where are the areas of shows shes going to i blinking hope she dosent come to our companion show we are putting on! i cant belive that behavior its so childish and pathetic, and the mother should no better!, im also getting a few judging apiontments through for comanion shows so hope she dont tun up! hay what is shes on this board watching us!! :O
Fiona

We've only seen her in the Berkshire & Surrey areas so i hope your safe but on the other hand if it is in these areas i'll be there with my motley tribe of 4 plus mum in tow of course.

yes ive only seen her in the Surrey area, she trains with Rushmoor dog training club - not a very good advert for them though :(

Rushmoor training (Junior handlers) doesn't have the best of reputations on outside of the ring.  To the judges they come across (the ones I've judged) very nice, although their handling isn't my preferance and they are all so similar its hard judges 6-7 of them in 3 classes because they are all clones (nealry!) however I will give them their due, after coming under me once, the 2nd time round at another show a year later they all handled to the style I prefere.

However if you think this is bad try having an adult handler (of not a young age) shout at the judge so everyone ringside can hear that you (the judge) can't judge and don't know a triangle!!!!!! 

Well excuse me I didn't agree with his triagle and I didn't see the top 3 handlers go between dog and judge, and neither did my steward or other handlers!  Infact everyone else seemed happy with their place, one women over the moon!!!

What ever happend to the judges decsion is final!? 

So it's not only juniors and their mothers.

Terry, it's great about the young child handling one of your dogs!  Did you hear about (can't remember names!) ARGH!!!  Qualifying for richmond with sonja my aussie?  I only found out my dog had been lent out afew weeks after the show.  She's another young girl who goes in and enjoys it 100% (and seems to take in everything Joe tells her!)

I wonder if their will ever be a time when all juniors go in for fun, wether win or loose they will be happy! 

I agree with Fiona though, the breed ring is better then the handling ring.  Although I will always love handling, it's become too serious and theres too much bitchness (maybe it's because theirs too many girls in it!!!!!)

Hi Rox, i just have to say you no exactly how to do a perfect triangle in any shape ring let alone judge it!! Now i dont want to judge! What has happend to the judges decsion is final??

I also wonder how many junior handlers go in because there mothers force them to? Also the mother acting like this is telling the child this is the way to behave so the child will in later years!! Glad im safer in norfolk!

Fiona

Oh dear this is a shame.  in the companion show we used to run untill the organisation went bankrupt we only had 5 classes when the new ruling came out.  We always had 5 (always added KCJO stakes) but removed this to put in the junior class.  most of your money was made by the novelty classes.  We saw crossbreed and crossbreed come back every year, these dogs would go in 3-5 different classes.  The pedigree dogs went into one!!!!!!  Admitidly we don't often put our dogs into novelty classes, because they are show dogs and we like to see the much loved, little crossbreed that lives in the town/village win!

You may be a moaning minnie but you have every right.  people shouldn't go and do what she's doing!!!! 

Hi
We went to the show in Slough and met some friends there who had a sibe from us. Their daughter has never handled before so we asked her is she wanted to have a go with one of ours. she did some practice and in she went. The dog had never seen her before and tried the usual tricks (sitting down. having a scratch ) and she worked really hard with him talking all the time etc. he moved like a dream with her and she got a fourth. we were over the moon for her and she came out the ring with a grin like a cheshire cat. I was in the pedigree ring and heard the sniping from mum whos daughter had come over into our ring about " no compition today" me and my big gob started a conversation about spoilt jnr handlers and mums who live their lives through them. Mum promtly moved away. as we moved around the ring, we came leave with her again and she said that my dog looked very nice and should do well, was it hard to handle. I being polite said yes that she was quiet hard. But that " I enjoyed the handling" she then asked if i entered in adult handling and I said no that I had been showing dogs on and off since i was a kid. I then heard her say to the kid " no ambition" 
Me i just love my dogs.
And may I add that when i came out the ring my friends daughter came over and offered me her Prize and rossette, because it was my dog that she had handled. Thats what i call a nice junr handler.
terry

awwwwwwwww Terry thats a lovely story and a true jh, bet she was well pleased. I dont see why you have no ambition you breed outstanding dogs! i prefer the breed ring to the jh ring! i was thinking today how much showing has tought me.

Fiona

Hi Fiona
I have to say that you are my sort of junior handler. you dont just walk into the ring and expect to win. you also put all the hard work into the grooming and care of your dogs. I judged jnr handling a few months ago and when i asked one of the handlers how old the dog was she had to ask her mum and when i asked a boy handler what breed his dog was and what group did it belong to he just said "dunno" I think that the handlers that look after their dogs at home have a better bonding with the dog in the ring.
Just my thoughts
terry

Hi Terry,
Thanks for the JH coment, i groom all the dogs i take in the ring and others as well, both breeds are challenging to trim but when you do it well and win its makes it that bit more special. I cant belive she didnt even no the simple thing of how old the dog was!! even the group the dogs in or breed!! I do agree with your bonding thoughts Terry.
I bet some of them wouldnt even think about biulding a website eather.

Fiona

Hi Baylee, I know of this Mother and Daughter combination too and see them at alot of Companion Shows. I have to say there behaviour is appalling what kind of person returns Rosette's? What do there three dogs mean to them? What are they going to do if one of there dogs dosen't win Best in Show enough, will they return it to the Breeder??? It really makes you wonder...... And what kind of example and values is she setting to her daughter! I do believe that this woman is really making herself very unpopular, do you think she realises???

I was at the Show on Sunday in Slough and had a lovely day! I was also very pleased when my Beagle "Bert" got placed 6th over one of her dogs in the AV Sporting ( to be honest I was quite shocked to even get placed as it was a big class with lots of very nice dogs and my boy is castrated ). You not moaning either as this woman really anoysme to along with alot of other people aswell by the detail in this post. Might see you at some other dog shows, I have a Tri Beagle!

I have recently judged a companion show my prettiest bitch was a 'sprocker' and my handsome dog was a mini wire dach. 

Thank goodness i didnt have any junior handlers such as this one. Mine were all very polite and hard to place. The same juniors were also in the fancy dress which was impossible to judge they were really fab all made such an effort which makes the show so much nicer.

Hi Dude Dog, Did you have a min poodle dressed up as a pirate and a young girl? I think they won a class together recentally.

Fiona

Rox..... going back a few posts lol
i think puppies as well seem to win prittiest bitch, hettie did twice when she was a puppy :)

I HAVE JUST DISCOVERED BY THE 2005 WINSDOR CHAMPIONSHIP SHOW RESULTS THAT THIS MOTHER OF THE JUNIOR HANDLER HAS BEEN SHOWING HER "CHAMPION PBGV - Willowbrae Archie Rice Sh.CM" AT COMPANION SHOWS WHEN WE ALL KNOW THAT DOGS WITH CC'S, JUNIOR WARRANT ETC CAN'T ENTER COMPANION SHOWS!!!!

are you sure its the same dog ? they might have more than one :)

I'm pretty sure as he is the darker one of the two and I have heard her call him by the name of Archie, I will do my best to confirm this but I really think it's the same dog.

ShCM is not a champion title it is Show Certificate of Merit and is awarde for points won at Open shows, so would be eligible for Companion shows if he does not ahve a CC or RCC.

BIG SORRY, I thought ShCM meant Champion, honest mistake I should have got my facts straight.

Ah yes, I thought you meant Champion which also had a ShCm :)

Can shed a little light on this, apparently her veteran does have a CC which i believe is the one called Archie.  I was at a show when an annoymous letter (no it was not me) was sent to the organisers stating this fact.  The organiser showed her the letter because she felt that she had the right to know and the handler stated that he could not be shown in the pedigree section because of his CC but was perfectly entitled to enter the novelty classes, i believe this is in fact correct but as i am not that well up with rules & regulations i can't confirm that fact.  Perhaps someone else can.  

She has certainly got on the wrong side of a lot of people hasnt she.

I personally wouldnt have a problem with a dog with a CC doing the novelty classes but I think it might be against the rules still :)

It's only the pedigree classes KC Rules F(3).3.72/5.d.1

The rules in question do only apply to pedigree classes. 

Though it still sounds like she has upset many people and isn't very popular in her area!

I have spoken to her before now at shows and she seems quite nice.  However if from what I have heard about her attitude at companion shows it sounds like she is a really nasty person.

Btw didn't someone say she had moaned about novelty classes being "worthless" or something like that?  So why would she want to enter such classes ;)

Can the Kennel Club confirm if a dog has won a CC? If so will they have that information avaliable to the public?

Yes, and yes. None of that is secret.
:)

I think the only classes she enters in novelty is Junior Handling (well her daughter) and veteran.  I don't remember seeing her in anything else but i must admit i have not really been looking.  I also think that it should not matter in novelty because a CC won't help it win waggy tail or i'm sure handsome dog (don't get me started again on that one, still cannot make the line up with my Mr G because he's too pretty - winge, winge, winge)

I have seen her at about five Companion Shows this year and at each show she has entered both her PBGV in AV Sporting or Hound etc and Open ( 1 dog in each class ). At aleast two of these shows she has won "Best in Show" on one occasion she won Best in Show with one dog and her daughter won Reserve Best in Show with the other. I only notice as I have a hound and she's always in the same classes as me, oh and I have witnessed her rudeness so I always keep an eye on her just to see what going on.

If I can confirm for sure her Archie has won a CC next time I see her at a Companion Show I will ask her straight out, does he have one? and if so could you please not enter him in Companion Show and to respect the rules as that is why the KC have them.

I enter my CC winning boy in the novelty classes, but he's too pretty for Handsomest dog too! Perhaps I should tape his bits up and put him in prettiest bitch instead?????  :-)

That's what i'm going to do at the next Companion Show for a laugh (athough i won't tape his bit up, his bobs have already gone), i'll just sneak in and see if i'm noticed, of course when he's pulled out FIRST i'll have to confess and go back to square one but i'll have tasted the sweet success of not just being in the line up with him but at the head of it however fleetingly.  Sorry have to go now the men in the white coats are knocking at the door.

Have fun everyone.

Yeah, and my bitch puppy has a plain head that might be forgiven on a dog puppy - I think I need some surgery to swap their bits over??? Or just surgery on my own head? :-)

Baylee, how many petties does she have/take/enter at the companion shows? 

Ice Queen, My Mr G has been entering handsome dog for the last 18 months (when there is one) and has only had one 3rd (only 3 in the class), he's a whippet/saluki cross so i suppose he is pretty really, i try and give the judges a hint by saying "what a handsome young man you are" as they walk past, but they just laugh and say how pretty he is. But one day someone out there will think he is handsome and we will win.  Next attempt tomorrow (weather permitting) plus pretty bitch if i dare.

Must admit i'm not sure what i would do if he actually got anywhere, my goal in life would have been taken away.  Now there's always crufts for my veteran Irish Setter!!!!!

Hi Ice Queen, When I have seen her she has only had the one PBGV and a whippet :)

Just that her bitch won RCC (well done to them!) at paignton...if her dog already has won such an award it now only leaves the whippit! :)

Ice Queen,

So Sorry had a brian storm with my answer to your question last week (I blame the heat).  She takes 2 PBGV's with her plus the whippet.  The other week she went BIS with one PBGV and her daughter RBIS with another PBGV, the whippet was second in veteran.  I don't know whether one of the winners was her veteran or if she had another PBGV which would make 3 in total plus whippet.  There was no PBGV in the veteran class. 

Have found out they have 3 PBGV's (one of which is retired) and a whippit!

Don't worry about going off.  I keep doing/saying what is not wanted with this heat :(  I'm getting fed up of this muggy weather :(

Thanks for the info, I now have the proof that one of her dogs has a RCC. I have no issue at all telling her to pull her dog out of a Pedigree Classes ( that's if I see she has actually enter that particular dog in a Pedigree Class at a Companion Show ). I'm pleased for her doing well with her dogs and she may even no longer enter that particular in Companion Shows anymore. We shall see........

Although this couple's attitute may be wrong I also think that the judge was  wrong in this instance. Even at Companion shows the dogs should be judged on their relative merits and not placed in order to share out the prizes or penalised because they had already won or are 'proper' show dogs. Do you not think that this is just as unfair to those who have gone to the time and trouble to train ( especially when it comes to junior handling ?).

Many, many show folk use companion shows to bring out youngsters and are we really saying that they and their dogs should be penalised ? - there are always the novelty classes to give the pet people an opportunity to win something but when I enter with my new hopefuls I do expect to be judged fairly :(

Yvonne

But Yvonne, surely at a companion show which allows pet people to participate shouldn't they be allowed to gain something?  A lot of CDS have lots of prizes on offer.  Should the big show winner be allowed to win them all?  Yes it's a training ground but it's abit of fun.  I do try and vary the winners when I judge.  I will try to make sure those obvious pet people who are out for a fun day get to go home with something. 

Isn't a CDS about fun and not about serious competition!?

Many times I have been knocked both in handling (when i was young enough!) and breed with my dogs. 

I once got chucked out of handling beaten by my two friends who were at their first ever dog show!  They got a 2nd and 3rd and I didn't hear the last of it!!! :D  Did I make a fuss...(Well I trainned two novice handlers in about 30 mins to be able to beat me...surely thats good ;) )

Theres nothing worse at a CDS then one person going home with all the prizes!  Lets keep competitive competition for championship shows!

"surely at a companion show which allows pet people to participate shouldn't they be allowed to gain something? "

Not if they don't have a better dog than the show people ! - that is just dishonest judging - why bother holding a show at all if you are not going to judge fairly ? - you may as well just hand out the rosettes equally as folk enter their dogs without the pretence of going over them !.

Why patronise folk in this way ? - a companion show is after all a SHOW and should be judged according to the same principles as others. Most of us in the show world started out at exemption show level and have worked hard to improve our dogs and our handling why should we be penalised for this ? - if pet people want to win they will need to put in the same amount of hard work and dedication - or else stick to the novelty classes :D.

Yvonne

I get annoyed when people pass comments about my cavaliers because they are always presented clean & groomed & show their little sox off One chap at the last show I went to has a grossly obese Rottweiler that could never stand or gait properly His owner moaned like mad because my JD beat his dog. JD is a very very fit & active dog who is always shown in hard dry condition & moves like a train & he also won the best tail wagger ! because he naturally wags his tail all the time ;)

I only have my Cavaliers to show so why can't i have a bit of fun & support my local charity, I even heard a woman complain because my 16 year old rescue mongrel won best veteran & best rescue because I also had my pedigree dogs :( She too was always shown bathed & groomed & fit

Can't wait to show my new puppy bet I get moaned at for that as well !

Good job it's like water off a ducks back :D

Yes but the pedigree classes still need to be judged on the dogs quality, all one should do is not penalise lack of handling ability of the handler or ring training of the exhibit.

The NOVELTY classes are where the Pet dogs should hope to score, and here the judge can share things around.

Many dog people show their first good dog and subsequent youngsters at a Companion show where the judge spots the quality and encourages them to take things further. 

Would be a shame if a good prosepect was penalised, and the owner assumed it wasn't good enough to try it at a higher level.

Although this couple's attitude may be wrong I also think that the judge was  wrong in this instance. Even at Companion shows the dogs should be judged on their relative merits and not placed in order to share out the prizes or penalised because they had already won or are 'proper' show dogs. Do you not think that this is just as unfair to those who have gone to the time and trouble to train ( especially when it comes to junior handling ?).

Many, many show folk use companion shows to bring out youngsters and are we really saying that they and their dogs should be penalised ? - there are always the novelty classes to give the pet people an opportunity to win something but when I enter with my new hopefuls I do expect to be judged fairly :(

Yvonne

I also think the difficulty of the dog the Juniors are handling should be taken into consideration as well.  The PBGV & Whippet in question are both well schooled and behave impecably so are therefore easy to handle, compared to say a young gundog who has a mind of its own.  After all its the handling of the dog that is being judged and although the young lady in question is without doubt a good handler has she ever been seen with a dog that is not so well schooled. How does she handle them.  I gave a young lad with a Viszla a first over a girl with a whippet because of the difficulty between the dogs.  The young girl and the whippet just stood there, while the boy had to struggle with his dog but never gave up and remained calm and gentle towards his Vizla, i know some people would disagree with me on this point but i do feel strongly it is the handling and not the dog that should be judged. 

Baylee, I Agree with you on that point! :) I have been though the stage of a 7 year old handling a handlful setter! and now a 17 year old handling well schooled setters and aussies!!!! :D (Still not perfect though...3 year old dog jumping in the ring...Hmmm....

I agree too Bayley, I was once given first place in JH and I was handling an Afghan who was extremely hand shy and I was given first because although he was a very difficult dog I handled him well - and calm, shame the same cant be said now for when I handle my hooligan setter :rolleyes:

I also agree with you Yvonne, the best dogs should get the prizes whether pet or show :)