I don't understand the need to create a new breed when there are others struggling to survice that have very similar traits, like the IWS, why not put their efforts into that established breed to help preserve it?

The curly coated retreiver is in the smae boat and is larger.

Both breeds need an influx of new enthusiasts.

It doesn't matter how much you may all be against the Labradoodle, I have nothing more to say in its defence as I feel I have done a pretty good job already ..... but the fact is, the Labradoodle is here to stay so you may as well just stop getting yourselves so irrate about it and accept it.

Re Curly Coated Retrievers being "in the same boat" - actually this is not so. Temperament wise they are very reserved, Labradoodles are outgoing.

They are in the same boat in that they need new enthusiasts to keep the breed viable.  Maybe I have met different ones to you but never foundt Curlies particularly reserved, cedrtainly IWS are not. :D  so there are already two breeds that wopuld suit the same niche, one quiter and one more lively, but like the lab and the poodle?

Zoes mum , what do you actually have as dogs? :-)  You seem to constantly undermine the who thing a decent breeder tries to do I think time and time. .

These fad made breeds along with the puppy producers all need stopped. They do nothing for the welfare of dogs all they do is exploit people and their hard earned money.

Sorry to rant at you but sometimes I think you honestly miss the whole point of what people are trying to do and say.

How can a labrador/poodle cross be renowned for its temperament as a cross breed no-one can predict how the two types of parental temperament will react together. 
It may be there are a few serious minded folk out to create a new breed, although goodness knows why when the two breeds involved here are perfectly fit for their own purpose, the standard poodle even potentially meeting the needs of the allergy suffering, but as long as they persist with this highly commercial name anyone with a poodle and access to next-door-but-one's labrador is going to continue having a go at cashing in.  If they were really serious it would have been simply named after the place or person of origin like every other created breed over the last century but the fact that they have chosen the name they have does not spell out any high minded motive to me.

What is in a name anyway for goodness sake ? Personally I think "Pug" sounds ridiculous ...

whatever, a name does not make a breed good or bad does it ? That is a very shallow attitude.

As for temperament, as I said before, Poodles and Labradors have great temperaments ... put them together and surprise surprise, chances are the combination is going to make ... wait for it ... a great temperament ! If organisations such as Canine Partners are using them for the disabled then quite honestly I don't think any of you are in a position to try and imply that the nature of the labradoodle is anything but good. Of course, this does depend on well tempered dogs being used for breeding ... there are particularly some not so nice natured labradors out there, simply because they have been bred by mindless idiots and if such a dog was used for the breeding of Labradoodles then of course, resulting pups may well not have good natures themselves. It is all common sense really.

>As for temperament, as I said before, Poodles and Labradors have great temperaments ... put them together and >surprise surprise, chances are the combination is going to make ... wait for it ... a great temperament !

And put 2 Poodles together or 2 Labradors and you STILL get the same result.........

Marianne

Well thats turning it on its head calling me shallow for thinking the name commercial :rolleyes:
Temperaments are far more complex than that.  For instance one parent, because of its breeds trait may have what would be regarded as a good temperament because they are biddable and have no willness to challenge the other may have intelligence and train well but be a bit of a free thinker, a pup inheriting the free thinking gene without the biddability may not have a winning temperament at all.
Don't Canine Partners take all sorts of cross breeds, after a temperament test of course :)

>How can a labrador/poodle cross be renowned for its temperament as a cross breed no-one can predict how the >two types of parental temperament will react together.

Exactly. I have 2 dogs that are a first cross. You can see a bit of each breed in them, but really neither of them are at all what I would have expected. The bitch hasn't got the temperament of either of her parents. I think for something like temperament (AND type, don't forget type) it takes years and years before it becomes fixed. First crosses will always be just that -a first cross. Unknown quantity.

I CAN see times where it may be suitable to mix 2 different breeds, for a REASON. For instance, at home in Sweden, the most common "breed" of Guide Dog is a cross between a GSD and a Labrador. This was done deliberately, over years, as it was felt neither beed was 100 % suitable as Guide Dogs, but by crossing them, eventually they developed a strain of dogs that were perfect for the job.(Similarly here Guide Dogs cross Goldens and Labradors -to BE Guide Dogs, not to be sold as pets as a new breed.) But the "Labradoodle"? I believe it was first done as an attempt to create Guide Dogs for those allergic to dogs, but it failed. Didn't work. Then why continue? Aren't there enough breeds to chose from,and enough crossbreeds too?

Marianne

>since every single breed in existence today has come about as a result of mixing breeds .......

But pretty much all of them was many MANY years ago, some hundreds of years ago. The example of irish water Spaniel -well according to what I've read they were created in the 1830's.

Marianne

I'm surprised my breed wasn't brought up, but to those who don't know the breed "type" has been in existence for centuries and is not a recent breed :d

How many breeds are there in the World?  Why do people need to keep on adding these cross breeds when surely there are enough breeds in this ever decreasing world of ours where it is now these days fairly easy to import.

Importing aside :) there are several native breeds facing extinction perhaps because they lack novelty and a (I hardly dare say it ;)) commercial name.

One of the Australian breeders websites (and this breeder is a founder member of the "Labradoodle Society) is now showing that they DO have health problems and so now other breeds are being introduced to try to eradicate these. From memory, I think they tried the Portugese Water Dog (it is just from memory and I may be wrong), but this introduction did nothing to eradicate one of the problems, which is chronic ear infections. They are now looking to other breeds, and I believe they are testing the Soft Coated Wheaten - which after all is a terrier, so will introduce yet another very different personality. type, movement and coat - to mention just a few variations.

Mmmmm wonder if they will call that one the Labrawhoodle :rolleyes:

All I know is that it makes my blood boil that to eradicate the faults these so called "breeds" have, even more proper breeds are being used. It is the likes of these "breeders" who are contribruting to the loss of very old breeds by reducing gene pools in order to line their pockets.

Didn't they realise that with the ear structure of the Portugese that they would still have ear problems, or were they brought in for something else ?

They wanted to improve conformation, and found the ear problem got worse (surprise!) If you do a google on labradoodles in Australia you will probably find the site.

I have only just skimmed over this thread as it is a long one, but i have heard that labradoodles do moult and i see they are being sold for £600!! if they wanted a non shedding guide dog why not choose the curly coated retriever??

My friends curly coated retriever sheds like crazy!  Why not just use a poodle? They're intelligent and very trainable.

There's someone near us who breeds all sorts of 'doodles' and 'poo..s'.  Its really quite alarming, especially when they claim that they are and will have 'pedigrees', because the different breed parents are pedigrees.

They don't sound as endearing when called pooadors!

I regularly encouter one when out walking, he has a grumpy disposition and he does moult!  His owner paid a lot of money for him too!

>pooadors!

:D
You may notice I refuse to use these "breed" names the breeders dream up, to me, a spade is a spade so I will always use the term Labrador/Poodle cross or whatever the combo might be and would like to urge all responsible posters to do the same and not kow tow to the commercialisation game :)

I know of someone that owns a delightful Labradoodle, shes a bit mad but a lovely dog all the same, I can provide a photo  of this dog if anyone is intrested :)  Shes a real lovely dog :)

Oh great , a obsessively barking dog that's prone to HD and eye problems. Just what we needed!

We have one around here, as daft as a brush; the owner doesn't let it off lead.

I'm not against new breeds being bred for a specific purpose, when the gene pool and all health checks have been carefully considered, and they are documented as a breed.  But if there is no purpose for a Lab/Poodle cross then why are they being bred?  And sold at horrendous prices?  And there are people who pay this?  Incredible. 

They are good for people with allergies !!!!  Not quite right actually as most people are allergic to the dander and not the actual coat.  I think maybe the woolly coats in some breeds maybe lessen the dander not so sure, but it doesn't always go that a person will not be allergic to dogs with a  wool coat.  That's why people who are allergic always have to come to my house first and see if they are.

I always believed that unless a dog held a kc registration it couldnt be hip scored, i know they ask for your  certificate to add the number on the results, ???   im sure anyone can get xrays etc that will give some idea, --but i think its still only registered ones that get a score from a panel.

Any dog can be X rayed & I think submitted to the BVA,although these X breeds could be Activities registered(like the BC's & Aussies were) & then scored. Not sure if non reg can be scored they can be eye tested

Just checked here it would appear than non reg dogs can be scored, which is what i thought as my puppies father  & father have been scored & he's ISDS only registered !(BTW they are under the breed average & mean)

Ooh Val perhaps a bit of your high and mighty attitude has rubbed off on me LOL ....

As for the very silly comment that breeders can't predict temperament just like they can't predict coat type ....

Well, the Poodle has a coarse curly coat  and I am sure you are probably aware that the Labrador has a short flat coat ..... anyone with any brains can see that if you put the two together you will get varying results - actually most have a wavy coat type but this is not always the case.
Now lets look at the TEMPERAMENT of the poodle and the lab ...
Both originally bred to retrieve, both friendly and outgoing, boisterous as puppies, eager to please and devoted to their families, good with children (all of this only applies of course if they are true to type).Granted the st.poodle is more intelligent than the Labrador but other than that there is very little difference.
So it seems to me no surprise that the Labradoodle has the above character traits.
LOL anyone would think we were talking about the mating of a Labrador to an Akita or an American Pit Bull Terrier ....... of course then temperament would not be consistent as they are both so very different.

Anyway, must dash, off to take my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel for walkies lol ...

Zoes Mum,

>Ooh Val perhaps a bit of your high and mighty attitude has rubbed off on me LOL ....

Can't see the resemblance myself   I don't ever recall Val adopting a "high and mighty attitude" nor do you appear to share her level of experience. 

>Well, the Poodle has a coarse curly coat  and I am sure you are probably aware that the Labrador has a short flat coat ..... anyone with any brains can see that if you put the two together you will get varying results

As with many of your other comments you have yet again strengthened the case that any two recognised breeds when mated together produce nothing other than a random cross-breed with no fixed type or traits - precisely what mostly everyone else has stated ;)

 

The characters in the pure bred, typical examples of both these breeds may be good and share some similarities but they are different.  We know that a pup does not inherit half genes and half traits, as you acknowledge, a curly coat and a smooth coat does not mean all the pups will have a half length/halfway curly coats but any variation from one extreme to the other it is the same with temperament, genes holding the various aspects of the temperament are inherited in a random selection. What if it inherits the "gay-spirit" of the poodle but no bidability genes are passed on?  Quite a handfull in a large dog I would say.

There are an awful lot of Labradoodle experts on here aren't there ? Considering none of you have an interest in the breed you are all happy to devote heaps of time to typing comments about it.

Oh and Teri do not question my knowlege on dogs because you are not in a position to do so.

Sorry to disappoint you all as you will not be able to take a pop at me on this thread any longer because I have said more than I wanted to really and I am getting bored. I am also confident that I have made the more informed/knowlegeable comments and will leave it at that.

My first dog was PROBABLY a so called 'Labradoodle' - he had attitude, and bags of it - fortunatly I grew up with a variety of dogs, so he wasn't too much of a challenge - but he was a smart dog, and if not entertained, he made his own entertainment :(  I've met other similar dogs since, and I admit to having a preference for this particular cross - but at this stage, I feel it must be accepted as nothing more than a cross breed.  Call them Labradoodles if you must, but it's unfair on future owners to claim things for them that you can't guarantee.

BTW - this is an open forum, and Teri has as much right to question your knowledge of dogs as you have to tell her she is not in a position to do so.

I think even people with a minimum of canine knowledge will be able to seperate the wheat from the chaff on this thread when the majority disagree with one!  It's good that folk know that the claims made by people breeding these crossbreed are simply not true.  If it saves just one family falling for the propaganda then the time will have been well spent. :)

Hi.  I agree with what you say.  I am new to this, but having browsed through the various issues to date, I am of the impression that certain people use this site over and over again to get on to their own 'soap boxes' to try to instill their personal views over and over again instead of giving constructive advice and help when it is asked for.  Perhaps a little more decorum from these people would not come amiss.   All of us are dog lovers in our own right.

Zoes Mum

>Oh and Teri do not question my knowlege on dogs because you are not in a position to do so

Where did I question "your knowledge"?    And why would I feel the need to when you've personally and repeatedly made it abundantly clear to what extent you can be relied on for informed opinion?   Teri  ;)

Zoe:   we know and accept Teri's credentials - pray what are yours?

Regards

Margot

To reply to Bowers, and to agree with Monmaiden, yes unregistered, cross breed and mongrel dogs can all be scored by the BVA,but the results cannot be used by the KC for the purposes of breed records.

Dawn R.