Well, not us actually, but our beautiful red and white BC pup, currently 8 months and in her first season.

She's KC reg and we're not talking of this season........Probably at 18 mths/2 years. We need to find out where to get some good advice.

Do we need to get ourselves a kennel/breeders name to continue the KC reg'.......should we show her/get her involved in agility etc to give her more 'credibility' as a dam. (...her pedigree is strong on her fathers side but a little lacking on her mothers - she only got shown as the cabaret act!)......what about CEA etc - we're told she's automatically clear because of checks in her lineage - but how does this apply to her pups?

Questions, so many questions.....can anyone point me in the right direction for some answers?

Ta

When I get my next BC I will be looking for a pup from parents who have achieved something - won in shows, obedience, good workers, agility dogs etc etc ... I would not buy from a pure pet so sounds like you had a good idea in planning to do something with her.

A kennel name isn't necessary but its nice :)
Pups would still need eye testing for is it PRA??? and of course she'd need hipscoring !!

What is her name?

CEA. if her mother & father have been tested GENTICALLY clear by a DNA test then she can only be clear. however if you are thinking about pups you have "her husband" to consider, & what tests he has, OR you could produce "carrier" puppies (ie they could carry the gene & pass it on)

KC reg. you do not need to have a affix/kennel name to register the pups. although it is nice to i think!!!

Personally i think she should do something, agility.obedience,show etc. It depends on what "market" you think you will get your puppy enqueries from.

You should get her hipscored too, after shes a year old, & hearing tested.

If you think youd like to produce an "agilty" litter from her,id advise you to look at a agility dog for her husband, or a breed dog that throws good agility pups.

can i be nosey & ask what breeding she is?

Hi Scrums

You are quite rightly looking into the prospect of breeding your BC carefully.

There are a lot of things to take into account.  Are you at home all day? Are you in a position to take back a puppy if the new owner can't cope with it, bearing in mind they often come back as 12-18 month untrained holigans.

You can register an Affix with the Kennel Club to have your chosen affix infront of the registered name.  Details on KC website.

You shouldn't breed until she is at least 2 years, but first litter should be before 4 years.

She will need to be hipscored.

If she is CEA clear by parentage, the parents should be on a database   http://bordercolliehealth.com/CEAdatabase.html If they are not shown, ask to see the certificates.  To ensure your puppies will be clear you will need to choose a stud dog that has been tested or lineage clear.

You need to know if she is show quality, if so the best way of improving her lines is to show her and get the opinions of experienced breeders as to her faults and what to look for in a stud dog to strengthen those and one that will be compatable to her lines.

There is nothing stopping you doing agility or obedience, but she would have to excel to prove herself in the sport.

There is a good book to read called The book of the bitch, very useful to give you all the general information you need, but it is not breed specific.

I would go along to a few shows just to look at the dogs on show and talk to people in general.

If you want to PM me (click on my name, then on message) telling me whereabouts you live, I can let you know your nearest show where you will find a lot of Border Collies entered. 

There are loads of other things to take into account, but this should start you off.

Sandra

I

>ups would still need eye testing for is it PRA???<

The puppies can't be eye tested for PRA but the bitch must be & a certificate  isn't issued until BCs are two years old. Of course by the time your bitch is 2 they might(I hope they have)a DNA test for PRA)

Just checked that site - thanks for the link, mum is a CEA carrier and no record of dad....that doesn't sound too good to me ?

Thanks to all for the very helpful info'

Oh Dear Your bitch  will need to be DNA tested then before you consider breeding from her

I'm having my puppy bloods taken for DNA testing this friday He's from generations of clinically clear eye tested dogs(he's ISDS reg & you cannot register puppies if the parents are over 2 & not clinically free from PRA & CEA)but it doesn't stop me worrying until I get results back !

Hey what breeding is your bitch?

If you want to PM me the sire and dam I might be able to help you further.

It is not the end of the world if your bitch is a carrier, you will just have to be very careful with the dog you use and endorse the puppys pedigrees with regard to new owners breeding from them.

ok you must defintally get your bitch DNA tested for CEA in that case. if shes a carrier you must only use a CLEAR dog , he will need to be DNA tested too.

this DNA test hasent been out for long, & some breeders have been abit slow off the mark.

there was a old test done at the vets, but it cant spot the carriers.

Firstly, many thanks to all who've posted on our thread - it's helped a lot 

Ive done some checking up on CEA and whilst I don't pretend to have much of an idea on the scientific bits of it - I do understand now the importance of if not breeding it out, at least trying to do better than contain it.

The reason I couldn't find our pups dad on the database was of course the fact that both of his parents were clear, so therefore he's clear. Pup's mum and g grandmother (fathers side) are carriers. I believe that our odds are 50/50 that she'll be a carrier or clear. We'll definitely get a DNA test before breeding and as someone pointed out, even if she's a carrier - if she's bred with a clear dog,  that's still a possibility.

Thanks again.

Sorry, me again........

I have it in writing from the breeder...."As dad is genetically clear from CEA/CH (his parents have both been DNA tested and are normal) none of his puppies can have CEA"

Is this correct - even though mum is a carrier?

Yes only Carrier to another carrier or affected can produce affecteds.  Of course ytou will produce carrier pups too.

Presumably you mean if she is actually a carrier - doesn't she have that 50/50 chance of being clear?

Here is the breakdown of what is expected to make it a bit clearer for you.

Clear X Clear = 100% CEA Clear puppies
Clear X Carrier = on average, 50% Clear, 50% Carriers
Clear X Affected = 100% Carriers
Carrier X Carrier = on average, 25% Clear, 50% Carriers, 25% Affected
Carrier X Affected = on average, 50% Affected, 50% Carriers
Affected X Affected = 100% Affected

You don't have to wait to get the DNA test done you can have a dog done of any age hence my 8 month having his test this week

Don't forget it's not just CEA there is still PRA & HD & of course PRA cannot be tested for until dogs are 2 years old which is why no BC should be bred from until they are at least 2 years old

This gives you until then to show her, do obedience, do agility etc with her & also to learn about the lines behind your bitch to select a suitable stud dog for her

My puppies mum hasn't been shown etc but she is a working BC & a brilliant one at that & has had her pedigree researched to ensure this & the choice of sire was the culmination of a breeding plan which has covered many years. The fact that the breeder never had to advertise the puppies & could have sold the litter several times over speaks for itself. I consider myself privileged to be allowed to own my boy. His parents are of course from generations of clear eye tested dogs & both have current eye tests & hips scores under the breed mean & median

Whether he is ever bred from is of no importance to me I consider our relationship to be more important that any puppies he may or may not produce, of course a dog is not going to be at risk like a bitch is whilst she is in whelp

These articles will give plenty of food for thought, even though they are slanted for the US situation:

http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/breedercomparison.htm and http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/index.html

hello evrybody, I have a female pitbull (showtype) and my friend wants to stud it with his male bull mastiff. I just would like to know if anybody from here could give me a good advice about the crossbreeding because I am having second thoughts about it. And does age affect the mating status of male mastiff because we are not sure how old is the mastiff. Thanks and more power

I presume that you are not in the UK as pitbulls aren't a breed anymore, they've been banned.

You should not be crossing your dog either and if you are in the UK then you have an illegal dog !

If you have a good quality American Staffordshire terrier that you are showing then shy on earth would you wnat to waste her potential by making crossbred pups???? 

Surely your aim should be to maintain and improve ehr bred.  Look at the links to the articles I have already posted on this thread.

:)

Hello everyone.  I have just stumbled onto the forum site - So virgin user!

I have got a lovely BC bitch who i have started showing, with some brilliant results.
I am intending breeding from her, she has just had her second season, so early days yet. I obviously will be getting various tests etc carried out. I have been told that there is someone who carries out hip (Southampton area) without the need for anesthetics, any clues?
I agree with the thought that a dog with a proven show/agility background is beneficial with rehoming. I'm also enjoying checking out possible partners for my little girl at the shows we are attending and have met some really nice helpful people. I think it is really important to take your time when choosing the stud dog, my BC is very feminine and i'd like to keep that in her line.

Is anyone going to Manchester?

I am at manchester but on the 20th (not sure when BC are on)

BC's are on the Saturday the 21st and I will be there with my young bitch

209 entries!!!
What class(es) are you entered in?  Maybe we could say hello.

Fizz will be in Post grad bitch and yes will be delighted to say hello :D and chat BC's

Only 209 288 in cavaliers as usual :D LOL

If it was a different judge BC's would have been much higher :rolleyes:

LOL I know what you mean I think I'll change(not) to a less popular breed ;) like Charlies or Paps or maybe persuade the KC that smooth BC's are a different breed like Smooth Collies :D

Do you have two judges MM?  We only get two at Crufts, I really think we should have them at most General Champ shows now.

We nearly always get two judges so it usually all over & done with by 2 as they don't do much gaiting ;) mind you 288 is not that big especially as one is foreign(the bitch judge) it's usually around 300 & Crufts of course is huge

I've always though BC's should have two judges

Did you know Sylvia Kolkowski is showing her dog in breed(well her son or a friend handles for her)she's not able to do obedience since her accident He's done quite well I think

No, I didn't know that.  I will look out for her, not going to Manchester though.

Wish we were over by 2pm :rolleyes:  I would go to a few more if I could get away a bit earlier for the long drive home.

He won limit dog at the last Scottish show & her son whose never won at a champ show before never went in for the challenge :rolleyes:men eh ?

Wow, got his stud book number too.  If they do Scotland then that is probably how I haven't bumped into them as I live in Kent.

Well Sylvia lives in West Yorks so she's in the middle & she's been doing only a few shows but she will be at Crufts no doubt I'm undecided on which day to go as I want to see Jackie & Ethan in the Obedience(dog ticket) & Speedy the Cairn in the World Cup plus one or two other LOLOLOLOl

Don't forget the shopping inbetween.  I should try and get a good deal on a four day break LOL

I would like to see the obedience championships too, but we are on Thursday and I am staying over Wednesday night to avoid the rush hour traffic.

cant wait to see ethan baby work at crufts. hes so fab!

& Jackie will be flashing of course LOLOLOLOL

How do you find out how many entries there are at a show for a certain breed then?

It usually appears in the Dog press about 2-3 weeks before a Champ show.  If Higham press are doing the entries it is also on their website.

My little lady is also in PG bitch !  Am i allowed to speak to the competion? !!!!!

I'm sure you are LOL if I'm in the same class as someone I know we have a good gossip helps pass the time :D

I know this is off the breeding track but i've been told that the BC judge is very likely to get down on all fours and check out their feet and likes to eyeball, maybe a wind up... brave man if likes to out stare a BC! just to see my little girls reaction last night at ringcraft, much to great amusement the instructor duly carried out above and recieved a lovely wet sloppy kiss!!  Am i the butt of a joke here?

I haven't seen him on all fours, but he is a big man and bends over the dogs, he also has a beard and the combination seems to unsettle some of the dogs he goes over.  He does seems to have a foot fetish, he picks up feet and looks closely at them.

Be careful if you have a youngster who is a bit nervous as he is very heavy handed even with the pups.

LOL John is a very old friend of mine ;) not that I would show a dog under him I don't show under friends but my first male BC came through John & Mary & although he was quite a sensitive dog he loved John. & yes he had lovely feet(the dog that iss)

I think feet are very iimportant for a working breed too as well as movement, type etc as well of course

I wonder what he would make of my smoothie ?

Thanks for that.  My girls do quite a bit of road work, so their nails are well short, but Lizzy may need a bit of a trim hair wise, to help him have a good look! She is very petite, so if he's as big as you say he may well need to get on all fours! I may need to hi-jack a bearded man, i don't think she has ever met one!

LOL can see it now bearded man walking down the street grabbed by dog owner & forced to look at a bitches feet :)

Front page "Our Dogs" !!

LOL :D with pictures of course of dog with big sloppy grin ;)

Of course you can talk to the competition so long as you dont mind talking to me  LOL  and with regards to your other post that would be Fizz's reaction aswell so JG may spend the rest of PG bitch wiping his face after lots of BC kisses :D