If you wed on a football pitch you would be getting married in a civil ceremony - not a religious one :)

I'd have to say that I think the vicar is just right in this case.

I am not religious, neither is my OH (although he comes from a very religious family). I would never in a million years entertain the idea of marrying in church, even though it is very much what my OH's family would want. I would feel like the biggest hypocrite that ever lived.

To me, marriage is a legal thing - being legally recognised as a couple. But then, marriage in general has never been high on my list of priorities. It is my thinking that those who marry in church do so because they wish their union to be recognised in the eyes of God as well as legally. Why would I want a God I personally don't even believe in to recognise my marriage

" I will get married in a church even though Im not religeous. "

What a mockery this makes of religion. :rolleyes:

Marriage in church is one of the solemn sacraments that should not be devalued/demeaned/diluted.  It interests me how people adopt a "self service cafeteria" approach to areas like this and treat the Church as a sort of "pick 'n mix" counter at Woolworths.

Oh I will take a church wedding, but I will leave practising a faith, keeping the 10 Commandments etc etc, they do not suit.

Religion is a package deal.  Fortunately there are many and within them, many "branches" to suit your own particular tastes. 

Getting married in a church IS all about God (with a "G") and your post Tracey eminently demonstrates exactly WHY it is unacceptable to have this attitude about Church Weddings.

I think the phrase "style over content" is very apt here....................... you are placing importance on the packaging rather than the content of the service. 

I'm behind the vicar in this. When I married (in church) the vicar held several evening classes with the couples who were due to marry in the next 3 months, to discuss the meaning of marriage in a Christian context. We were both baptised as children, but as long as one of the partners was already baptised then the vicar would marry the couple in church. If neither partner was, then he wouldn't.

Personally I would have doubts about any vicar who makes baptism (either infant or adult) a condition of being married in church. 
What about those who are baptised as children who go through their entire lives with no Christian beliefs at all ?  And others who were not baptised who come to a belief as they're growing up or as adults ?

both me and a friend got married in 2004 ( september and october) my friend got married in church all she had to do was go once every fortnight for 6 months the vicar had no problems with it. unfortunatly i got married in a registar office as my now husband had been married before( i would have loved to get married in church)

I am with the vicar on this.
Why do people think they have the right to the church just for 'high days'and holidays. Yes its there for all people but not on 'their terms'.
They need to know what they are doing and asking. Its not just a' cool location' for your wedding.

>I have dreamt of a big white wedding ever since I was little. I dont go to church and my OH is the biggest non believer you will ever find but I want to get married in a chuch. I dont think this is wrong. Everyone is entitled to get married where they like. Getting married in a church doesnt have to be about god, it can be about the ceremony. Personally, I think civil weddings dont last as long as church ones and dont carry the 'realness' that church weddings do so I will get married in a church even though Im not religeous.

Er, hello???

I'm sorry, Tracey but can you not see that a church wedding is all about religion? And of course the ceremony has to be "about God", that's the whole point of it!!!! 

I'm not religious either (we're all lapsed!) but for sure, I wouldn't dream of having a church wedding since I would be making a mockery of the service, the people who do have faith and the sanctity of the church.

If you want a big white wedding fine, there are many lovely venues which are licensed to carry out marriages and for sure, it is utter nonsense to suggest that civil marriages are less likely to last than those held in church. Especially since, if we take your logic, you wouldn't actually believe in the vows you were making because you aren't religious.

So yes, I'm absolutely with the vicar on this one and I support all priests and ministers who aren't prepared to have their churches used by people who want "cool locations" or fantasy weddings!  Marriage, in case you hadn't realised, is about a lot more than flouncing around like the Queen of Sheba on your wedding day!

I too am with the vicar on this - and I'm a total non-christian!  It would be like asking for a pagan handfasting (wedding) when you don't follow a pagan path!  It might be lovely but there are many places you can get married now without making a mockery of someone's religion by going along with it just for your 'big day'.

Debs

When I was married 24 years ago parental  pressure to marry in church was HUGE, we would have been happier with a registry office wedding and small reception or even jumping over a broom! :)  The parents won, but we absolutely refused to have a wedding with full mass, we felt it would have been hypocritical, we both follow the christian faith but don't feel the need to go to church regularly.  My inlaws were especially gutted :rolleyes:  A few years later my Bro in law got married and his fiancee had to convert to his religion, and be baptised in order to have the full wedding mass :rolleyes:  she never went to church after that :(  Ten years and 2 children later they divorced, because she didn't want to look after him as he was terminally ill As far as I'm concerned their wedding was a triumph of show over meaning :(

Seems to me that today it's all about the wedding day (where, how much spent, what limo's etc. :( ) and not at all about the marriage, I've known quite a few 'BIG' weddings end 6 months to 2 years later, since I married :(  :(

You're so right, dill. 
One question I think all vicars/priests/registrars should ask engaged couples is 'If something prevented you from having a big traditional wedding and all that goes with it (flowers, cars, photographers, reception, honeymoon abroad etc), would you still want to marry each other ?'

That's an excellent point, tyby. :) The wedding is just one day - the marriage is supposed to be for the rest of your life.

Edit: I wonder if the saying "A marriage is for life, not just for the wedding day" will catch on? ;)

Edit: I wonder if the saying "A marriage is for life, not just for the wedding day" will catch on? ;-)


Nah JG because the Dogs Trust will stop it! :rolleyes:  :D They legally stopped the houserabbit people using the phrase "A rabbit is for life, not just for easter". :rolleyes:

How can they do that??

>Seems to me that today it's all about the wedding day (where, how much spent, what limo's etc.  ) and not at all about the marriage< (not sure if I've done the quotes thingy correctly)

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment!! In today's society it seems that the emphasis is on having a glamorous and extravagant wedding, with little thought to the whole 'in sickness and in health' meaning of the vows.

If and when myself and my partner marry, we will not have a religious ceremony, as we feel it would be hypocritical. He would consider himself to be a non-active Christian (he doesn't attend church, and to be honest, isn't the stongest believer you'll ever meet), whereas I am not religious at all, although I have no problem with any religion, just when people's attitudes are taken to extremes, or forced upon you. We will have a civil ceremony, probably in my parent back garden with a marquee, close friends and family.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the appeal of having a big white wedding, but when it comes to costs of well over £10,000 for an average wedding, well frankly, I would rather spend £2-£3000 on the wedding, and have £7000 knocked of my mortgage!!! but maybe that's just me :)

Claire
x

I was meantto be getting married last August. I refused to get married in a church because I am not the slightest bit religeous and nor was my partner, I always thought that I would feel a complete hypocrit if I was to get married in a church. There are many other beautiful places to have a wedding, I picked out a lovely place, was a shame it never happened because it was so lovely :)

I felt like a hyocrit getting married in a chapel & said so at the time (probably not to the vicar though!) but bowed down to pressure from family. Years later I became a christian & my OH & I were baptised together in a double ceremony - full water baptism. Strange how things turn out.

I got married last July, I always thought I would get married in a church even though I stopped going when I was 5, but OH has no interest in churches or religions whatsoever.  He was keen to entertain the idea at first for a nice wedding and like the idea that the church in town is where Pocahontas is buried - something to talk about in years to come - but balked at the thought of having to go every two weeks for six months.

Eventually we got married in a hotel - I had to be seriously talked into this because the hotel had rather a plain boring room for the ceremony, and the surrounding accommodation was very ugly, but it had a lovely marquee for the reception.:-D  As it turned out, the day went brilliantly, you have your own area in the grounds for the whole wedding (ceremony room, reception, toilets, bar), completely away from the rest of the hotel, the food was fantastic, the staff were better than fantastic and couldn't have done more for us and everyone said they had a fabulous time so I had to concede that it was a good choice.

I think all has been said about Tracey's views on getting married in a church so I won't go further than that, I think we'd have a lot of trouble finding someone who agrees with you Tracey!  However, I will say that a civil ceremony is very much what you make it.  You still have vows, you still promise that "with my body I honour you, all that I am I give to you" etc. etc.  We went for the minimal service, including just the required parts by law, however a civil ceremony can be very much tailor-made, you can choose your own vows, you can have guests give readings and poems, you can have musical interludes and orchestras - it can last just as long or longer than a church ceremony - I think you'll find that if you don't understand all the elements of a religious ceremony and have no interest in them, you will find a church ceremony can be quite boring.  But then, of course, your photos won't look as good...

sorry, just had to contradict a few points!

"Everyone is entitled to get married where they like"

No they're not, which is why you can't even have a civil ceremony where you like but only where the law has sanctioned.  But I guess you mean you want the right to get married in any sanctioned building.  Church-going Christians have the right to get married in a church, why should other people have that right?  The church isn't OWNED by the tax-paying (or non tax-paying!) common man, it is owned by the Christians.  Even the Head of the Church of England couldn't allow her son to get married in church, 'entitlement' doesn't come into it.

Also:

"civil weddings dont...carry the 'realness' that church weddings do"
That's the funniest bit.  People don't like civil ceremonies as they don't feel married "in the eyes of God."  Yet you don't 'really' believe in God and your OH doesn't at all.  The only thing that makes church weddings 'real' to those that choose this, is the fact that they are making their vows IN FRONT of God and therefore a civil wedding wouldn't seem 'real'.  That is the whole point of a church ceremony, to make those vows in front of God, its the whole reason that church wedding ceremonies exist in the first place!  So to say that only a church wedding would be 'real' for you and yet say that this wedding wouldn't be about God is more than a bit contradictory.

Sorry I'm not digging at you, in fact I think you do want to get married in a church for the right reasons secretly, you just don't realise it or are justifying marrying your OH there when he isn't religious.  But I couldn't help but comment on a few things you've said, I think you just need to think about your argument and reasons a bit more ;-)

Can I add to this post about schools...I know someone who has become very involved in their local church and has done for several years, openly says its only for getting the children into good schools otherwise they would have to go to the same as everyone else!
It worked and they both 'got in'. I find this more distasteful than anything. I can understand the dream wedding scenario to a point. Although as I said I dont agree. But this is so deceitful. They are lying to their so called church freinds and theri children...what values do they really have?

I'm inclined to agree, and it is distasteful.  But it could have its benefits - my mum did sort of the same thing with my christening, CoE wouldn't do it as she didn't go to church (a phase they went through in 1975!), but the Methodist church agreed providing she agreed to bring me every Sunday thereafter.  She did, until we moved away when I was 5.  And though I've rarely been to church since (other than with Brownies, wedddings etc), it still set me up with a religious 'inclination', I'm not dedicated, or a church-goer but I still feel guilt if I blaspheme, feel guilty I didn't marry in a church and still said my prayers every night until a few years ago when I realised it was doing me more harm than good by giving me nightmares after praying for all my family to be looked after each night, but that's another story!! I used to read my Child's Bible in bed and tried hard to understand it years after I stopped going to Sunday School. As my parents never went to church I probably would have grown up with hardly any religious knowledge or inclination at all, but the early start I got at Sunday School probably did me a favour.  So I agree with you in that the parents reasons are so wrong, but it could be of benefit to the children - they won't know their parents reasonings, but they will grow up involved with the church and a church school so try to see the positive that it could be very beneficial to them - and hopefully they'll have better values than their parents do!

too late to edit but I should have put the church is owned by God...and/for his followers, rather than just 'the Christians'.

I spent my education years in a strict catholic convent and decided that the beliefs of the catholics where not my own. Twenty years ago I decided not to marry in a church and my OH was not religious at all. My OH convinced me to speak to the local C of E priest, so I did. We had long conversations about the christian faith and the benefits the priest felt I would gain spiritually marrying in his church. My family (on my dad's side) flew over from Italy and were horrified that I did not marry in a catholic church. I was so pleased that I did marry in church as I found it a wonderful, spiritual occasion.I am still not a church goer, but I do not feel it is important to me. My faith is personal and private and I have no need to share it with others. Maybe it would benefit other couples to speak to the local priest to discover the true meaning of marrying in a church, so they may make an informed decision and not just get wrapped up in floaty dresses and what flowers they want down the aisle. Would it not be God's will to have as many people married in his eyes? :)    

I think you'll find, jess, that most people who attend church because they're followers of God, also follow Christ.

What I meant was, I've put that the Church belongs to Christians rather than just citizens who pay taxes - you don't assume a right to everything because you are born, that sort of thing I'm getting at - when really to be more specific I should have said it belongs to God.  Or Christ.  But I didn't want to offend anyone by saying it belongs to Christians when those who are more devout would like to say it belongs to God and/or Christ.  That its His house and doesn't really even belong to his Followers  Hope that clarifies - just trying to cover all angles!

I'm not religious, I never have been however I have religous friends.  I have never, that I can remember, wanted my wedding in a church!  To me a church is somewhere where people who believe in God go, so why should I go there? 

And why does a big white wedding have to be in a church?

JMPO :)

Exactly, I had a chapel-length veil, old-fashioned car, 3 bridesmaids, 2 pageboys, 2 ushers... :-D

*reminisces back to last July*

When one has a baby baptised, the parents and Godparents make promises to bring the child up as a Christian, to teach him/her the Christian faith, as well as just naming the child.

Many churches offer a blessing service for parents who are not active church members, or people who feel that they cannot make this commtment, but who do want a church service.

I know of many friends who have not been able to be married in church, although they are active church members, because of the divorce of one or other of the parties, but who have gone on to have the marriage blessed in church.

Margot

there are so many beautiful beautiful venues,lincesed for marriages nowdays,i just cant understand why a non christian would want to get married in a church

usually too dark inside, usually really cold, usually they dont allow confetti on the church grounds & you could even get grave stones in your wedding pics!

clearly i can understand why its important for a "believer" to get married in gods house,with gods blessing...but anyone else?

Also nowdays its not just a choice betwwen a church & a awful clinical reg office, so many really stunning venues available.

now .....if i can just find someone (anyone) to marry me!!!! ;)

Also nowdays its not just a choice betwwen a church & a awful clinical reg office, so many really stunning venues available.

We got married in ordinary clothes in a Registry office with just the parents and witnesses along. Neither of us is a believer and despite pressure from the mothers (neither father belived either) we could not concience a Church wedding when we don't believe or attend. A very simple marriage in the Registry office was all we wanted because we were already totally committed to each other and so the actual getting married bit was only a legality in our eyes, and not some big day of making a committement. A crowd of unexpected friends met us (unexpectedly) outside the Registry office, then we went for lunch with the parents and winesses and had a party for all our friends that evening in the local pub/hotel that evening. The whole thing cost less than £200, a great day was had by all, and something must have worked as we are still together and happy alsmost 30 years later. :)

we got married in a lovely registry office, with our closest friends and family - 35 of em LOL
we went for a meal after and it was xmas eve and it was lovely :D

When you get married in church, you are in the house of God and you swear an oath before him.

An oath is not a promise, a church is not a venue and the Lords name must never be taken in vain. If you commit adultery like Prince Charles did or abandon your spouse, you have broken that oath and cannot remarry. He had to take an oath of repentance for his sin, to marry Camilla in a civil ceremony and only then they were blessed. But if Diana had lived, it would not of happened at all. It is a deep and meaningfull ceremony and if you are not a believer, then I ask, what are you doing there in the first place? It is an honor, not a right.

I can't understand why anyone would want to make vows infront of God and kneel in prayer to Him if they don't believe!  Especially infront of all their friends and family.

I was baptised at the same time my children were christened as I felt that was my commitment to my faith.  When I married for the second time, my vicar agreed that we could be married in church.  He was also there to support me when my marriage ended in disaster.  My faith was also there to support me too.

It is sad when people take the Lord's name in vain. 

Life has certainly changed in the last thirty years or so. Once upon a time all people were entitled and expected to marry in their local parish church (unless they were of a different belief). No-one questioned people's actual beliefs - most people went to church because it was the thing to do and if you lived in the country and the squire was your employer/landlord, then if you didn't turn up at church on a Sunday then you could be in trouble :D Now all things are different, but there is still a legacy from our past. When I married 25 years ago I wanted to marry in the church that my parents and sister had married in and I had attended and taught in the Sunday School (not C of E). The minister changed and was not happy to marry us as OH freely admitted that he wasn't a fee-paying Christian :( The only alternative at the time was a registry office. The minister had a change of heart and we were married, much to my parents' relief. However, we have not had our children christened as I knew that the minister would not do it and my husband would not lie in promising to bring them up in the church.

Daisy

OMG peeps please chill out

My OH exchanged vows in the middle of the desert & the Rabbi(Reform)& everyone else were in our forces fatigues. Not very glam or traditional, but as we were on the eve of the 7 day war we wanted to pledge to each other.

Our relationship is not recognised by law in the UK as the Rabbi is not a Orthodox Rabbi, but we never needed to go through a civil ceremony. Even Orthodox marraiges don't have to be in synagogues all you need is the Rabbi( & a few friends who always seem to appear)

I can't see the problem in people getting married in church as all CoE vicars are the equivalent of a registrar & several other christian religions' priests are also qualaified registrars. I find it quite odd that divorce is such a bete noire amoungst some Christian sects as after all Christ was born a jew ! & judaism has always recognised that relationships do end(easier for the non Orthodox women to do BTW). As to the vows etc well each to their own.

A friend of mine's daughter got married in Aust on the beach wearing beach clothes & then they all went sufing & had a barbie. No religious ceremony etc but they did decide to go for a private blessing with just their close family there

Personally I like the low key cheaper option to the glam & glitter(& occasion hypocrisy)of a traditional wedding, but if we all liked the same thing what a boring world it would be

I was brought up for 16 years as a Christian, before finding out my mother was not my mother ! I had been forced to go to sunday school, baptised etc even though my father's wife rarely went to church ! my Bat Mitzvah was quite late in my life !

"I find it quite odd that divorce is such a bete noire amoungst some Christian sects as after all Christ was born a jew ! & judaism has always recognised that relationships do end"

Yes Judaism does recognise that relationships do end but as you rightly pointed out, orthodox women can be prevented from remarrying according to their faith if their ex husbands refuse to provide them with a "Get" according to Jewish law; Christians abide by the laws set down in their bible just as Jews practise their faith according to the mitzvahs set down for them in the Torah.

As you say each to their own.

ooh isn't it amazing that religion and religious (non)beliefs can cause such an uproar on the board.  it really does incite heated debate amongst all the CD'ers :rolleyes:

I wouldn't have said this was heated ;) - just an ordinary debate about something that's important to a lot of people. :)

Debate is good :D

Seems to be quite factual and friendly actually :D

Daisy

"ooh isn't it amazing that religion and religious (non)beliefs can cause such an uproar on the board. "

Er hardly amazing, and I must have missed the "uproar"?

it really does incite heated debate amongst all the CD'ers "

I cannot see where anyone has got even warm let alone heated.........

If you think THIS was a heated debate you better get your insulated knickers on when we actually Do have one :D :P

Interesting that Jews do no believe that Jesus was the Son of God! Just a good teacher or Prophet! And yes I can speak from both sides as I had a Jewish upbringing and am now a Christian!

I believe people DON'T have a right to marry in Church if they don't believe or have a faith! Why should they? It's hypocrysy at it's best! The World today is all about Rights...but leaves out the Responsibility!!

The Church service has at the heart of it GOD! Whichever denomination you are. There are some Ministers that are more lenient with people who have made mistakes and repent them, for we are all sinners in one form or another! However, what is the point of marrying under the banner of God if he has no part in your life?!

Didn't you girls know?? I'm a HOT BUMPY CHICK! Maybe that's where the heat is at!!!! :D :D :D

I got married first time in church under great pressure by everybody and hated it :rolleyes: I didn't and don't believe in God and remember so well my God Father with me at 9am the wedding morning giving me the 'I am your God Father religion' talk. I had only back at home for three hours as had been out on my hen night

I just said to him and was honest that I didn't believe in anything to do with what he said but did realise he loved me and that was what mattered

Anyway the marriage was a joke really and all the vows etc meant nothing really when I look back :)

We then got Flo Baptised again under great pressure :rolleyes: ( You ought to see the photos of me as I looked although I was at a funeral :( )

Anyway years on I have been strong enough to voice my own views and I am a non believer but do respect everybodies views (so long as they do not harm people ) but will stand by what I feel :)

My second marriage was at a super hotel performed by a Registrar with close family members and a few very close friends :) It meant a billion times more to me as we were able to organise it all to what we wanted including all the words :)

When Indi arrived we wondered what we would like to do and tried to arrange a Humanist naming ceremony which we postponed a year or so ago due to too many rellies being on holiday :rolleyes:

We will do it but we want to make sure we have for Indi the same as 'God Parents' which are called 'Responsible Adults' (The people we have asked are far from it but we would trust her life with them and know they really know the way we would want our little girl brought up :D )

Conclusion why get married in church if you are a non believer Tradition is not a reason IMHO.

>Conclusion why get married in church if you are a non believer  Tradition is not a reason IMHO.

In a nutshell, Lucy!!

Oh, and for the person who thought this was a heated debate, try asking how old your husband should be when he's neutered and whether or not you should serve Pedigree Chum vol au vents at the reception. ;)

Oh, and for the person who thought this was a heated debate, try asking how old your husband should be when he's neutered and whether or not you should serve Pedigree Chum vol au vents at the reception.;)

ROFLMAO @ Roz

pmsl @ pedigree chum vol au vents!

When i marry OH (if i havent buried him under the patio by then - if we ever get a patio..)

It will NOT be in a church or chapel or any other religious place - i am not religious, he is not religious and yeah, some churches are nice and pretty, but im not saying ANYTHING 'in the presence of God' because i do not believe.

This is of course causing a slight friction with his parents (mine couldnt give a stuff tbh), as despite being totally non religious themselves, they are very much 'do it this way because thats the way its done' people. Grr.

I think we might sneak off, get married in jeans n tshirts, get p!ssed in the pub and tell everyone after...... seems so much simpler and cheaper!
Its an important day in someones life, their wedding day. But what happens afterwards is the most important thing, not a £1000 or more dress like a meringue or a pretty church or expensive vol au vents.....

Em