I'm sure they have - I happen to think they are lovely dogs. But I wouldn't pay anyone over the odds for a puppy *just* because thats the going rate that others are prepared to pay - whatever the breed.

What I'd like to know is: those breeders whose dogs have a normal birth - do they charge less fees per pup, or do they stay on the bandwagon and charge £2K each?

The problem is that everyone has to charge the same amount, which is the going rate. If a breeder decides to sell their puppies for less they are seen to be selling "below average" pups, decent people who want a quality, well bred pup, ask why are they cheeper? there must be a reason for the price difference? etc etc. Can you see my point? I paid £1800 and don't regret it for one minute. This was not the dearest or cheepest, but the best breeder I could find IMO. I am not saying £2k is right but it is the going rate at the moment, hopefully this will be changing soon.

i agree tigerlilly,theres nothing we want more,wed love the price to come right down but i think they will always sell for quite a lot anyway.

I do see your point. But I also know of a good breeder who sells pups for £800 because she feels that £2K per pup is unethical and extortionate. If I were breeding these dogs I would be looking for the right homes for them - and that would be more important than the going rate.

Its just another one of those things you will see spiralling out of control... the breed with become more popular, more pups will be bred, the price will start to come down and they will be just like any other breed - victim of its own success. Which is a big shame :(

I had a very good chat with a friend of mine last night that breeds Bulldogs (She lost a litter last year and the Dam). She certainly does not charge £2000 for a puppy either, she makes sure homes are well vetted, she has an extensive waiting list and puppy owners are chosen very carefully (more on who she likes rather than their position on her list) she likes her pups to go to family homes and tries to avoid people looking for a brood bitch at all costs.  Shes very picky as to where her pups end up!  She also tends to avoid the dog fraternity at all costs and just keeps herself to herself ( she has however shown her dogs in the past )

She said some people charge this amount to stop pups being sold on at a profit through free ads, but this is not going to stop people who are buying pups at say £1800 knowing they can get more than that through the free ads.  This seems to be a vicious circle, puppy farmers raise the price, so then breeders follow suit.

Yes the resale value is worrying.  In a breed like mine once past the four mont stage you are looking at half the price,a dn for a dog over a eyar you would expect it to be free to a good home.  There have been a number of people who had bought pups from commercial kennels and down the line wanted to get rid of them and try and sell tehm.  When they found no buyers they ended up in rescue, so I suppose demand is what drives prices to stupid levels.

It all depends on how badly you want one. If this friend of yours is very picky then there is certainly not enough pups to go around to all the people who want one at that price, so people look elsewhere, where the price is higher and if they want one then they pay it. I would very worry about the resale in a bulldog that cheap, people can pretend they are a loving family then sell it on ad-mart etc for alot more. However carefully you vet a home you can never be 100% sure they wont be sold on. With bulldogs being a high price it is very unlikely you could sell one on for more money than you paid, unless they did well in the show ring. All dogs value goes down as they get older, bulldogs included. It also stops every tom, dick and harry buying one as an impulse buy. There are not many Bulldogs in rescue, obviously there are some, but not many compared to other breeds.

A dog is worth what you are willing to pay, to say no dog is worth £2k is silly, if someone wants to buy one at that price then it is worth that to them. You can not generalise like that. It is the same with anything, cars for example some people pay £45k for a range rover for example, when I think that is well over priced, but if people are prepared to pay it then that is that. Bulldogs are not the only breed that fetch this price, but if the price is that and there continues to be people who want them so much they will pay that, then what is the problem? :-)

Tigerlily I actaully wrote<sorry but no dog is worth £2,000 as an eight week old puppy> & there is a problem when people see & pay that for a dog lots will expect to be able to make similar money so will breed to the nearest dog to get puppies(this happens locally to me a puppy bulldog had a litter at 10 months in the paper for £2.000 & they got it next season bred again & then again & again they have now kept a bitch puppy & a dog(from sep litters & yes they will be bred together on the bitches first season They have moved house & got a brand new car all paid for by the puppies & they sell them to anyone who pays the asking price)& I too think that RRs are well over priced I drive a modest paid for from my salary Subaru Impreza

how the hell did they register them? you should have reported them,i certainly wouldnt pay 2000 for an unregistered puppy and just to let you know my car is a v reg estate that cost less than 3000,this is my family car and dog car too,i am not flash at all and after expenses taken out my money goes back into feeding and looking after my dogs,
oohh if only i could have a subaru impreza! wouldnt want one anyway as the dogs wouldnt squeeze in it! these people are pet breeders for sure and disgust all bulldog lovers,they buyers must be thick to buy from them when theres enough reputable breeders to buy from.half will probably not end up looking like a bulldog as they are putting anything to anything,poor babies and mummies.

They also have an older bulldog bitch who they have the papers for but has been spayed does that given you a clue(not hearsay as they show another breed(but don't breed them)  & go to a club where every litter is thought to be super) so not hard to register the litters from the underage bitch is it. The info came straight from their mouths at a companion show

Report them to who ? They have less than 5 litters a year so don't need a breeders licence & the KC don't give a monkeys as long as they get their money

My dogs(they were BCs & Cavaliers)never had to squeeze into my car(it is a station wagon BTW) as it was for them & not people only reason I changed it was for the AC for the dogs.

I disagree slightly. This lady has people on her waiting lists for months and months - these are not the types to re-sell the dog on ad-trader. Which would you be happier with as a breeder: your puppy going to a family you have gotten to know and who have waited and waited patiently for a pup - or one that turns up with £2K of readies on the doorstep?

I don't think you can compare dogs and cars. A mercedez will cost more, but retain more value than a Ford. However, they are pretty much the same underneath it all - they get you from a to b. A dog is a dog, whatever the breed - and at ten years old its worth nothing - be it a BD or a mongrel.

Finally, I have no problem with folk paying what they want for a dog - its their choice. I do have a problem with breeders blatently charging overinflated prices with no real reason for doing so, and then getting all defensive when folk discuss the huge profits they are making. I also have a problem with repeated c-sections on a bitch just for the sake of breeding. And finally, I seriously hope they are all paying tax on the money earned - because it seems to me that two litters a year from a bitch with 6 pups is a very nice annual salary!

I agree Chloe a dog is a living breathing animal that has feelings, as car is a mechanical device like you say that gets you from A to B you cannot compare the two.

so chloe are you suggesting im getting defensive about the cost as this wasnt the original issue here at all,you are way off mark,i do not get huge profits either,ive said before i had one litter of two that cost approx 1200/1300 to get,then cost of feeding,ringcraft twice a week,show fees etc etc,hardly a profit dear is it! no def not,i get more fun from training and showing than selling.and as for the tax man hed prob owe me,i keep reciepts from everything my dogs cost so no worries there,its them blooming pet breeders selling unregistered puppies thats the real problem.
do you not breed then chloe? if you do then you will know the expense rearing a litter costs.

No, I don't breed but I have in the past and I know how much litters cost to rear, thanks.

what im saying is we are not all out to make a profit chloe,far from it! if you mean pet breeders then please state that as im bound to get defensive,we all know about breeders like the ones moonmaiden is on about and they are despicable,wish i knew who they were ,they are frauding arnt they.they are taking peoples money and the papers are from the wrong dogs,they are animals themselves imo.they will prob put the bitches in rescue when theyve done breeding too and people like myself have to listen to another heartbreak story,it so angers me to hear this. i dont know any pet breeders myself as in the showing side its a different world,we try to breed healthily and to the standard,perhaps when the prices drop pet people will think twice about breeding them so much,i do hope so.

well this person sounds like a responsible breeder moll moo,i am the same,i only let mine go to family homes,no young youths and such like,i make sure at least one person is at home with them too,a good home is the most important thing to me too but with prices like 800 people could easily afford that and just buy to breed,im sure the prices will come down and theres nothing i want more,does your friend put endorsements on her babies? i see a lot going through freeads too and a lot of them are from the pet breeders,however some pet breeders are genuine and use good stock and do it as a hobby breeder,i dont mind that either,i have even seen some for 2400 and i think they have gone way over the top with prices like this, a few of my friends have put their prices down too as they think its too much,i can agree on what you are saying here,the thing that bothered me was people thinking im a greedy breeder,im not at all,i love my dogs and have 6 bulldogs and do not breed on every season like some,i have one 3 years old nearly that has never had a litter in her life,shes been shown too and is well bred,i may have a litter from her when i want a new baby for myself to show,there are genuine bulldog people out there and we shouldnt all be marked with the same brush,some people rehome theirs after breeding is done with but at least i keep mine as they are part of my family,hope this sorts some of this debate out,
louzola

Yes all her pups leave with endorsments :)
I dont think anyone was implying that you yourself are a greedy person Louzola, If it came across like that from myself then I apologise :) I think its fair to say there are greedy people within all breeds, not just the Bulldog.

I myself am a bit discusted at the amount well bred Corsos are selling for, but more discusted at puppy farmers and BYB for selling pups at a high price that have parents that are not health tested as I said its a vicious circle :(

her pups are worth more than 800 though!!! lol

  Reading through this tread makes my very sad, I dont own a Bulldog ,but i do like  them.

Why are some people so against these dogs, yes they have health problems, but dont most pedigree dogs, some more tham others (my own breed included).

We are all different and all like different breeds so why can`t we agree to disagree, without pulling people and there dogs apart.

As to the cost ,o.k they are very expensive. If people are prepared to pay that for a well breed healthy dog, (ok you my not agree with the c-cection)then surely thats up to them.   As for,  you can get 2 of this 5 of that, sounds like children squabbling in the playground.

It is such a shame when this board turns into a "we know better than you" and "our veiw is the only right one", because there is a wealth of knowlege on this board ,and it saddens me when i see people bullying others .

No dout some people will take offence at this , I hope not, just trying to get people back on track , giving out good and honest advice,

This is one of the reasons i do`nt come onto this board very often any more, it just seems to be happening more and more,  which is a shame for me and people like me who come here to lean.

Again i am not getting at anyone in particular ,  It`s just how i see it.

Thanks for listening

Jackie

I don't beleive anyones is agains the breed only against explotation of bitches and the breed by some (I hesitate to call them breeders) producers of pups.  I pointed out that the kennel club have amended the standard so that responsible breeders can address ehalth issues, but this is not helped by the vast majority of litters being produced by cash croppers breeding without a care to health or standard for exorbitant prices.  Because of the demand even breeders who would wihs the price to be more reasonable cannot charge much lesss for fear of the dogs being resold.

actually yes moll moo,i was invited to a health check and passed,yippee!! what business is it of yours wether mine self whelp or not,what if i did a c section? my dogs are very healthy thankyou,are yours? you said one of yours had a c section,why was this? and what breed?

Read my post Louzola you will see what breeds I own, why on earth are you so defensive?

Because everyone is "assuming" she is a cruel breeder (letting her bitch have more than one c-section) and that all bulldogs are unhealthy and shouldn't be bred from, wouldn't you defend your breed if people were saying those things?

Louzola, ignore it, not worth the energy it takes to type a reply.

No one is assuming nothing of the sort where in this thread does it say that?  This thread started off as calm really saying how things normally go with these threads, like everyone I am genuinely intrested as to WHY breeders of Bulldogs allow more than one c-section or is this just another thread where answers get swept under the carpet -  Are we not allowed to ask genuine questions?

I think Louzola has explained why she breeds, enough said. What else do you want to know that hasn't already been said?

so your breed needed a c section too then!! i will always defend my breed against people of your nature,i mean youve not been the friendliest person on this forum have you. and for some reason you love slating the bulldogs saying we are greedy and such like.you know some thats died having c sections,i dont and they are my breed and i show all over the country,who are these people,pet breeders? do they have the knowledge of bulldogs? did they use healthy stock?

My dog needed a ceaser because two pups were stuck (she whelped two on her own) and she WAS NEVER bred from again.  I cant be bothered with this thread anymore these debates always get heated, thanks for the derogortary remarks because you are not so great yourself :)

how do you know im not great,you dont even know me,goodbye moll moo!

Bulldogs cost what they do because people are prepared to pay that for them, me included. I wanted a bulldog so I bought one, if I have the money and want one then what business is it to anyone else? Being the price that they are stops the market being flooded with them, unlike other "over bred" breeds. Health problems are caused by bad breeding not the breed, my two are as fit as any other dog and they run, jump and play like madmen :-D Their breathing is perfect and they are incredibly healthy, because they were bred well. This is where the problems are, with all breeds, when they are badly bred.

The c-section thing I think should be limited to a max of 3, and all the breeders I know will do no more than 3. To anyone who says "you could have 10 of my breed for that price", I didn't want your breed, I wanted a bulldog. Come on everyone, each to their own ;-)

very good point Katie :-)