Just a quick question to all you breeders out there.  I have always thought that a labradoodle was just a fancy name for a labrador/poodle cross.  However, I happened to notice today while looking through a dog magazine that where they list all the breeds + hips scores, health problems etc that the labradoodles are entered as a breed alongside all the rest.  It even states that there is no known health problems known to breeders.  Does this mean that the labradoodle has, or will shortly be, accepted by the KC as a separate breed? 

There is a very simple reason for no '''known''' health problems.  They are a crossbreed and as such cannot be registered by the KC and therefore do not have the health tests.  The operative word used is KNOWN......dog magazines are quite happy to list them, anywhere, it is an advert, anyone can place these. Dont be fooled into a false sense of security!!!!!

If I had not had one of my dogs x-rayed and found HD and severe arthritis, I could have, quite honestly stated that she had no 'known' health problems.

It is worth saying though, that cross breeds and unrecognised breeds CAN be hip scored under the KC/BVA scheme, but not many are. In my opinion, 'breeders' of these designer dogs, might get more respect if they scored their breeding dogs and bitches. Same goes for any breed or breeders really. :)

Dawn R.

Agreed Dawn. ;)

Quite a few of their parents are being hipscored I believed well on the Lab side, don't know about the Poodles, how they can say that there are no known problems I don't know if they don't bother scoring the first, second, third generation how do they know?

Seeing that Lab's can have quite high hip scores and even the few Poodles that are scored aren't all low there's no way that they can say that HD isn't a problem in the "breed".  Also the people who originally bred them realised that their idea didn't come true and that it didn't mean that they would be good for people with allergies etc.

NO I can't see them being accepted by the KC either, not for a very long time anyway.

If they were to be accepted by KC, how would a breed standard be established given that a litter of crossbreeds (whether intentional or otherwise) can vary so greatly in looks?

Quite right, one of the criteria for the KC to accept a breed is that it must breed true. Another is that they must have stopped using the 'founder' breeds.

Can I add to this as well that temperaments on the few labradoodles I have been in contact with and reports from some owners can be iffy to say the least.
they can be very hyper and very difficult to train.
When the idea was first considered  to cross standard poodles with labradors by GDBA it was to produce a  taller non shedding dog for blind people with allergies.
It was found (as I understand) that in only a few first crosses it worked  but was not a success and the idea scrapped, unfortunately breeders  jumped on the bandwagon and started to produce these cute looking pups and of course cashed in on the ever gullible public who would spend large amounts on these dogs.
I wonder if anyone has done any research on how many of these dogs actually made great pets and how many ended up in rescue.
Regarding cross breeding  a large amount of dogs used by guide dogs for the blind  are in fact labrador/golden retriever  crosses which seem to get the best from both breeds and produce a taller dog

Cute looking pups that all look different!!  At extortionate prices too.  I believe that in America some are going for over £1,000.00, fools and their money is all that I can say :d

When you think both are working dogs, OK I know that not many Poodles are worked these days but I've met a few that still have the brain of the old working types and if this was mxed with another working type Labrador there's no wonder that some of them can be hard work!!

I know someone who owns a Labradoodle. She got it because she really wanted a dog but her husband is allergic. I think she paid about £400. However, her dog is 4th generation Labradoodle and most definitley sheds hair. It is a nice dog but then, so is my 'mutt' that I paid nothing for (granted, I 'rescued' him at 6 months of age) but I know that the breeder of the accidental litter originally gave the pups to friends and family for nothing as he just wanted decent homes for them and felt that, as mutts, they had no real monetary value. How easily he could have advertised them as rare 'Labrachows' (or whatever) and charged a fortune!!

That's because they can't guarantee which parent it's going to take after!

labradoodles can either be the result of crossoing a poodle and a lab or be 3/4 poodle 1/4 labrador

The Labrador Retriever Club, Incorporated is dedicated to the health and welfare of the Labrador Retriever breed while conserving the original breed function - that of a "working retriever." A purebred dog offers to his owner the likelihood that he will be a specific size, shape, color and temperament. The predictability of a breed comes from selection for traits that are desirable and away from traits that are undesirable. When a breed standard or type is set, the animals within that breed have less heterozygosity than do animals in a random population

A Labradoodle is nothing more than an expensive mongrel. Because the genetic makeup is diverse from the Poodle genes and the Labrador genes, the resultant first generation (F1) offspring is a complete genetic gamble. The dog may be any size, color, coat texture and temperament. Indeed Labradoodles do shed. Their coat may be wiry or silky and may mat. Body shape varies with parentage but tends to be lanky and narrow. Behavior varies with the dog and within a litter with some puppies poodle-like in attitude and others somewhat like the Labrador Retriever.

The Labrador Retriever Club, Inc. is opposed to cross-breeding of dogs and is particularly opposed to the deliberate crossing of Labrador Retrievers with any other breed. These crossbreds are a deliberate attempt to mislead the public with the idea that there is an advantage to these designer dogs. The crossbred dogs are prone to all of the genetic disease of both breeds and offer none of the advantages that owning a purebred dog has to offer.

Frances S. Smith DVM, Ph.D.
LRC, Inc. Board of Directors
Diplomate American College of Theriogenology

June 20, 2005

(For more on Labradoodles read the article from the AKC Gazette by Mrs. Annie Rogers Clark)

 

I have a few friends who breed labradoodles ... a breed actually that I am getting increasingly interested in.

Sorry to disappoint some of you guys but ACTUALLY alot do hip score, elbow score and eye test their LABRADOODLES under the KC/BVA schemes. Of course there are those who don't bother - as in any breed you get responsible and irresponsible breeders.

It makes me laugh when so called "pedigree" dog breeders slate Labradoodles since every single breed in existence today has come about as a result of mixing breeds .......

Does the Irish Water Spaniel remind you of anything ..... ????
Yes, of course it does, because they are closely related to my breed the Standard Poodle ! Bichon Frise, Bichon Havanese, Maltese all share common ancestory. Nobody objects though because the breeds are well established.

Did all the dog experts on here realise that Labradoodles originate in Australia and are well established there - been around for over 30 years and whether you like it or not the Labradoodle is here to stay.
Also contrary to popular belief MOST  breeders/owners do not love the Labradoodle because they consider it fashionable. Rather because they are highly trainable, excellent with children and even those that do shed their hair are still usually ok for people with allergies. Also, provided they have been carefully bred from good healthy stock on both the poodle and the labrador side, they tend to be very healthy and hardy with no hereditary health problems How I wish this could be said for my beloved breeds, the standard poodle and the cavalier king charles spaniel !

>since every single breed in existence today has come about as a result of mixing breeds .......

The difference is they don't call it a breed until the work is done and the breeding is true.  A labrador/poodle cross is not a breed and should not be marketed as such until such time as all offspring breed true to type, hopefully by them they will have given it another, less commercial sounding, name too :rolleyes:
I am not sure how you are managing to describe their traits as the individuals will vary so much, certainly one of my old school chums who bought one had to return it as it had a very nasty temperament.

If the 'breed' originated 30 years ago why are they still breeding first crosses?????...mmmm still sounds like a cross breed to me :d
Archer

I don't think you read my post properly !!!!!!

The breed has been around for 30 years in AUSRALIA .... and no they don't still breed Poodles to Labradors there !!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously in the UK the breed is still very new and whilst there are some Labradoodle X Labradoodle matings, I gather from responsible breeders that poodle X Labrador matings are essential and will be for sometime  in order to WIDEN THE GENE POOL. Nobody in dog breeding should argue against the importance of that !!!!!!!!!

I guess here in the UK, they do call them Labradoodles even though as yet there is not a breed standard and won't be for sometime BECAUSE THEY ARE ESTABLISHED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD SUCH AS AUSTRALIA .... although even in Australia where Labradoodles are multi generation, they ALL originally derive from a Poodle/Labrador cross.... even if it was 30 years back.

According to a few of my friends, Vets who have come into contact with Labradoodles are very taken by them - infact one of them has her own vet down on her waiting list already for one of her pups from next years litter LOL.
As for temperament, well the labradoodle is renowned for its wonderful nature, from what I can gather and that is the MAIN reason for its growing popularity. A well bred Labrador and a well bred Standard Poodle has a wonderful temperament, so why should it not follow through that Labradoodles have a great temperament ?!! My Standard Poodles have beautiful natures and are very eager to please and devoted, just as a well bred Labrador is.

So what if most breeds were established years ago .... say way back in the 1830's ??

Why does that make it ok for the likes of the Irish Water Spaniel but totally wrong for the Labradoodle.

I forgot to mention also that as well as vets generally giving the Labradoodle the thumbs up, organisations such as Canine Partners who train dogs for the disabled are also very impressed with them. Infact a friend of mine had a few from her last litter go to Canine Partners. I do think that alone speaks for itself.

>I forgot to mention also that as well as vets generally giving the Labradoodle the thumbs up, organisations such >as Canine Partners who train dogs for the disabled are also very impressed with them.

But Guide Dogs gave up the experiment with them as they weren't suitable. There's loads of breeds already suited as assistance dogs etc.

Marianne

Quote - But Guide Dogs gave up the experiment with them as they weren't suitable. There's loads of breeds already suited as assistance dogs etc.

Guide Dogs have never bred labradoodles. Guide Dogs have used labradoodles (bred by someone else) but never bred them. Not sure why everyone thinks they were a failed experiment. They were used - some made it & others didn't - but it was not an experiment - failed or otherwise. :)

I did a few days at the GDBA in Exeter when they had the 2 Labrador X Poodles in, yikes must be 1 years ago and they said they were an experiment but not something that would be continued, one of them made it into their demonstration team and I can't remember what happened to the other one.

Stop saying the Curly Coated Retriever is in the same boat as the Labradoodle because it isn't. The CCR is a reserved character  (well it is supposed to be lol) - probably why it is not particularly popular. The Labradoodle is very outgoing and friendly - ideal for families.

As for the Guide Dog association, they may not train up the Labradoodle but CANINE PARTNERS DO..... as dogs for the disabled ........ VERY VERY IMPRESSED WITH THEM THEY ARE TOO, according to my breeder friend. Infact she told me this morning that Canine Partners have actually set up a website which focuses on one of the Labradoodle pups they bought off her and will follow through her entire training period.

>The Labradoodle is very outgoing and friendly - ideal for families.

I'm sorry Zoes Mum I do not accept that the temprement of a cross bred dog can be predicted like this, my friends labrador/poodle cross was certainly neither outgoing nor friendly.
Don't Canine Partners accept any cross breed for assessment?  Nor would I expect them to have just accepted your friends labrador/poodle crosses without assessing them first, am I right?

""As for the Guide Dog association, they may not train up the Labradoodle""  - sometimes they do! :)

Well, my friend had one of her pups bought by Canine Partners from her litter last year and they are wanting another four off her from her next .... Actually no, Canine Partners would not use any cross breed - character wise they have to be well suited for what they are going to used for and whether you lot like it or not, the Labradoodle fits the bill perfectly.

I think you do all need to get over yourselves - it is amazing how much interest the Labradoodle attracts on here .... you are all resentful of the attention and popularity of this dog, and it clearly eats away at some people. Actually, you tend to find that those most against the Labradoodle are Labrador breeders who struggle to find good homes for their pups - they can't bear the fact that Labradoodle breeders have more prospective excellent owners lined up than they do puppies. Sour grapes or what ! Friends of mine tell me that most of the interest in the Labradoodle comes from people who already know someone with one and have instantly fell in love with their amazing character and the fact that they are highly trainable .....
Yes, it does seem that this is generally across the board, ok you may get one or two with an iffy temperament, just as you can in any breed .... you lot can assume all you like that there can't be a typical labradoodle temperament  ... but personally I prefer to listen to those who actually know what they are talking about, those involved in the breed -  rather than those who make completely unfounded assumptions based on their own ignorance.
Anyway, I have nothing more to say ... this isn't even my breed lol but I just can't sit back and read all these posts from people who actually know nothing whatsoever about the Labradoodle, but simply have a problem with it due to its increasing popularity and  because it is relatively new in the UK and therefore a very, very easy target.
Probably 30 years ago the first Labradoodle breeders in Australia received a similar backlash ... but it hasn't made it go away so I advise people to just accept it is here to stay and put it to the back of their minds, just as they might any other breed that they don't particularly have an interest in.
There are a few breeds I have a problem with that I don't think should be being bred, but I don't let it get to me - such as the Bulldog, so many of them cannot breathe properly, most need caesarians, direct assistance with the mating is essential - no proper tie permitted etc etc. But nobody seems to object to any of that LOL. Not a very healthy breed at all ... although you must expect to pay around £2000 if you want a puppy. Goodness knows why.
A lot of you do seem to have your priorities completely wrong.

Once again I would remind you the Labrador/Poodle cross is not a breed :)

& our local rescue always has at least one of these X breeds in there usually the huge ones that shed like mad with bahaviourial problems

To my amazement on Sky this morning I read this!!!!!!!!!!!!

Labradoodle
A dog which was developed as a cross between a labrador retriever and a poodle.

Labradoodle is one of the newly listed words in the latest edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English

I have not read the word in the actual dictionary, but it does not say "breed in this quotation"

It was also mentioned that it was developed by the GDBA which of course it wasn't

Corret Moonmaiden - GD's have never bred them & many people on here use the argument that GD's "started" off the labradoodle & they "failed" as an experiment -which is all rubbish.
Years ago GD's were offered some (only a few) from a breeder, trained them & some passed - some didn't, as you'd expect with any breed or cross.  :)

Just been looking at an Australian site All the health tests etc done but they seem to always have puppies :rolleyes: indicating to me a puppy producing business rather than someone trying to establish a breed ! They even have a price list :O ! Not something I would expect on any dog site

Hi Zoes Mum

>I think you do all need to get over yourselves - it is amazing how much interest the Labradoodle attracts on here .... you are all resentful of the attention and popularity of this dog, and it clearly eats away at some people.

I don't think anyone "needs to get over themselves" or is "resentful of the popularity of this dog"    What most members regard as inappropriate is that many of these crosses - and they are crosses are sold at highly inflated prices to members of the general public as a breed ;)  Claims to be able to accurately predict the physical appearance, coat type or temperament of a cross-breed are at best conjecture and at worst dishonest.  Pure and simple. 

As to anyone's opinion on the health, cost, or otherwise of an actual KC recognised breed, that's immaterial under this thread as it is titled "Labradoodles" so your closing remark regarding

>A lot of you do seem to have your priorities completely wrong

seems to have been made in an unneccessarily offensive manner. 

Actually, I have had lengthy discussions with my friends re coat types etc etc and NONE OF THEM EVER GUARANTEE HOW COATS WILL TURN OUT TO PROSPECTIVE OWNERS ...
Funnily enough their love of the breed is so strong that people are MORE THAN HAPPY to take their Labradoodle puppy, knowing that there is no definite guarantee of coat type .... it seems the temperament above all is what attracts MOST people to the breed. So contrary to popular belief that people buying labradoodles consider it a "designer dog" could not be further from the truth !!!!!!!!!!!
Now perhaps we should start a new thread about Bulldogs and see if that stirs up as much controversy ... somehow I doubt it LOL. So I won't bother.

No guarantees how they'll turn out, eh? LOL :D  Heck, it's starting to sound more like a mongrel ;)

>Now perhaps we should start a new thread about Bulldogs and see if that stirs up as much controversy ...

I think if that breed interests you so much you should try using the search facility - you'll find it's been done and dusted a few times :)

Once again I would remind you that these crosses are not a breed.   At least you are admitting that with a cross breed of such two very different dogs you cannot predict what the coat will be like so why you consider it likely that anyone can predict the temperament I do not know.

Our local rescue frequently has Labrador x Poodles from families who have been sold them by the breeder saying that they will be OK for their family members with allergies.  Invariably they are not, the breeders don't want them back and the dogs end up in rescue, often before the poor souls are 6 months old! :(

Puppies 

Holly gave birth to her gorgeous litter of Labradoodle puppies on the 20th July 05. There are 3 cream and 4 Black.
Pups will be ready to view from 17th August, and ready to leave from the 7th Sept.
Pups leave with 6 weeks free insurance, wormed, vet health checked, de-flead and hopefully paper trained.
They are £625 - £675,
£150 deposit reserves your pup.
Genuine enquiries welcome.
Good pet homes only. 

Found this on the web, On same page link to Rescue   I rest my case

Well that is more than I charged for my pups of a rare breed!

Marianne

Not sure what your case is that you are resting Megaloo :) but I certainly agree if it is that this is an outrageous price for a cross breed pup.  The usual just vet checked stuff no mention of KC/BVA health screened parents :( 
It is good that they are looking for decent homes for them but it would have been better if they had prevented the mating happening in the first place.

Sorry wrong wording Rest my case. Digusted really at the price and people falling for what they call a breed which is not. Sorry

I posted another thread re Goldendoodles I have lost it somewhere I thought I had posted it. in a new topic?????????? Regards Meg

So your freinds breed labrador crosses.. I won't even use the word :-) 

Why not just have the poodle or the labrador.. they are both nice dogs. No excuse for it I think :-)

>I think you do all need to get over yourselves - it is amazing how much interest the Labradoodle attracts on here >.... you are all resentful of the attention and popularity of this dog, and it clearly eats away at some people.

A lot of us would be VERY happy for our breed/s to have less attention. My main breed is a well kept secret almost and it would be nice to think it can remain like that. (We are getting CCs for the first time next year and several of us even objected to that!) Many of us actuallty DREAD the day a breed we own go BIS at Crufts, because increased popularity (especially due to media attention!) usually spells nothing but bad news for a breed. Too many people wanting them equals too many people breeding them for the wrong reasons.

Marianne

>Too many people wanting them equals too many people breeding them for the wrong reasons

Good post Marianne,  Teri :)

Thanks Teri :)

Marianne

>> A lot of us would be VERY happy for our breed/s to have less attention. ... (We are getting CCs for the first time next year and several of us even objected to that!) Many of us actuallty DREAD the day a breed we own go BIS at Crufts, because increased popularity (especially due to media attention!) usually spells nothing but bad news for a breed. Too many people wanting them equals too many people breeding them for the wrong reasons.

I couldn't agree more :( Our breed are also gainng CC's next year and I dread to think what the popularity would be like if they ever went BIS. We have enough problems with puppy farmers now!

A very interesting post Zoes Mum

I think you do all need to get over yourselves
Sour grapes or what !
those who make completely unfounded assumptions based on their own ignorance.
A lot of you do seem to have your priorities completely wrong.

especially as only last month you posted

All I am saying is that there is a way of saying things, and the messages left for this person, were in my opinion rather arrogant and sarcastic.
What a horrible high and mighty attitude you lot have !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)

LOL Val

Good point Val ;)

Val :-D :-D  Good for the goose and all that ;-)

>So what if most breeds were established years ago .... say way back in the 1830's ??

Don't you think by now there are enough breeds for anyone to chose from, without having to create more? And don't forget, back many years ago when most breeds were created, they were created for an actual REASON -not because they LOOKED nice. I.e. the Golden Retriever was created when guns were improved so birds could be shot during flight at a greater distance than before, and so they needed dogs that were bred to ONLY retrieve. Even pure pet breeds were created for a reason, whether it makes sense now or not. The cavalier (or as it was then, the King Charles and before then, the Toy Spaniel) were created to be cute and friendly but small enough for rich ladies to carry around with them in the belief that the fleas on the OWNER would jump onto the dog instead! :D A bigger dog wouldn't have done as it couldn't be carried around. :D

Marianne