I was thinking more of the risk to the lady in Edinburgh's puppies.  Christines pups are thought to be suffering from fading puppy syndrome of which the causes seem multiple but could well mean they are carrying an infection.  The chances of caring for them and maintaining a high enough level of isolation and disinfection before also caring for the other litter seems a tall order to me.  I agree with you it would be better for mum and pups to get back on the milk bar as soon as possible.

i know what you are saying about the foster mum, i just thought it was a good idea at the time, now since i have seen the puppies this evening i can see that this is not a good idea to travel, dont think either myself or the lady in edinburgh even thought about the infection aspect, i thought it was a good idea, how wrong it seems i am,   some of these puppies seem to be doing great but until i actually saw them i did not realise that some of these puppies are as weak as they seemed but they picked up a little after a feed , however with all the love & 24 hour round the clock attention christine is giving them i pray they all come through this, & yes they definately are little fighters & sooooooooooooo cute, keep up the good work christine you are doing a fantastic job, i will help out whenever i can, dont hesitate to phone me anytime of day or night

I spoke to Christine on the phone this morning and sadly, she has lost another two of the pups. :(

:-(

Hi there so sorry to hear about these poor pups but if it is any use I can tel you about how we saved our fading litter recently.

We lost the mum after an emergency delivery and the pups started fading at 10 days, after we had lost 3 babes I trawled the net for tips and did the following; the ill pups were placed over a microwave heat pad as hot as you dare and re heated regularly then covered so they do not lay directly on it and the small box they were in was then covered with a towel (this amount of heat was worrying but they were dying so anything was worth a go) this elevates their temperature and if it is CHV the high temp stops it attacking the pups, they were offered rehydrating fluid once an hour and given hourly doses of nutri drops for energy when they started to perk up they were offered their milk feed although the pups had ups and downs over the next few days every time they went downhill we began the process again and miraculously they all pulled through and we had 5 normal pups who went to their new homes at 8 weeks. I have kept contact and all are still very normal puppies.

The vet couldn't believe so many survived as when he saw them they were crying pityfully and he told us to accept they wouldn't pull through he was amazed they passed their 8 week check with flying colours. It may just be our good luck this worked but I would definitely do it again if needed.  Good luck fingers crossed for you.

Oh Christine,
Im so sorry, to hear of your losses. I read the original post of pepsi giving birth. And I think a lot of us. Where so happy to hear of there arrival.

And to now read this post is just awful. I will keep my fingers crossed for your pups and mum.

And Kay you are a true star. Someone who will, just go literally out of there way to help. And there aint many of them about.

Thinking of you all

Alix

Oh hell - it's so unfair.  My thoughts and prayers are with Christine at this horrendous time.  Thanks Kayc for your ongoing support for her.

Hya.  Sorry I have'nt kept you all up to date much.  Just very busey.  As you'll know we lost two of the bigger puppies last night, two brindal boys.  They just seem to sleep and lose their strengh.  Thankfully they did'nt seem to be in any pain.  They were'nt crying or anything, just sleeping.  Thats my bad news. 
Good news is, the rest of the pups seem to be doing really well today, going from strengh to strengh.  Even the white bitch is a little fighter and what a suck she has on her now.  Most of them seem to have put on a lot of weight too.  To me they almost look double the size they were when they were really poorley.  Two, the white one and a dark brindal are still quite sleek but they are both sucking well when being fed.  Best of all, they are all attempting to feed off pepsi.  I have had the vet out again to her, as her temp was up again, but he has given her anti-inflamitories and she should start to feel better later tonight.  They are not dehydrated now either which must be a good sign.  I hope I'm not just being over optimistic but I think they are going from strengh to strengh although there's a long way to go yet. 

Thats great news Christine. especially the little white one, guess who my favorite is :)

And just to put the record straight, I have had nothing to do with this, I only phoned Christine this morning and spoke to her for the 1st time since Friday, just to see how things were going.  All the hard work and everything else has been done by Christine herself. Credit where credit is due, and that is with Christine alone.

Just got back from my holiday and spent the last 2 hours reading your posts, CONGRATULATIONS on the birth of pepsi's puppies, and I feel for you with what you pepsi and puppies have been through. I am so glad that things are picking up for you now and what wonderful support you have had from many people here on CD. I feel less worried about Jenna having pups now, knowing that we have very kind people here offering help and support, 'God bless you all'.

Lynn

Glad to hear the pup's are doing better,,,god bless them all

Thank you all.  Fingers crossed, they are still suckelling well.  Most of them are feeding off mum so it means that they do not need as much from me.  I've just weighed them and all have put on a average of 2oz today.  I'm actually going to go and have a bath.  I stink!! Once again thank you all.  christine x

hi christine, hope pups are doing well & pepsi feeling better, pups sound as they are doing great now, sorry about losing the 2 boys, pray all goes well from now
take care & keep up the fab work, everyone admires what you have done with these puppies, 

I second that Spaniel Mad - Well done Christine for all your hard work - here's hoping there's nothing but joy in the pipeline for you now

{{{hugs}}}
:)

Got all fingers and claws crossed in this household! Even the cats;-) :-D

Well done Christine you are doing brilliantly, keep up the good work.xxx

So glad to hear that things are looking up :) But soooo sorry about the loss of the little ones :(
Thinking about you all and likewise fingers, toes, and claws crossed here
Anne

Hya,  Just a little update on pepsi and pups.  Puppies seem to be going from strength to strength.  The small white bitch (which my boys have called Sprite) is now 15oz and the rest range up to 22oz, so they seem to be catching up weight wise.  Their eyes are just starting to open too.  Unfortunately pepsi is not feeling too well today.  She has started this morning being sick and has the skwitz.  I'll keep an eye on her and if she's no better later on I'll take her back to the vets.  I've no idea what could be the cause of this.  Any ideas?  Once again thank you all for your help over the last few weeks.  If it was'nt for you all, puppies may not have made it through.  christine x.

Christine, if it wasn't for YOU the pups would not have made it through!

Delighted to hear all are well.  {{{hugs}}} for Pepsi - hope she feels better soon :)

Hi Christine.
So pleased to hear everything going well now.
Keep up the good work, you are a marvel.
Love and Hugs
Jane x

You have done a marvellous job Christine, :)

I took pepsi to the vets this afternoon as they were a bit concerned that maybe they might have missed something with her being sick and having the heebie jeebies.  It turns out that she just needs another course of antibiotics.  It may have been because she had finished the last course yesturday that gave her upset stomoch etc.  She does seem to be abit better tonight and has eaten her dinner.  She does seem to want to spend less time at the moment in her whelping box with her puppies.  Is this normal?  I have been trying to get her to go back in with them as much as possible.  Maybe she just needs a bit of a break.  I was shown a litter of lab pups today, born on same day as pepsis pups and the lab pups were huge!  They looked twice the size.  Now I'm a bit paranoid that they are'nt putting on enough weight, although the vets are really pleased with their progress.  How much weight should puppies be putting on, on average per day?  The heaviest pups are 22oz on day 8, do you think this sounds okay for breed?  christine x.

It is normal for the mum to spend less time in with the pups as they grow on.  I would expect the lab pups to be bigger especially with yours having a slow start but there is no reason for them not to catch up to their potential if all goes well from now on.
I do hope, knowing that there has been infection in your house, you did not go to see the Labs without having a full shower, hair wash and complete change of cloths and shoes and then not entering the room with Pepsi and pups before leaving the house.  Personally I would not have gone and kept myself in purdah.

Whatever weight they are they are ALIVE, and will almost certainly catch up once they start on solids. I hope pepsi is feeling better. She may have less milk and not be so attentive if she is feeling a bit under the weather.
If she is still skwity try giving her a couple of scarmbled eggs, it can work wonders sometimes and is a power packed meal. Do give her a very high protein diet if she can take it: Cooked chicken or cooked minced beef, simmered gently for 30 mins at alternate meals :
( 60&meat 40% mixer) or meat+complete ( 30-40% meat and the rest complete food) 

Let her drink the broth the meat was cooked in, she will love it and it will help keep her fluids up. She should be offered a good long drink in her bed before and after every meal ( meat broth or water with a little milk in it - ( 1 teacup of skimmed milk to a pint of water)

Moderate exersise if good for encouraging the milk supply but dont take her out of the garden. She may enjoy a ball game for a few minutes soon? A little running about if she feels up to it will do her good, I find some mums  need a break from the babies after 10 days or so for a few minutes and enjoy a bit of  a groom or some fuss in the sitting room too. It wont be long before she wants to go back to the babies and it help her attitude towards  them - she WANTS to go back to them eventually. Make sure they are cosy  and warm while she is away and that she is clean and dry, especially underneath.
Apologies if I'm telling you stuff you already know.

If she is not having a Vit D (calcium) supplement I would consider giving her some.

Hi Christine, dont worry too much about Pepsi wanting to leave the pups as much now. this is quite normal.  They are now 9 days, and Pepsi seems to know that they are doing quite well, so she is entitled to a little break now and then.  Mums usually stick quite close for the 1st 3/5 days and then just keep there eye on them, and nip back in for feeding times.

If the vet is quite happy with them, I would not worry too much.  Remember Labs birth weights are around 10/16oz so they will be quite large in comparison. My last litter the labs were 20 & 21oz, so were around the size of your 9 day olds at birth. You cannot compare.

22ozs is excellent, compared to what they were when I saw them last, this is a good weight for them now.

I am soo looking forward to seeing them again, especially the white one, she is so cute.  Will pop in on the way down to Tia's PAT Assessment, get the kettle on for around 6.15 :D :D

Kay

Hi Christine,

Only just catching up with things and can't believe the babies are 8 days already - well done, especially after all you've been through.

best wishes to Pepsi, kids and of course all the family ;)
Teri

I have a dog who recently had a litter of 11 pups. The pups began to die one by one, until we had lost four in total. In desperation I found this site and immediately went and bought some beef liver. On Tuesday morning I found one of the pups very weak and lifeless, I started giving the pup 4 drops of the liver juice every 2 hours and also feeding milk via a dropper every 30 minutes. I held the pup on my lap all day and rubbed her very firmly so that she could not got to sleep. I did not put her down all day, she peed on me and pooed on me and was sick on me. I told her all this was fine but I wasn't going to let her die on me. We continued to give all seven surviving pups the liver juice and started feeding them with a bottle to top up their mothers milk. That was two weeks ago and now ALL SEVEN pups are thriving and the little girl who was so ill has become a real spoit little thing who barks everytime I enter the room until I pick her up for a cuddle.

I wanted to thank everybody on this link for taking the time and the trouble to put up advise and help for people like me. I was at my wits end not knowing what to do and blaming myself thinking I was not looking after them properly. I truely thank every one of you for you time and consideration

I have called the little girl Ruby and I am going to keep her along with her mum.

Thank you again.

im sooo happy to read this janmead :) well done for saving the pups lives! how were thay when they started? and how old are they now :)

Thank you for your kind wishes. The pups were 2 days old when they started to die, they are now 4 weeks and last night had their first taste of solid food. I must admit they got more all over them than they got in their mouths but it is a start.

Thanks again