Thought I would add my bit just to say that I am somewhat offended that you would suggest that after 25 years of being involved in animal care I don't know the differece between thriving and "seeming fine". As I mentioned in my post above one of my dogs has a very sensitive digestion. We tried many different foods and with one or two very well thought of brands we found that to keep any kind of weight on her we had to feed her enormous amounts, which in turn made her have a very upset tum, loose stools, loss of energy, dull coat and no sparkle at all. Since we have been feeding her Pedigree her tum has settled down and she is carrying the correct amount of weight for her frame for the first time in 3 years, has endless energy,lots of sparkle, nice firm stools and looks fabulous. In my opinion my girl does not "seem fine" she is thriving. My vet who saw my girl on a regular basis while we were struggling with her weight failed to recognise her after 2 months of being fed Pedigree as she had started to fill out and look like a proper dog. I don't have the time or inclination to feed my girls a completely raw diet however in my opinion what each individual feeds their dog is their business. I wouldn't have the audacity to come onto a chat board and slag people off for their choice of pet food especially as you have never seen my dogs. I replied to the Original poster to reassure her that if her puppy was thriving on what it was being fed then she was doing the right thing. Not everyone has a degree in animal nutrition, but I find in most cases common sense has a lot to do with it. You may not agree with people feeding pedigree to their dogs and you have every right to do so however I do suggest until you have evidence that all dogs do not thrive on Pedigree that you keep your mouth firmly shut !!

My my.  Aren't we sensitive?

>>Thought I would add my bit just to say that I am somewhat offended that you would suggest that after 25 years of being involved in animal care I don't know the differece between thriving and "seeming fine".

I am not sure where exactly I suggested that, but there is little I can do about what you find offensive.

>>I don't have the time or inclination to feed my girls a completely raw diet

Nor do I, but I wish I did.  I really do think that raw is best.

>>Not everyone has a degree in animal nutrition

That is PAINFULLY obvious.  :-)

>>I do suggest ...that you keep your mouth firmly shut !!

You would censor me?  Mein Gott.  How about if, before I post to this board, I send a draft proposal to you for your approval?  You can then edit and post it or kill it.  Would that be satisfactory?  I dunno about you, but my even contemplating being kinder and gentler has me feeling all warm and fuzzy.  :-)

Each dog is different.  This is why we have 4 dogs on 3 different foods from 2 different companies.

One was on pedigree nuggarts however he ended up witha few sores soon after they changed the recipie slightly so he is now on wafcol salmon and potatoe by recomendation from the vet and his skin is improving!

He went onto eukanuba senior for a couple of days, the same as our old boy, within a couple of day's he formed a scap just like those he used to get when on nutro.  Back on wafcol now so hopefully everything will be fine again and in future will make sure it doesn't run out!!!

May i ask why whenever a new person disagree's or has a strong opinion on something he/she is accused of being this Denis guy?

I happen to like probes opinions and attitude,i agree with alot of what he has said,just because some of you dont agree doesnt make him the devil incarnate ;)

Chez wa i cant remember all the questions you asked me,dont have much time at the mo,but from what i remember from 10+ years ago and whilst i was growing up,our's and most dogs i knew got our food,mainly table scraps,i honestly cant remember what commercial foods were around back then,but i can remember all of our dogs lived to a ripe old age,only went to the vet for shots and such and none of them had the funky diseases that are so prevelant now.I also think the ingreedients in most commercial food goes a long way in making dogs fat,alot of them now contain,sugars,starches,grains up the wazoo(fattening carbs),chemical flavourings,fatty taste enhancers sprayed on to make them palatable etc. etc. etc.

There is absolutely wrong with having opposing viewpoints.  If you read my posts you will see that I don't actually disagree with him as such.  All I do is ask him to back up some of his outrageous statements.  It's not a good thing to propose an opinion as a generalisation afterall an opinion is just that, one person's point of view.  If you are going to state something as fact then you should be prepared to back it up with evidence otherwise it isn't fact, it's just an opinion. Dennis tends to be a little on the patronising side, can be quite rude and then often starts to make sniping remarks to the other posts that oppose his point of view.  That is really not necessary when having a discussion is it? 

i would like to see the "facts" and figures that dogs on a whole are healthy and thriving now,statements such as this seem to be the common factor in all of Isabels posts when these topics arise,and yet when i look around or visit the vets office this could not be farther from the truth.And yes i do realise that one rarely see's healthy dogs at the vets :p

You really are saying that the vast majority of dogs are unhealthy? Live very short lives? Are continually ill and have no enjoyment in life ?

After I had my son I put his pram in the local ads.  A pregnant lady came to look at it and said yes, that will do.  I was a bit disappointed she said that because I was selling it for next to nothing and included all the bedding, reins, canopy, toys, everything.  It turned out this lady worked as an anaesthetist (sp?) at Great Ormond Children's Hospital and she said she wasn't looking forward to having her baby at all because she KNEW there would be something wrong with it.  She assumed this because every child she saw had something wrong with it and in her head all she kept thinking was that the probability of having a healthy baby were minimal. Her viewpoint was very biased from her observations, her observations weren't fact.  You could say the same about sick dogs in vets.

Your perception of what is going on dog health wise may be very different to the reality because we, none of us, see a large enough sample to be of any value statistically.  Although I can assure you if you bumped into my dogs at the vets, in common with a great many there, they are more likely than not to be in a healthy state as the vast majority of their visits are for routine boosters.  If we are going to get anedotal I would say the majority of unwell dogs I see in my vets waiting area are elderly I honestly can't actually remember the last time I saw a medically unfit young one.  I wonder if our perception of these things can be coloured by the increased likelyhood of the unfortunate few who own such a dog to post on the internet seeking information/help.
There have been several studies on dog longevity reported in the canine press, one for instance, done by MORE TH>N that showed one in five dogs is over eight years old compared to one in ten in 1994 if you don't take the dog press I'm sure you will find more if you Google.

Chez, is there a specific "outrageous statement" you would like for me to back up?  I have made so many.

Yours in arrogance,
Denis Rose

Oh no you're developing a sense of humour :D

>>Oh no you're developing a sense of humour

I've always had it.  It just pales when compared to my arrogance so you never noticed.  :-)

DR

:D
Love the rambling Rose touch :p

For my childhood I'll see your 10+ years and multiply it a few times :D  The foods that were around then might surprise you as the two I remember we used to buy were Pedigree Chum and Chappie and you mixed these with biscuits, the popular one of the day was Winalot.  The reason that you didn't see the array of illnesses and diseases that you see now is because they just weren't diagnosed.  Dogs got ill and were PTS.  There was no cancer treatment for dogs let alone all the other amazing illnesses you hear about now.

People feed their dogs too many things from their own food.  They do the same with their kids, they think they are being kind and treating them but they are doing them harm.  They will deny they do it, just look at the people on the Fat Club on TV or whatever programmes do that sort of thing, the obese people are always shocked by how much they eat.  My dog just recently was looking a bit porkier than she should so I simply reduced her evening meal by a bit. 

Chez,

"People feed their dogs too many things from their own food."

I feed my dog many things from my own food - veg and meat/fish with the odd bit of rice, pasta or fruit.  Neither of my dogs is even close to being plump. (Although I can't say the same for me!)

There is no problem feeding dogs people food.  The only problems come from people feeding them the wrong things (sweets, fats, highly salted foods, etc.) or not reducing the amount of manufactured dog foods they get as well.  I think that's probably what you meant, anyway.

Stacey

Hi Stacey,

That's what I meant.  I give my dog scraps from our plates and leftover veg etc but it's the 'naughty foods' foods I was thinking of such as you described or even too much in the way of scraps.  My mum is terrible when she comes over as she brings the broken biscuits from her cookie jar. I'm sure she breaks them on purpose so that she can 'treat' the dog.  If my dog was with her 24/7 she would be the size of a small planet I'm sure.

>May i ask why whenever a new person disagree's or has a strong opinion on something he/she is accused of being this Denis guy?

I agree it is very naughty :o but when you see threads like this one you can't help but wonder can you ;) :D

Wow, I am so in admiration for those that have time to work and also have small holdings/allotments to grown all their own organic veg in sterilised soil, raise their own animals (And know what is in their animals diet) for meat & slaughter it themselves or to be able to buy from a totally trustworthy butcher.   Take the time to prepare everything from fresh every night and cook into delicious meals containing no additives, sugars, salts etc.    These same people must cycle to work or the shops etc. wearing masks to prevent inhalation of exhaust fumes, likewise they must have their own portable oxygen tents so they inhale only 'pure' air.    And where do you find a well to source your own fresh water from?

I sit here in awe.........

I'm not an extremist by any means ;) but I do cycle to the village shop. I do grow a lot of my own vegetables, I do cook from fresh each night, I do have a well in the garden (from before the mains water came this far out), and I'd love to grow my own meat!

I just don't really have time to fit in a paid job any more! :D

Go Jeangenie, i wouldn't mind being like that myself, atleast you know where your veg is coming from and whats on it.

My BT was always fed on pedigree and was fine on it but my pup got really really poorly on it.  I have now changed them both over to Naturediet and it was the best thing I ever did.

Its just a personal experience but I would never feed my boys on anything other than naturediet now.

Hi

We initally tried Molly on PC but I also had heard bad reviews about so I came on here, asked some advice & have now put her on Hills (vet also recommended) & have found it suits her brilliantly! Her poos were quite runny on PC but since the change she has been fine!  Like they all generally say you'll find what suits your dog in time, but Hills gets thr thumbs up from me, esp seen as Pets At Home do it in a huge bag!!!