This research only looks like someone is trying to cherrypick & get the answers it wants ;)

100%

This research only looks like someone is trying to cherrypick & get the answers it wants

Really? If thats the case then please let me know what it is you THINK I want to hear????

Actually, I said I wasn't after opinions and could anyone offer me facts please. This IS research, my very first post clearly states that I have used the net, books, breeders etc etc. This is just another source of information so all bases are covered.

I'm not saying ALL breeders just have a pedigree dog but that is all anyone needs to be a breeder. AND they all started somewhere!! They didn't come out of their mothers womb with a puppy under each arm did they? ;)

Mail order is possible, I would prefer to be able to get it locally but good idea thanks. Still doesn't tell me what nutrition a dog needs though...

I don't work for Iams, or any dog food company but I am 'privvy' if you like to this kind of information, so regardless of whether anyone doubts I know, I do. Fact ;)

Ironically a nutritionalist on my forum just gave me a scientific breakdown of what my type of breed would require as a general rule.

Perhaps 'expert' is not being interpretted in the same way here then, I wasn't really after people being experts on their own dogs because of course they are, same as anyone is an expert about their own speific pet/animal because they know it better than anyone. A vet is what I consider an expert, not with just their own dog or 1 breed of, but with all dogs. Just a shame they are biased towards whoever gives them commision on sales! haha.

I didn't say that our breeders couldn't give us advice or that we doubted them or that they are even wrong, I just asked what large breed puppies actually require, fact, not opinions. Do they need dust to eat?  no. ok,  do they need rubbish to eat? no. ok, do they need protein? yes! Oh, right, how MUCH protein? and so on. do you see what I'm getting at? Perhaps I am not explaining it very well! And I understand that FROM a baseline there will be variation of what each dog individually can cope with/is best on but these dog foods sell for a generic dog market so they must get their % from some kind of facts.

Anyway just seem to be going round in circles and no-one is able to offer any hard fact so I guess champ dog forums isn't the place to ask for information about dogs, only opinions. Pity.

If you have so much information - why are you not sharing your information with us - rather than asking for information from us?

I had been thinking exactly the same - why ask the question i the first place :( Obviously far too experienced for this forum ;)

Daisy

If you have so much information - why are you not sharing your information with us - rather than asking for information from us?

Because as soon as you put any info like that into a post it sways the answers without people even realising. I wanted uninfluenced answers so that I can go away and compare everything I have found and see what the results are.

Don't think thats too strange?

I'm glad you found an answer to your satisfaction, whatever it was :)  Although of course it would hardly be different to the baseline used by all the major manufacturers nutritionists so quite how this will guide you from one food to another I have no idea.
I only hope Champdogs can do a little better for you when you post on the Behaviour board because, quite frankly, with taking on two large puppies at once, nutrition will eventually be the least of your worries :)

:D :D :D

One wonders why the OP hasn't been as fastidious in their research of the problems of having two pups together :(

Daisy

Not being funny but a breeder is just someone that has a pedigree dog thats pregnant and these ones are KC registered!

If you think that you are mixing in the wrong breeder circles without a doubt :rolleyes:

if every dog is totally different then teh breeder is in no better position to guess at a what will individuals from their litter as anyone else, so basically it's a big gamble
  Breeders who are knowledgeable KNOW their lines and there types so nothing is different from litter to litter just fine adjustments

so basically what it comes down to is that no matter what anyone says on here, they are told they are wrong.

Not at all the only people that say this is people that don't want to hear what they are being told

And it's not about not trusting the breeders advice,

I have never ever bought a dog from someone I didn't 100% accept what they said as they way to feed that puppy. If you honestly feel you should then being 100% honest with you I wouldn't be buying a puppy..

You may not 100% like what you hear all the time on here but it is 100% honest advice.

We don't say things just so you will like them.

OK, so if the Kennel Club list KC approved breeders, how can you ever possibly know that  breeder is good other than that and the fact they have healthy dogs and pups? I didn't say ALL BREEDERS were like that, all I said was that as a base, all anyone needs to be a breeder is that. Can you see the difference? I could breed my dogs and list myself with KC and then, bang I'm a breeder- see?

No, I don't just want to hear what I want to hear or I would be saying I'm using X and you're all wrong for not using it, not what I am doing is it? I've not said that any of you are wrong in what you are saying have I? Just that actually my initial question has not been answered- admin stated it is because there are no experts here, so fine. No worries.

The frustration here is that only 1 person has even half answered that actual question that I posed originally, and that was to try and find white papers (effectively) on it, which I will try again to do.

If nothing is different from litter to litter how do you ever end up with dogs with upset stomachs then? because you'd all feed what the breeder says and that the end of it? So somewhere theres a huge contradiction.

It's not about feeding any specific puppy. It's about scientific fact, I'm sure that the dog would be fine on what it's on, but as i say it's a pet and we'd rather they were both on the same as long as they are doing well on it. So we would like to change at least one, if we are doing that they we need to be sure that we know what to look for when we read ingredients on packets.

I don't dislike anything I hear here apart from when assumptions are made when actually people know very litte about a particular situation.

It's about us understanding WHY the breeder says to feed X. Not just waying "uh ok then i will feed my dog that" maybe I'm naturally inquisitive and like to know how things work, and actually, yes I am very analytical like that.

Why don't you just ASK breeders WHY they are feeding whatever it is they are feeding?

After all - if you trust them enough to buy puppies from them............

They said exactly what you all did- because it's good quality and for large breed puppies.

that was to try and find white papers (effectively) on it, which I will try again to do.

Then try The Royal Veterinary College.  They may be able to give you a definitive answer - but I doubt if! :rolleyes:

Good idea, one of the best suggestions from here actually thanks.

"OK, so if the Kennel Club list KC approved breeders, how can you ever possibly know that  breeder is good other than that and the fact they have healthy dogs and pups? I didn't say ALL BREEDERS were like that, all I said was that as a base, all anyone needs to be a breeder is that. Can you see the difference? I could breed my dogs and list myself with KC and then, bang I'm a breeder- see?"


Erm you are doing all this research about food if you had applied more effort into researching a breeder you wouldn't come out with that statement!

Am i the only one that did a good few years research? going to shows? talking to breeders/owners? etc etc etc

Any food manufactured for use in dogs has to be fit for it's basic purpose, as of course the Pet Fod industry like the human food industry is regualted by law to protect consumers.  So with any food you can be sure it will at the very least be adequate, and then which ones are more than that is anyones opinion/guess and individual dogs reactions to their diet.

Any food manufactured for use in dogs has to be fit for it's basic purpose, as of course the Pet Fod industry like the human food industry is regualted by law to protect consumers.  So with any food you can be sure it will at the very least be adequate, and then which ones are more than that is anyones opinion/guess and individual dogs reactions to their diet.

That is also good, thanks.

Think about it this way - what is the 100% perfect dietary balance for all human beings, with the correct percentages of protein, carbohydrate, fat, minerals ... ? It's no easier with any other species.

Think about it this way - what is the 100% perfect dietary balance for all human beings, with the correct percentages of protein, carbohydrate, fat, minerals ... ? It's no easier with any other species

I never said ALL dogs though? I said, a baseline for large breed puppies specifically and WHY they need that. If you ask a human baby nutritionalist they will tell you the baseline for what X baby needs.

And even an adult- they can tell you exactly what balance of carbs/fat/protein someone needs from their height/build/level of fitness etc. Go to any good gym even and they will tell you!

Think this is a case of This Responsible Owner Likes Leading questions ;)

Think this is a case of This Responsible Owner Likes Leading questions

Sorry don't understand?