

I agree with Zarah, I think the morning food should be something like chicken wings and then some sort of meat for dinner with the veg. I feed mine chicken wings in the morning - 7 for 1 borzoi (weighs 49kg), 6 for his brother (42kg),  4 for collie puppy and 3 for adult collie. I don't really feed veg but mine also have a bowl of complete food down all day that they pick at. They have marrow bones at least once a week, whole rabbit at least once a week and the odd deer carcass. On the days they're not having these they share 3lb tripe for tea. They are very active and fit so possibly this amount of food wouldn't suit every dog. The vet commented on Tuesday when the girls were going in to be spayed how slow their heart beats were, and how fit they were :)

I would say as a general rule if your dogs are losing weight step up the food, I base my food on how the dogs look, if one is looking at bit heavier then they get less chicken wings and vice versa.

Thank you both, that was very helpful. I think I will have to invest in a chest freezer. I did have a look at Landywoods site a while ago but to be honest I got a bit confused! I know the minimum order is £50 so what would you typically order? It is very hard to get the extra food you mentioned as our butchers round here are limited in what they can sell and the abbatoirs incinerate everything else. (Some kind of law).

Thanks again,

Karen

Where abouts do you live?  It maybe that you could find someone to order share with?  I know there are lots that do this so as to make things easier

What I find good with Landywoods is that they're pretty much a "One-Stop Shop"   You can get all your types of meat, offal, wings, carcasses, turkey necks, meaty ribs etc from them.  The only other place you would need to get anything would be your fish & any supplements you feed :D

Your butchers being limited by what they can sell ~ Hmmm ;)  If you were to buy some things for yourself from them not only would you "taste the difference" but you'll probably find they'll be a lot more they can then suddenly give or sell to you :D

Hope that helps :)

My local butcher is my brother in law and that is a whole other subject! Which is why I'll try someone else..........

I couldn't find a butcher willing to help either (not even for money!). I get everything I mentioned from landywoods other than the rabbit meat which I get from the freezer section in our pet supermarket (it comes in blocks by Prize Choice), and the offal, because you only give such small amounts, I buy that from the supermarket as there's a minimum amount of each product you have to order from landywoods and I wanted to use the space up for more meats. I chop it up into portions and then freeze in freezer bags. A couple of containers of different types of offal last ages. Also, obviously the extras (egg, any veg, fresh and tinned fish) I just get with our weekly shop.

With Landywoods, you have to order 10lb (or 20lb, 30lb etc) of each of the bone products you want (chicken wings, turkey necks, whatever) and the meats are packed in 1lb bags, in a tray that holds 36lbs. The website says you have to order a 36lb tray of each meat but we've been allowed to order 18lbs of one meat (e.g. chicken and veg) and 18lbs of another (e.g. tripe) to make up a tray. If you look at the price list the prices given are per pound (unless otherwise stated), so 10lb of chicken wings would be £3.50, or 36lb of best minced meat would be £13.68.

I started out by working out 3% of my dogs bodyweight and then worked out what percentage of that should be rmbs, what percentage should be meats, and what percentage should be offal/extras. I then used that to work out how much to buy. I think I probably made it all much more complicated than how other people do it though!

Let me know if you need any help :D

Thank you! I'll hold you to that - but will PM you! Don't want to clog up the board too much. However perhaps others are having these problems so maybe it's a good thing.

Karen xxxxxxxxx

Saffy is looking nervous because I keep staring at her and worrying about her weight!

Keep it on the board, i'm thinking of starting my dogs on BARF, and find this thread very interesting. Haven't done much homework on it yet,so i'm learning loads from these threads.

Jim

Please don't take this the wrong way but to me it looks like the dogs need more & certainly more variety.  I would drop the veg ~ I too used to follow Billinghursts way of feeding veg but on learning more & more came to the conclusion that they really don't need it & in the wild, other than the odd bit of grass & berries, they really wouldn't bother sourcing veg.  I have to say that I've seen no difference in mine since stopping the veg.  They do still get some veg (I know this sounds upside down now :rolleyes: ) but they now only get any left overs I might have.

I feed my dogs twice a day & they get the following; ( / = or)

Breakfast  ~  Meaty chicken carcass / chicken wings / chicken necks / turkey necks / lamb neck / lamb ribs

Dinner  ~  Tripe / Lamb / Beef / Organ Meat, Hearts, lungs etc / Tinned Fish (the hate raw fish?!)
               A tiny sprinkle of Natural Choice Holistic Wholebake
               1 week liver / kidneys
               1-2 week eggs
               1-2 week cottage cheese
               1-2 week live yoghurt

Daily supplements  ~  Fish Body Oil, Evening Primrose Oil, Vitamin E, Garlic, Dorwest Herbs Keepers Mix

I get my meats from Landywoods, carcasses/wings/necks from a Poultry Wholesaler, Ribs & similar from the butchers.  The dogs also always have a marrowbone.

The amounts mine get vary from 2% to 6% bodyweight.  If one is looking a bit podgy then they get cut down, if looking a bit too lean then they get a bit more.

With 3 dogs it would certainly be in your interests to invest in a chest freezer & buy from someone like Landywoods rather than the supermarkets

I hope that helps you a bit :)  It's taken me ages to type this as I've kept being interrupted by the phone :rolleyes:  Ask away if you want to know any more :)

No offense taken at all! I'm very glad for all your helpful comments and advice. I think I got too hung up on the actual "bone" part and blending veg. I'm going to try a different butcher later today - so is it acttually ok to feed pieces of meat, like chicken breast or lamb or pork steaks then? I know it sounds like a stupid question but obviously I want to do what is right.

I phoned Landy's and they do deliver in my area (Cwmbran S wales) but not until late June as that deliver every 4 weeks. So that gives me some time to get some money together for another freezer.

I think I am nervous about the changes as Saffy had major problems with kibble before and is allergic to a lot of the stuff in it. I don't need to worry about her eating as being a lab, anything goes!

I think I will try what you have all suggested but give them veg mixed with an egg,cottage cheese and yoghurt twice a week? How does that soud?
Is the cod liver and garlic oil tablet enough or should I supplement with other things? This is a regular minefield!

Thank you all for taking the time, especially with your interuptions!

Karen xxxxxxxx

It can seem like a minefield at first & I think I probably drove my friend nuts with questions when I first started feeding raw but now I hardly really think about it

Yes it is fine to feed whole chunks of meat, gives the jaws a good work out :D   (No question is a stupid question if you're not sure :D )

One of the puppy owners from my last litter has an older BC who I remember her telling me how she could only eat IAMS as anything else upset her tummy ~ when she had Robbie she decided to also put her older girl over onto raw & tells me she's never looked back & on seeing the dog recently (they live fairly close by) she's looking absolutely fab & can now it seems, eat anything

For your supplements I personally would change the Cod Liver Oil for Fish Body Oil (Omega 3) as it's an active oil & dogs utilise it more easily (it's to do with them converting the oil but I'm rubbish with science so probably rubbish at explaining it!!)  I would also give Vitamin E to balance the FBO.  Garlic, sometimes mine get it fresh but mainly it's tablet/capsule/powder (whichever is on offer) but they get it daily.  I also give them Keepers Mix for kelp, seaweed etc but not everyone gives it.

Twice a week sounds fine for eggs etc but I personally wouldn't give it all in one sitting :)  So say eggs added one day, cottage cheese the next & so on.  If you want to add veg a couple of times a week then that's fine too :)  For me personally, things like eggs etc are just that, an addition, I don't give less of anything else if that makes sense!  Don't forget to have a fish day ~ I use pilchards or sardines in tomato sauce & the dogs love it

Hope that helps :)

Thank you Lyndsay! I don't have a problem getting fish - there is a place near where hubby works who catches and sells his fish as a hobby. (He is retired but wanted to utilise his hobby and why not!)

I have much more of an idea now.............

Karen

Glad to have been of some help   Shout if you need to know anything else :D

Sounds like you need to play with the quantity and perhaps quality if she won't eat more then it will have to be more nutrient dense.

Hi

I dont have the freezer space for a Landys delivery so I buy most of my meat from Tescos, farmfoods and Pets at Home

Tescos value packs of chicken are great as are there chicken wings when you can get them. I get there value mince. I also shop in the freezer shop were I can get lamb mince and turkey mince cheaper Chops ect. Liver and kidneys. The other stuff  comes from PAH

I buy as I need and dont really notice the cost of it. As it is part of my houshold shop as it would be if i was buying tins.

Dont know if you have it in  your area but we have joind Freecycle and was able to pick up a freezer for nothing onit.

Wendy

Oh happy days!!
Just been to a different butcher and I could have kissed him! He sells - get this - hearts, lamb shank bones, turkey legs, chicken legs - I got stacks for £14.05! I weighed it all once I got home, ready to bag up and freeze and realised just how little I feed my dogs, bless them.He also sells bones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He didn't have any today as people have gone a bit mad but will keep me some for Thursday and even asked what I wanted. I am sooooooooooo happy.

Sounds daft I know, but there we are. It has actually taken up quite a bit of freezer space but as hubby has announced we are on a diet :rolleyes: it's salads etc for us. I'll be taking it slowly adding other types of meat as I don't want ££££ coming straight out the other end!

Thank you all for your help - I noted what you said Wendy about the freezer but to be honest the way our house is built there isn't a lot of room for another freezer. I'll get tripe once there is a bit more freezer space :-)

Karen