My 9 week old CKCS came to me weaned on pedigree puppy complete mixed with a dessert spoon full of pedigree puppy meat per meal. I am new to owning a dog and wondered i anyone could advise me of the best food to gradually change over to and why?? My vets reccomend Hills Science Plan but then they will because it's what they stock..........Thanks in advance

Hayley x

I like (and so do the dogs)  James Wellbeloved but that's just my preference.  Pedigree puppy complete made my pups have diaroreah.  It was recommended to me buy my vet who incidently don't sell it as it is all natural with no artificial ingrediants and fillers.

http://www.wellbeloved.co.uk/

Poppy (CKCS) came to us on Pedigree tinned with complete mixed in.  You'll find most people on here will advise that the best food is the one that suits your dog best, that they are healthy on, with good coats, energy and they enjoy.

The best thing to do is keep him on the pedigree for a couple of weeks til he settles in, then gradually change him over.  You'll need to decide if you want to feed moist or dry food, which will be a big influence on what you feed. 

I gradually changed Poppy over to James Wellbeloved turkey & rice, but as I didn't want to feed her purely dry food, I also give her Nature Diet. She usually has JWB in the morning and ND in the evening (she's on 2 feeds a day now at 8 months).  I've been "critisised" on here for feeding 2 different complete meals to her, but at the end of the day, it's what she likes, what she's healthy on and what I have found suits her best.

You'll need to do some research on ingredients on different foods, and you will find some that suit people's dogs on here, may not necessarily suit your dog.

Good luck

Thanks for the replies. May I add that breeder initially weaned him on Royal Canine but this made him 'loose' - his poo's are fine on the pedigree but lots of people tend to be against it - why is this?

>why is this?

Various reasons seem to be apparent.  Plain prejudice, mostly arising from anticapitalist feeling about large corporations or "modern" practices, others seem to have a need to criticise any food they have not selected as some strange and unecessary justification for what they do feed.
Certainly Pedigree complete is fed to a great many dogs in the UK and as the UK dog population is in very good health I think you have to conclude that it a perfectly good diet providing of course it suits your dog and they enjoy it but then the majority of dogs do suit the majority of foods :)
Or is that the majority of foods do suit the majority of dogs :p

I fed my Papillon pup on pedigree puppy and he was allergic to it, came out in a nasty rash which went as soon as I switched foods. One of my Cavaliers grew too quickly and got inflamed growth plates when on ped Puppy and had to be carried around until 9 months old as he wasn't allowed to walk. Yet I have had many other dogs that have done REALLY well on it. In fact my Malinois pup had terrible problems with an upset soamch and pedigree was the only thing that suited him. :) It's all down to what suits different individuals.

I feed my cavaliers Hills Science biscuits with liver or chicken and i give them garlic tablets and cod liver oil tablets. They especially love liver and it really has made their coat extremely shiney.

I fed my 2 boys on Pedigree for 3 years until the Cavalier started getting runny poos. I switched him to JWB and he's been fine ever since. My bitch has eaten Pedigree puppy with no ill effect, but it's easier for me to feed them all one thing, so all 3 will be eating JWB soon, if it agrees with all of them anyway! :-)

Cavalierz do you know how much vitA your dogs are getting daily?I'm sure you already know but both liver and cod liver oil are extremely high in vitA,too much can be very toxic.

Hi Hayley

I don't want to get drawn into the argument raging on this thread, but just wanted to say that personally I think Pedigree is one of the worst foods around.  It states "Meat and animal derivatives" and "vegetable and vegetable derivatives" on the ingredient list, which basically means that they can change the ingredients when they want to from one meat or veg to another, depending on what is cheapest at any time.  This means that you have no way of regulating what your dog is eating and also some people who have dogs which are allergic to a particular protein or meat cannot guarantee that they will be avoiding it by not feeding Pedigree because no one knows exactly what's in it.

Even more worryingly, they state "EU Permitted Antioxidants and Preservatives" on their ingredient list, which basically means things like BHA and BHT and ethoxyquin.  Ethoxquin is actually used in rubber manufacture and has been shown to cause cancer in lab studies.  So have BHA and BHT. 

So personally I wouldn't feed PEdigree to my dog.

If it is EU permitted that is telling you that the amount is below the permitted levels which in themselves are well below the safe limits determined by decades of studies.  Even vitamins can kill you when you exceed the safe levels :)
Personally I think it is environmentally unsound not to use available gluts of meat or vegetable to feed animals.  It does make perfect sense for the owner of a dog with an allergy to seek more details information but as I, like the majority of people, do not own such a dog I see no more need than the dog does do to regulate what they are eating.

Like I said, I'm not getting drawn into an argument - I'm stating my opinion and the reasoning behind why I don't feed Pedigree to my dogs.  An opinion is what it is - an opinion.  And I'm free to decide what to feed my dogs, just as you are free to decide what to feed yours.

However, I wish I could have as much trust and faith in the "permitted" levels of things.  Do you think everything the government decides is within "permitted" levels is ok?  For humans, let alone for dogs or pets....

I truly believe I could be that naive once again.  However, having actually walked around a pet food manufacturing plant and seen how most pet foods are made and what goes into them, I wouldn't dream of feeding them to my dogs.

Nevermind pet foods, I think most would be horrified at what goes into products for human consumption

>>Nevermind pet foods, I think most would be horrified at what goes into products for human consumption

Amen.  I'm sure Isabel hasn't because she doesn't care but, have you ever read the ingredients in hot dogs?

Now you are presuming to be "sure" of me :) 
Doesn't care about what?  I care very much that I am providing a good diet for my dogs and my humans I just disagree with how you say I should go about it.
Never served up a hotdog in my life although I am sure they are perfectly acceptable as the occasion addition to a balanced human diet.

>>Doesn't care about what?

I am sorry.  I thought you were on the ball enough to make the connection.  :-)  I meant that since you don't care about what is in the food you feed your dogs, I can't imagine you would care about what is in hot dogs.

>>Never served up a hotdog in my life

I am not a big fan of hotdogs myself, but there is a brand called Hebrew National.  If you ever take the notion, that is a pretty good one.  My dog loves hotdogs.  I use them for training treats.

>An opinion is what it is - an opinion

I agree :) and don't recall every telling anyone they cannot state their opinion.  I don't think anyone can expect to state it, though, and ask that nobody debate it - this is an information exchange :).
Yes I do trust the safe limits set by the food agencies these have been tested over many decades, thanks to the human food industry, and as I have often said if the limits were wrong we would have been seeing a reflection of this in canine health long before now.
I'm sure a visit to a food manufacturers would require a strong stomach :p but then humans have become very squeamish in the last few decades haven't they I'm sure someone from the last century would not have batted an eye and nor would our dogs, infact you would have trouble dragging them out I expect :)

>>I don't think anyone can expect to state it, though, and ask that nobody debate it

Someone told me to keep my mouth shut.  Where was your outrage then?  :-)

I'm sure you are capable of defending your own rights :)

>>I don't want to get drawn into the argument raging on this thread

Oh come on.  It's fun.

>>but just wanted to say that personally I think Pedigree is one of the worst foods around.

Oooops.  You trashed their precious Pedigree.  I have a hunch you're about to be drawn into it.  The fact that you are right apparently matters little to some people here.  Good luck.  Not to worry though.  The arrogant hypocrite Dennis Rose has your back.  :-)

It doesn't bother me that you trash Pedigree.  What I think is unfair is that people explain why they feed their dogs certain foods and those people get criticised and are accused of being ignorant.  Well, if they find that their dogs are doing perfectly well on it, good for them surely?  Some people live on sausages and burgers which is not what the nutritionists would call high value foods, however some of those people might die if you gave them fish or nuts because of their allergies.  You have to take into account individual differences, even the less well regarded foods have their place.

Yes, someone who eats burgers all their life might be fine until they reach age 60, when they might drop dead with a heart attack.  But who'd have thought that was coming, looking at the outward appearance of them?

Sadly external appearances don't always indicate how healthy the insides are...

>Sadly external appearances don't always indicate how healthy the insides are...

That's why we need the studies :)
Although I very much doubt a regular burger eater would be looking too good come age 60!

but my point was that for some people dropping dead from a 'healthy' fish or nut option that they have an allergy to makes the burgers and sausages a much healthier option for them. 

I have read posts on here where the dog owner has found that one of the brand leader products suited their dog better than a more highly regarded product.  Should they continue to hunt for the perfect nutrition (if there is such a thing as generalising doesn't allow for individual differences) or use what they know suits their dog? 

I feed all 4 of my dogs Pedigree professional complete food and have never found a problem with it. One of my dogs is very sensitive to different foods and this is the only food I have found that keeps her in tip top condition. All 4 dogs are in fab condition, have beautiful shiny coats and normal firm stools.  I also weaned my last litter of puppies on it and they were all big strong healthy puppies when they went to thier new homes. At least half the litter are still being fed the same and they all seem to do really well on it too. I personally wouldn't change my dogs food now because what I am feeding works for all my dogs. If you are happy to feed pedigree and it agrees with your puppy then why not keep things the same. It is difficult enough for a new baby when it goes to a new home. Like the poster above said if you do plan to change give your puppy a couple of weeks to get settled and then very gradually introduce the new food you wish to feed.
Good luck with your baby and enjoy puppyhood.

>why is this?<

ALOT of people wont feed a food with the kind of ingredients pedigree contain. I had to giggle at Isabels explanation,for most people i know it's the less than desirable ingredients,simple as that :)

Thankyou for all your replies. I'm not planning on changing Harvey's food just yet and have no problems with the pedigree - he's enjoying it and his tummy is just fine, just want what's best for him!

Hayley x

>>I had to giggle at Isabels explanation,<<

Yeah, I kinda got a chuckle out of it too.  :-)

>>for most people i know it's the less than desirable ingredients,simple as that<<

Amen.  OTOH, whatever works for your dog, I suppose.  OTOOH, I doubt some people know what "thriving" would look like, even if their dog were.

If your pup seems fine on pedigree I dont see any reason to change at all.My dog came to me on pedigree and still eats pedigree complete now 2 years later.

There is a difference between "seeming fine" and thriving.  If more people recognized that, less people would feed food like Pedigree.

So a dog with a shiny coat, healthy running around etc. isn't thriving?   It just "seems fine"?   Maybe you'd like to clarify this?

So a dog that was 14 years & 5 months old when it died was never 'thriving' even though it was fed all sorts of 'complete' diets throughout it's life including Pedigree?   It just 'seemed fine' for a great number of years?

One of my last litter was given pedigree puppy for a month. He stopped growing, had diarrohea, and seemed to have allergies. When he was put back onto Beta puppy he very quickly recovered his health. His mother, on the other hand, was brought up on Pedigree and did well. I think it is up to you what you you feed your dog, so long as it is doing well.

I now feed  a complete food along with raw food. They particularly love the minced tripe (yuckk!)

>>Maybe you'd like to clarify this?<<

I could, I suppose.  But I wonder, should we be debating semantics or discussing what ingredients comprise a quality dog food?  Which would be more appropriate for this board?

Most people don't get wrapped up in ingredients and the effects on individuals is not going to tell you much either as there will always be some dogs not well served by any of the foods (or ingredients) on the market but the fact remains it is a big seller so if it wasn't capable of doing very well for most of the dogs it was fed to you would see this reflected in the population as a whole.  Which on the whole is extremely robust :)

>>Most people don't get wrapped up in ingredients<<

Most people are ignorant.  I assume we are here because we want to educate ourselves and be better pet owners than "most people."

>> as there will always be some dogs not well served by any of the foods (or ingredients)<<

Which is why there are different QUALITY foods with different INGREDIENTS.

>>but the fact remains it is a big seller so if it wasn't capable of doing very well for most of the dogs<<

Which is exactly, I submit, what companies like Purina want you to believe.  We sell A LOT of it so it MUST be good.  You bought into their advertising and hype.  I did too, for awhile.  Now I know better.

>> it was fed to you would see this reflected in the population as a whole.  Which on the whole is extremely robust <<

Sounds like the makings of a McDonalds slogan.  Hmmmmm.  Let's brainstorm.  Maybe we can sell it to them and be zillionaires.  "We sell a lot of Quarter Pounders to the population as a whole, which is extremely robust, so we MUST BE GOOD!!!"  Yeah, I like it.  :-)

>I assume we are here because we want to educate ourselves and be better pet owners than "most people."

I don't know what you are here for but I am sure most of the readers are perfectly capable of reading ingredient lists if they want to and are equalling capable of understanding my point about the relevence of this ingredient over another so I don't think they need patronising.
As to your other points I did not say I thought the food good because it sold a lot.  My point was it does sell a lot so if, as you suggest, it is a bad product we would see that reflected in the population. 
The McDonalds gobblegook doesn't seem to relate sensibly to any point so I'll have to just let that sit there :)

Dennis? Stat U? :D

What does the 1957 represent?  date? calculation?

More of a Roselike quality I thought ;) :D

>>Most people are ignorant.  I assume we are here because we want to educate ourselves and be better pet owners than "most people."<<

that's rather arrogant if not a sweeping statement.  People on here have justified why they have used certain brands, because it suits their dogs. 

>>Which is why there are different QUALITY foods with different INGREDIENTS.<<

If people are happy that their dogs are healthy, happy and look good does it really matter what you say?  You have already said you bought into Purina Hype so how do you know you've not bought into someone else's?  Where is the evidence that says many dogs are suffering from not being on "QUALITY" foods?

Dogs, like people, have differences.  You could say that people people fed on McDonalds would benefit from replacing the burgers with fish but some people are allergic to fish so would they really benefit?  I found certain foods made my dog behave in certain ways but I don't advocate that every owner who comes on here should buy into that food.  All I will say is that my experiences are blah blah blah, that's what this forum is about, discussing not dictating!

>Where is the evidence that says many dogs are suffering from not being on "QUALITY" foods?<

Where is the evidence that dogs on the whole are thriving? :) What about allergies,kidney disease,liver disease,cancer,poor longevity,obesity etc. etc. Most of these things were hardly heard of 10-15 years ago :(

There have been several studies reported in the dog press regarding the present longevity and health of the species.
Obesity is a worry and I would not be surprised if we see this starting to reflect in these studies but this is the modern way of us all having too much so we treat our dogs to the same :)
I wonder how old you are :) the others have been around as long as I can remember.   If anything we should see more kidney disease, cancer etc as these are what come with old age.  The longer our dogs live the more chance of them suffering from these.

Hi Isabel,

I've seen plenty of young dogs dying of cancer and kidney failure etc. :(

There have always been the unlucky few what is relevent is the population as a whole.

>>Where is the evidence that dogs on the whole are thriving?  What about allergies,kidney disease,liver disease,cancer,poor longevity,obesity etc. etc. Most of these things were hardly heard of 10-15 years ago

Medical breakthroughs seem to be a daily occurrence these days. 30 years ago there was only a fraction of diagnostic techniques that we have today.  These days with the up to minute technology and national recording of illnesses and diseases of course you will hear of more of them, it doesn't mean that they are more prevalent or widespread just that they are diagnosed, recorded and communicated more effectively.

As for obesity that's got nothing to do with the dog food off the shelves but more likely the food from the human's larder.  My sis-in-law was horrified when she saw me giving my dog tit-bits for training treats, her dog was severely obese but I told her I reduce my dog's dinner at night if she's had treats during the day, something she said she didn't do. 

You are suggesting that dogs' health is pooer now than 10-15 years ago but this suggests that food in general has got poorer in standard.  Are you saying that manufacturers like Pedigree and Purina have actually got worse over the last 10-15 years?  When I was a child dogs generally got the cheapest tin off the shelf mixed with some Winalot, are you saying that it was better then than any complete food you can get now?

>>that's rather arrogant if not a sweeping statement

My arrogance or lack thereof notwithstanding, my comment that most people are ignorant is a fact and certainly not reflective of arrogance.  There are some subjects on which each of us probably has some high degree of knowledge and many more subjects on which each of us is ignorant.  There is no shame in ignorance, as it is a quality possessed by all of us.  Sorry if you find that arrogant.

>>If people are happy that their dogs are healthy, happy and look good does it really matter what you say?

Nope.

>>You have already said you bought into Purina Hype so how do you know you've not bought into someone else's?

I have taken the time to educate myself.  A process which continues.

>>Where is the evidence that says many dogs are suffering from not being on "QUALITY" foods?

Asked and answered.  I have neither the time nor the inclination to answer it again.

>>I don't advocate that every owner who comes on here should buy into that food.

Nor am I advocating any specific food.  To summarize my main point, based on the ingredients, Pedigree is not a food I choose to feed to my dog.

I'm sorry but you are arrogant if you think that, because people haven't come to the same conclusions as you, they haven't taken the time to look into or consider the subject or that they are too ignorant to do so.

>>I'm sorry but you are arrogant

If I were to dispute that point, I would be the only one who knows me who would do so.  :-)

>>...if you think that, because people haven't come to the same conclusions as you, they haven't taken the time to look into or consider the subject or that they are too ignorant to do so.

I believe it was you who indicated that people aren't generally concerned about nor do they have any real knowledge of the ingredients in dog food.  That being the case, and assuming you accept my premise, aren't these people, by definition, ignorant at least in regard to dog food ingredients?

>I believe it was you who indicated that people aren't generally concerned about nor do they have any real knowledge of the ingredients in dog food

No I didn't :) I said "most of the readers are perfectly capable of reading ingredient lists if they want to and are equalling capable of understanding my point about the relevence of this ingredient over another" which is a world of difference.
However we have already covered that point.
I take it from your comment about degrees in animal nutrition that you hold one yourself :)

>>Where is the evidence that says many dogs are suffering from not being on "QUALITY" foods?

>>Asked and answered.  I have neither the time nor the inclination to answer it again.

I can't see where you have answered that question.  If the dog owners see that their dogs are happy, healthy and looks good where is the evidence that they are suffering?

Pedigree is not a food I give my dog either because I tried it and I don't think it agreed with her.  I feed my dog a brand that is fairly well respected but I have seen people write on this forum that it doesn't suit their dogs.  Surely then it is about what suits the dog.  Some dogs have efficient digestive systems and do very well on most foods so why should the owners buy a much more expenisve food just because they are told they are ignorant if they don't? 

:D @ Isobel

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