Thanks Archer,you have made things alot clearer :) Long story short,if a dog doesnt like to go to shows or stresses out,he wont win, therefore the owner wont show the dog? Has anyone seen a stressed/unhappy dog being shown,how do they act in the ring?

Hi Rose

My eldest girl hates the showring, however she loves the day out at at show. I don't show her anymore as she clams up and literally starts shaking as she gets in the ring. The funny thing is as soon as the showbag gets dragged out the cupboard or the bathing starts she goes crazy. If I am bathing the other two who love to show she gets miffed and comes and sits outside the bathroom door waiting her turn. She really enjoys the bathing, grooming and her ring craft class and she loves the atmosphere of a show but she just doesn't like showing. I take her with me to the local open shows and occasionally show her if it's not going to be a busy day but generally she wanders about with my OH meeting and greeting all the other dogs she sees. She really enjoys her days out at open shows, I don't take her to champ shows as she gets herself really upset on the bench even if I sit with her the whole day. The other two look around themselves and get all excited for a while then settle down and go to sleep. Dogs all have different personalities and some thrive on the atmosphere and some don't.

I've seen few dogs that are clearly frightened on the table & they won't stand & back away  when the judge comes towards them. This is different to a puppy not wanting to stay still lol at 4 1/2 my smallest cavalier is not averse to putting his paws round judges necks & kissing them which usually embarrasses me & makes the judges laugh & say they don't mind. There are some of the more serious judges that he just stands & ignores as if he knows they aren't going to like it

Molly Coaker said to him"I'm glad someone is pleased to see me"& placed him second & put in his write up that he was a cheeky boy ;) lol he's that alright

Having been a spectator there yesterday I agree with the notice about telling people not to touch the dogs unless asking permission first.  Maybe a notice could also be put in the extensive program that they sold in very big letters.  I think unfortunately there will always be those few GP who tarr the brush for everyone.  Unless you have a dog I think most people just assume, rightly or wrongly, that any show dog will have a fantastic temperament even after 10 hours of being stuck on the bench.  Its a shame that Crufts cant schedule one set of breed shows in the morning and and then another set in the afternoon that way the dogs would maybe only be there half the time.  Just an idea.

The trouble with notices like that is that there are huge numbers of overseas visitors who might not read English very well.

There could be an earlier removal time, so that dogs who've finished their class at 10am don't have to wait till 4pm to leave. Most other shows I've been to that stipulate a time before which nobody can leave have that time as 12 noon or 1pm.

Now that there is DD there's not the excuse that 'the dogs have to be there for the public to view' any more.

Seems to me Ice Queen that you have a real dislike of GP, but isn't it the GP that buy puppies from Breeders.

Why don't you suggest that the Kennel Club to check us all out first before we are allowed entry - make sure we don't all have criminal records, or the wrong blood type (mines at boiling point at the moment !!)

I'm not against the GP, I'm against the ones with no common sence!

I was more then happy for my dogs to be fussed.  One family came up and asked, they where intrested in the breed and where looking at adding one to thair family.  They asked and we had a good talk, I got 2 of my dogs off the benches for them to see (a dog and a bitch) and one of their girls was sat mext to one I left on the bench.  It was the ones who would fuss dogs without owners their.  It just wound me up that few people had common sense.  If I was on DD and people didn't ask, thats fine, DD is to fuss dogs.  The benches is where the dogs are resting for classes, and sometimes you don't want your dog being touched, some don't like strangers.

I'm more then happy for strangers to ask and I will allow, and anyone intrested in the breed is invited to arrange a time to see our dogs in their home environment.  I just got wound up by the lack of common sense :(

Hi Roxanne
I think you speak some sense here, I think trying to have a dog show and a trade fair in shared space is a nightmare.

We were with the labs on Saturday. One owner left her dog on the bench unattended for over 2 hours - during this time a child came over and hit the poor dog over the head with an empty plastic bottle. The dog was seriously wound up after that (not blaming the dog here at all), he got more and more stressed, and at one point my husband and daughter had to take turns to shield him from the public as he was getting very very snappy. I don't blame the dog at all, he was very fed up. Said owner on return refused to believe he was snapping and didn't even say thank you. So I was then wound up!!!!!

Yes this is what happends, before anyone flies, I know not everyone will do this BUT the minority ruin it for the majority.  Why should ANY dog be putting up with being hit over the head by some obnoxiate brat!  Personaly as a human I would fly at this kid if it hit me, or one of my dogs!

I don't want to see the GP banned, but the minority have made me think, I wish I could get rid of the majority, although it would be ashame, I did have some nice people come up intrested in the breed.

unfortantly some show people are ungrateful aswell. :(

Now I'm interested in this post because I love going to Crufts to see the dogs.  I don't watch a huge amount of the judging, I just want to see the dogs.  I don't talk to the dogs alone in cages because I think it might be distressing for them if they're looking for their owners and I'm not them.

However, I did try to talk to some people with Borders and from some I kind of got a "look" and not very much response (I admit I'm a bit enthusiastic on Borders :D).  I honestly only wanted to say what lovely dogs they had!  Some people were really friendly - some were not.

With the bigger dogs, Wolfhounds/Deerhounds (not in cages), a lot of these dogs were on their own and I clapped them all and said hello.  I honestly didn't think that was a problem and the dogs didn't seem to mind.  I would much rather talk to the owner of the dog and ask them about the breed than run up and fuss the dog because the owner was gone. 

I don't think people really are stupid to clap the dog if he's alone, sometimes we just don't think I suppose.  See a dog, think awwwww and there you go.  Next year at Crufts, I will definitely ask ask ask :)

CG

Rose, a stressed, unhappy dog just will not show well!   Last year, one of my girls had an experience the day before a Champ show (which I was completely unaware of at the time).   When she went in the van, she was fine, she was fine going into the show - until I put her on the bench - and she became absolutely frantic!    It was obvious to me, and everyone else, that she wasn't at all happy and so, even before our dogs were called, I pulled her out - she was panting, barking, and absolutely freaking out - she just didn't calm down until I got her outside the showground, into the car park, and back into the van - she then settled down, quite happily.

She certainly was in no mood to go into a show ring, and strut her stuff!   Had I taken her in, she would have carried on in the same manner, she certainly would not have run nicely around the ring and then stood for the judge to go over her.   I would have looked an absolute muppet, and she would have been classed as too highly strung - which, on that particular day, she certainly was!

Margot

I'd agree with you about the Wolfies & deerhounds. They are so laid back that I can't imagine any of them being anything but pleased with a pat and a 'hello', and the temperament is so wall to wall good that there is virtually no risk of finding a snappy one. But I can appreciate that owners would prefer to be asked with more nervous/excitable dogs.

I am a dog lover, who sadly no longer has a dog.  I go to Crufts every year as I like to have the chance to see and (where possible) stroke the dogs.  I always ask before I approach a dog.

I tried to read the comments in this posting, but lost interest in the petty comments.  As I am one of the dreaded GP -who  you obviously have a very low opinion of and reading the coments it is definately a case of 'US' and them .....

You have now spoiled Crufts for me and I shall probably never go again.  I will look to get my next dog from an animal rescue as I am obviously not worthy of the lot of you - like you'd care !!

Och Parsley, don't take offence - I'm in the same boat as you!  I go to Crufts to pat (clap) all the dogs, however, now I know that apparantly that isn't such a good thing!

I've a pedigree who would walk away with Crufts given half a chance (IMO :D) but he's no good being around other dogs.  And he came from an animal rescue as well.

I take my hat off to the wolfhound/deerhound owners at Crufts who are just the nicest people and are always extremely friendly and chatty.  (Other owners are nice too but these breeds always stand out to me)

And don't forget - 9 times out of 10, its not us that approach the dogs, its the dogs that approach us!

Don't let Crufts be spoiled, just go next year with a different eye and sniff out the people that are more than happy to have you fuss their dogs.  There's plenty of them.

CG

Hi Parsley! Don't be put off! This thread is about people who don't ask before they stroke - as you say you always ask, then it doesn't apply to you!

Remember that it's always drummed into parents not to allow children to stroke any dog without asking the owner (dogs outside shops etc), and the same rule holds true at shows as well. Discover Dogs is there for the stroking and questions, and the showring is for watching the dogs and the judging. The benching is their own personal space, where dogs have been injured or poisoned by strangers in the past, so it's no wonder owners are wary.

I thought this thread was about banning the GP from Crufts and just letting us walk around the trade stands! Regardles of whether we ask or not?! :)

From the first post ...

>Why can't people be more considerate and have more sense.  Don't go up to a dog unles a) the owner is their and b) the owner gives permission.

I think it would be a good idea to ban the GP from the benching areas, but allow them at the ringside and of course the trade stands.
:)

ice_queen 13.03.05 20:37 BST  [Misc] [Reply]  

Jo, yes some people have sense, but not everyone.  On thursday Clare Balding descriped crufts very well "trade show"  Now why cant the dog show be in Halls 1, 2, 3 and 3a and the trade show in halls 5,6, DD in hall 9? (is that the one opposite hall 5?) also trade stands.  Surely then public can be kept away from the dog show, but exhibitors can go round the stalls.

Alot of you might disagree.  It might not work but it's just an idea I had!
--
Rox 

Jeangenie 13.03.05 22:00 BST  [Misc] [Reply]  

Sounds like a good plan to me, Ice Queen.

But that's not what the thread was originally about, Chloe, at least not according to the original post. It got sidetracked, as they do!

After all, the GP aren't allowed down the horselines at racecourses, or the Horse of the Year Show, or behind the scenes at the Royal Tournament. They're only allowed 'front of stage'. Why not do the same at Crufts, now that DD is there for chatting and stroking, and leave the benching areas to the exhibitors? As a non-shower now I don't really like disturbing people or dogs who're eating their lunch, or getting a bit of a sleep after getting up at no doubt an ungodly hour and travelling hundreds of miles. Leave them somewhere quiet!
:)

But thats not what you are saying in your post above. You are saying you think it "sounds like a plan" to ban the GP from the showing areas? Which is it? :)

I should have made myself clearer - I think it's a good plan to have the trade stands well away from the dog-show area, rather than intermingled as they are now, hindering exhibitors (who are the important ones - remember it's supposed to be a dog show!), and allow the public access to watch the judging, but not the benching areas.

Hi Parsley and Rose - do you realise that if the exhibitors decided NOT to show their dogs that there wouldn't be Crufts?    All exhibitors have to pay to enter each class that their dog/s is/are shown in(and that's not cheap, I can assure you) as well as everything else.

I'm still fuming that yesterday, despite having paid for Crufts Drop Off parking tickets, etc, which state clearly EXHIBTORS MUST NOT PARK IN NORTH CAR PARKS that we were directed up there - unless we had run down a couple of attendants there was no way we could get into the correct car parks :(  We then had the 25 min walk down to the NEC, but then because dogs are not allowed on the Piazza (or was it the Plaza - can't remember) we were directed round to Hall 8, and then had to work our way down to Hall 1, complete with crate/table/chairs/grooming stuff/dog food/our food !   We weren't the only ones either - another car in front, and the van behind all had dogs - and the remarks of some of the people - Excuse me - but weren't they going to a Dog Show???

I have emailed Crufts and the NEC, and unless I'm satisfied with their responses, I'm not sure if I will exhibit at Crufts again - especially not on the last day (even though we have to qualify first :D)

Margot

I would agree with that. I hate the way the trade stands are all over the place and I can't find half the rings - but I suspect its done that way because there are so many stands seliing the same items. Wouldn't take long to get round if they were all in 2 halls!

thats the message I got

Parsley of course we care.  We love meeting the public as do the dogs as it si more fuss for them.

It is just INCONSIDERATE UNTHINKING PEOPLE that don't respect the dogs that get exhibitors backs up.

You can come and sit with and fuss my lot all day next year if you like :D :D

I really should learn not to take things too personally, but a lot of the comments on this poll made me see red - hence my reply.

I have been going to Crufts for the last six years, and I was surprised on my first visit to be allowed  access to the show dogs.  As my love is gun dogs, I like to walk between the stalls just to have a look at the dogs (and a pet if the owner shows willing) , as it is almost impossible to get close to the cockers and spaniels in the breed section.  If I am being honest, I would say that the Breed areas should be made more accessible as it is always too busy -  and the show areas should be cordoned off for the show people only, but obviously allowing  access to the show rings.

It is a shame that a mindless few could potentially ruin things for those of us that adore dogs, but are not in a position to be able to show them ourselves.  I am still grieveing over the lost of my two cockers, so any interaction I can get with dogs is welcomed.

Having been a dog owner - I know how fiercely we wish to protect our own !!

I think that this year (I went on Thursdays) Crufts was just too too busy and I do wonder if the admissions should be more restricted.   I felt sorry for the dogs that were being dragged thru the trade stand area (especially the little ones), although I understand the difficulty if the breeders are on their own - now heres an I idea - I could offer a 'dogsitting' service for those single breeders who need to leave their dog - No Charge - just opportunity to be able to comfort the dog.

Anyone interest - email me !!

Parsley - your idea has lots of merit!   The exihibitors - the Raison d'etre of Crufts - are in a cleft stick here - having paid megabucks for the privilege of entering our dogs, we are stuck unless we can afford to bring lots of people with us in order to "manage/babysit" the dogs whilst we are in the ring/having a pee etc etc.    We are fortunate enough to go "mob-handed" - but others aren't in the same position as ourselves - so it might well be an idea to get names of a "float team", if you like, who could attach themselves to a bench line, to ensure that dogs are not left unattended.

As it was this year, we were all able to watch our boy in the ring - but last year when we had 3 at Crufts, someone couldn't watch, had to stay with the others whilst one "performed" - so we weren't able to enjoy our moment of  triumph!

I would certainly be interested in something along the lines that you suggest.

Margot

Perhaps the mega rich KC could be persuaded to provide Dog Monitors to keep an eye on the areas?

Hi, I've gone to crufts on and off since I was 9 years old (now 23) and even then I wouldn't dream of touching someone elses dog. I dont understand how others cant understand that the dogs are animals and not ornaments for people to touch etc. Plus I always thought the area to touch dogs and talk to owners/breeders was discover dogs? Anyway I just thought I'd say my peace because if I was able to ask when I was 9 then I think other people can do the same :o)

Sarah

I totally agree with you, I believe that my rescue dog was abused before I got him and if someones hands came towards his face he used to try and bite them. I had to have him muzzled for the first 3 years when he was off lead, but it would annoy me if someone used to try and stroke him as I knew the possiblity of what could happen. Once hew knew someone, he would let them stroke him, but I still had to keep an eye on him.
I never stroke a dog unless I know them and the least I do is to let them sniff me (as dogs do), but unless you know them or they know you, its always best to ask the owner first.

Me and my daughter went over to Belgium last year and over there they have large cages for each dog. There can be padlocked but people can still see all the dogs. I was not worried at all about leaving my dog in her cage as i knew know one could stroke her. Although this show is not as large as crufts and there is not as many people, there are still visitors wishing to see dogs.My dogs loves people i still dont like the thought of strange people stroking my dogs. After all if a child (or adult) who you don't know comes up to you and starts stroking you(maybe not stroking you but a dog, or rough handling the dog) then you can't be expected to just sit there and ignore them. We can talk back...what can a dog do apart from growl?

I think we perhaps should look at this from the dogs perspective. They have a job of work to do, and do it well (in the show ring). They say "hello" and give everyone a happy welcome whenever it is requested. Then they get tired and wand 40 winks in their little safe rest area. Is it unreasonable for them to want a break? Most exhibitors are more than happy to show off their dogs if asked, but they are not happy when people come along wanting to stroke or whatever when the dog is dozing, or when it is waiting to go in the next class. If it takes an hour to comb out a dog to look his best before going in the ring, is it fair that someone then comes along and gives the coat a good old tousle on his way in to his class? Not many exhibitors will refuse anyone who asks to stroke their dog, but may prefer for that person to wait a little while until his appearance is not quite as important.
Last year I had an E-mail from a family asking to meet my dogs at Crufts. I was more than happy to oblige, but asked if they would wait until judging was over. They arrived as I was getting my boy ready for his class, expected me stop everything to talk to them, ruffled up the coat I was trying to groom - and this was AFTER I asked them to come back after he came out of the ring.

Ok as the OP (although I think I side-tracked my own first post as i do!) The main point was that people, adult and child went up to a dog who was on its own, she was fine for the 1st many people, but then got fed up, her mum wasn't with her.  I went up to her to try and calm her down, the correct procedure and was fine, but didn't like people going straight in and stroking top of her, there was no "hand sniffing"  Afew paces away I was sitting with my dogs but no-one asked to touch them, I walk afew paces away so I could talk to friends, but still clearly could see my dogs and people where touching them.  Now mine are all fine, the girls love the attention, but one did go though a "freaky" stage and all here are worried one spook might send her back.  Just paranoid.

Ok now back to the main point...It wound me up that people touch dogs without owners presents but wouldn't ask to touch dogs with owner their.

Maybe I wasn't clear, I know its not everyone, I did have some people ask and for them I got the dogs off the benches, I had two dogs off lead just sitting their, one still benched loving all the cuddles a young girl was giving her.

But the dogs benches, we forget, they are the dogs bed for the day.  We put their bedding on for them to sleep on.  They have smells of us in our belongings around them.

At the end of the day it annoyed me, the biggest anoying thing was a dog (not my breed) was asked to leave the premisis after biting a child who was proberly poking it, but I don't know the full story and admit I don't know the full story!

I had a number of the GP mumble under the breath when I had to go from one hall to another that dogs shouldn't be here !!  Umm, right, you're at a dog show not a trade exhibition, or am I wrong??  There are times when you have to walk through the trade areas with your dogs and the shock on some peoples faces when they realised that they were nearly falling over a medium dog.

Oh by the way before anyone calls me my breed aren't allowed to be shown at Crufts so I'm not one of the "show" people, I'm one of those who travels up from Manchester 3 of the 4 days to do Discover Dogs and I try to keep smiling and answer peoples questions :d

I pay to enter Crufts as a DOG SHOW - I am not in the least bit interested in the general public's 'right' to look at or touch my dogs ( and do not consider that they have any such rights ). To be honest I would prefer it if the dog show part was off limits for anyone not actually entered.

Yvonne

Well i must have been in the minority as we were showing on the Friday and found all that wanted to come and say hello to the dogs fabulous .They all asked if it was ok to pet them and also they asked permission to take pics etc.The same again yesterday as we did Discover Dogs. I took my Rescue boy and my youngster who was too young for this years Crufts.God we were so busy as we were there from 7.30 in the morning to around 5 that evening . I would say that 99.9 % asked if it was ok to touch and take pics again.It was actually so refreshing for people to be so nice and so polite.And the dogs as well as us were very tired last night but we all had an absolute ball and that includes the dogs Cos i don't know about others but my lot love all the fuss and attention and will take all they can get LOL

I was at Crufts for the first time on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and had a great time-spent far too much money more than anything else.  :D  I also fell in love with about a dozen different breeds of dogs that I would have loved to take home with me!  For the majority I found spending time at Discover Dogs a good experience-although more so on the Friday than at the weekend as the set-up of the area is very poor-there is far too little space for the numbers that are attracted there and the area quickly becomes very hot which makes it even more uncomfortable.  And while the majority of those who were manning the different sections were forthcoming and enthusiastic about their breed, I was disappointed that quite a few would mutter one word answers to questions or ignore them completely to carry on chatting to their collegues in the pens with them. 

However wandering around the benches I found there were far more people there willing to talk to you about their breed (and I must have collected dozens of website addresses to look at more pictures of their dogs! :D ), let you pet them and take photos if you wanted to.  Yes I always asked permission to pat or take a photo and wouldn't approach a dog that was unattended (although I was nudged by a few walking past that wanted a pat :) ) but I think it would be a real shame and a disappointment to so many to ban the dreaded GP ;) from the benching areas-unless the organisers are to do a better job in the set-up of Discover Dogs.  Even aside from this, there were many of my dog's reatives showing on the Friday so I was wandering around looking for numbers and met a great deal of people that way.  Ofcourse you can always tell from the look on their faces not to approach some people!

I was dismayed by the number of calls going out over the tannoy for "owners to please return to bench number 123 as your dog is in distress".  I also think that they should be allowed to leave earlier than stipulated at present: it's such a long day for all those involved and I think the organisation as a whole could do with being addressed. 

As a final note, I also agree with you ChloeH, there should be far more seating provided: if they are going to encouage the GP in great numbers they will have to expect that more than a small percentage of people will want to sit down at any one time! :)

-Kay

I was also at Crufts for the first time on Sunday and loved it although it was a bit crowded.  We specifically went on Sunday so we could see the working dogs.

Take this as you may from a first time Crufts visitor...I don't feel as though I lack common sense:

I'm going to post about my experience with American dog shows here at home and Crufts.

In Cleveland...
The show dogs were all in their own section and crated.  While you could walk amongst the crates you couldn't touch the dogs.  And that was difficult as it was in the same area that the handlers/owners were grooming their dogs getting them ready for the ring.  There was a section called 'Meet and Greet' (or something similar) where people sat in the open, with their dogs whom you were allowed to pet and cuddle.

At Crufts...
The show dogs were on benches and spaced about.  You could walk among the rows easily and the dogs were accessible.  Discover Dogs had dogs in kennels (not sure what you call them) and was packed.  In several cubicles there were children left alone to sit with the dogs.

Neither is better or worse, just different...but my experience, along with the lack of any other explanation, led me to believe that it was ok to touch the dogs on the benches due to the way the benches were configured and arranged.  However, I did not disturb any dog that was sleeping or backed into a corner looking as though it would rather be anywhere but the bench.  The dogs I did talk to and cuddle were awake and were given my hand to sniff before they were touched.  If a dog didn't seem to want to be bothered, I left it alone and my nephew was instructed to do the same.  The dogs that I did have contact with were alert, wagging their tails and very happy with the attention.

My initial reaction to the OP's post was 'then don't bring your dog to a show'...after reading the rest of the section and thinking a bit, I can understand the reaction of the owners.  However, not all of the GP are inexperienced dog people and not all of the GP are stupid or inconsiderate.   

IMO it would be a shotgun effect to ban the GP from Crufts or any other dog show.  Perhaps both the owners and the GP would benefit from having the dog benches placed in a 'owners/showers' only section and changing the Discover Dogs section a bit, making it more 'touch friendly'.  Part of the enjoyment of Crufts, for me, was being able to touch breeds of dogs that I'd not be able to touch otherwise.  I also enjoyed talking to the owners that were seated with their dogs.  Perhaps that could be accomplished in Discover Dogs instead of the benches if it were set up differently.

Mr spock, Why should I not bring my dogs to a show?  I was with them near enough the whole time except when my brother sat with them while I was in my competition.

My main problem is the people who lack common sense to go up to a dog without their owner present.  It is a recipie for disaster in some cases.  I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE GP TOUCHING MY DOGS WITH PERMISSION!!!!  But thats not my point.  IT WOUND ME UP TO SEE PEOPLE TOUCHING UNATTENDED DOGS when they could have taken afew more steps to ask a owner/person with dogs if they could stroke.  The reason I got thinking of this is because one dog NOT MINE started getting sooo fed up with being touched, she started to snap.  Everyone went up patting her "oh you look so sad" no she wan't sad, she was fed up with being proded and poked when she wanted to rest and her mum wasn't their!

Would you seriously go up to any dog while it is on it's bed?  A bench at a show is the dogs bed.  It has THEIR bedding, and THEIR belongings.  Although a majority of dogs are fine, not all are, I just wish people would not be so stupid and they could ask the person with dogs if they could stroke them.

Like I have stated many times thoughtout the thred, I am more then happy to let people see my dogs, and I had no problem taking the dogs off their bench, letting them have our cards to contact us and veiw our website, as well as giving them the club website or having little children sitting on the bench with the dogs.

All 3 setters I had with my love the fuss and attention and will go with anyone who says "hello" but not all dogs are like that, as I unfortantly got to see :( BUt I also don't want to brush my dogs up and have sticky hads then put all over my dogs I spend a day before hand bathing and trimming (thats how long it takes me to do 4 dogs)  And I'm sure if someone came and touched a poodle after I groomed it I would freak...I know my poodle friends do, not because their nasty bitchy people, but because they spent ages doing something I don't want to redo!

Also note, american shows ARE NOT crufts.  I don't care what happends at american shows, but over all champ shows we see the same practise.

Also how can a dog at the back of a bench want to be anywhere other then the bench.  All my dogs go to the back of the bench to sleep so they don't get poked.

I have also never had a problem with DD where dogs are loose in the pens provided for anyone to come a touch.  The dogs are loose and able to move away if they dont like something, a dog on a bench can't do that.  I only thing DD could do to improve is increase space in each booth so more people can see the dogs.

To be honest, last year was my very first dog show at Crufts and I was shocked that the dogs were within public reach. Of course I was overwhelmed to see so many boxers all in one place.  But I honestly thought they would be seperated. 1) for security (nobody does anything wicked to the dog. 2) Allow the owners to have several dogs for show, knowing whilst they are in the ring the dogs were secure. 3) give the dogs peace and quite.

Im sure most handler/owners wouldnt mind after exiting the ring, people could ask questions and pet the dog with permission.

Just a small view.

I'm sure to that most people would be happy to talk their breed.  those who don't will say so.  Though I have no problem with my dogs being touched on their bench with permission!

Unfortantly, also on the benching their have been cases of poisoning and cutting dogs fur.  but this could be done by other exhibitors who could go down to your benching. 

Ice Queen...chill a bit.

If you'd have read my post correctly I said that my initial reaction was one and after reading the rest of the posts I could UNDERSTAND the position of the owners.

Dog shows in America aren't Crufts?  Thank you for the distinction...I was a bit confused even though everyone around me spoke with a British accent.  Could have sworn I was in America while I was travelling up the highway on the other side of the road.

My point is that there are different ways that dog shows can be done, where the show dogs do not have to be approached, and that banning the general public isn't the answer.  Get a grip.

Why should I have to cage my dog to stop people touching it?  But I don't have a problem with my dogs being touched, I have a problem with people who don't have ANY common sense.  I'm sure you get annoyed at people who don't ahve any common sense, would you not be angery and annoyed if someone had no common sense while driving on the road?

I have always been brought up to ask before I touch dogs.  I don't like the fact that people go up to random dogs, prodding and poking, then moaning when the dog snaps, I know I would snap if I was prodded and poked,  It's people who don't have any common sense that wind me up, and unfortantly it has made me have little respect for the GP at a dog show, I know I shouldn't and its the minority, but its the same as if someoen was bitten by a dog, they are scared of all dogs.

I am chilled, and I have a very firm grip on my life.  I will not let the minority GP who wind me up, stop me from the one hobby that I love, I will not stop working my way to the top, and I will not stop professionaly handling, I just wanted to say on here that it winds me up.  Not for it to turn into anymore.

Aww and there was I feeling guilty that I had disturbed the show dogs by getting the camera out, at which point several stood up and started posing :D

OH we have well trained dogs to the camera!!!  Moya was funny this year, someone was taking her picture, she sat up and moved her head and held for afew seconds, just how you see modles poseing!!!!!

I have one that heads towards you evry time he sees a camera.

I think Crufts is a nightmare. You couldn't get access to the ring for the crowds. You had to walk with the hoard/dodge the crowd to get back to the bench.

Is it so unthinkable to spread the whole event out more, perhaps over a week. Have larger rings (18 large breed dogs in a tiny ring was a joke). Adequate seating. Secure,larger benching areas away from the public. Nothing against the public but far more secure and less stressful. Volunteers from various breeds having organised meet & greets with the public. There is nothing to stop the GP from buying a catalogue and contacting breeders after the event when they've seen something thats caught their eye.
Crufts needs to get with the times, put the dogs before the purse. Compared to large international shows it leaves alot to be desired.

ps

My party all came back with flea bites on our ankles...thankyou very much whoever doesn't treat their pooches :D

I am suprised you think some of the international shows are better organised than Crufts, as this wasn't my expereince when I went to the World show.  Also none of the International shows have anywhere like our entry, not even the entries we get at most of the General Championship shows (around Ten thousand dogs) are twice as large.

I do like the cages they have at the Bellgian and Dutch shows, but even there they are not provided for every dog entered, and it is a case of grab a feee one, so finding your breed and seeing dogs altogether is impossible much more like our Open shows.

I personally like benching as I am a lone exhibitor.  I would prefer enclosed bencing, but still numbered so that you can find a specific dog or owner.  I also love meeting the general public (which is why I have done Discover Dogs every year except this, since it started (as a non driver couldn't find anyone to go with this year). 

My dogs also love the attention, but I don't want people touching my dogs when I am not there, but am aware they do, and this really is unfair as they cannot get away from it if they have had enough.  I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of official looking presence at the ednof each row of benches to back up the don't touch signs.  Though I think better benches would be cheaper in the long run, even though you wouldn't ahve anywhere to park your bum, and would have to not forget the folding chairs.

In the Dicover dogs area I always took at lest 3 dogs (even though they recomend only two) as when they get too tired they an hop into the bench in the booth, and with three I have found there were enough dogs for fussign and soemone getting a rest.

Spook, meet and greet is AKA Discover dogs!!!!!  Like brainless we do it with 3, sometimes 4 dogs!  OUr organiser for IRWS is also very good, hands up for him, he gives each person a maximum of 4 hours, most only 2-3 hours and still gets people helping the whole day, weather with 1 dogs or 4 dogs.  Hands up to him, he always organisies it really well, no dog is there for the whole day and the people who offer normally get to choose the time they want to do it, ok sometimes 2 people want the same slot.

Yes sometimes I also find rings are too small.  I'm sure aussies got a smaller ring this year (we moved from our norm for some reason into hall 1 from hall4) and still had same entries if not bigger! However I could see more days = higer entries :(

I found the best way to enter the ring was via the table and results board, as little people stood behind there!  Also made big deal...."oi I'm in this class!"  BIgest problem was past special events benching, from their to YKC ring was a nightmare!

Unfortunately the majority of the GP do not know the difference between approching and stroking a dog while you are outside the ring waiting to go in, or relaxing around the benching area.

I have no problem with the public in the benching areas asking questions and stroking my dog, as long as they ask and I found the majority did.  My problem comes when I am trying to calm her and me down before going into the ring.

If you ban the GP from the benching area, I feel you will have more of a problem around the rings.

I really do think the exhibitors are treated very badly considering the entry fee and car parking we have to pay.  I think one set of toilets per hall should be set aside for exhibitors, judges and stewards, enter wearing ring numbers.  It was really annoying on Sunday trying to time getting your dog ready for the ring and allowing enough time (25 minutes I queued at one stage) to go to the loo.

The nearest car parks should be for exhibitors only too.

I am not against the GP coming in, that is what makes Crufts so different together with the trade stands.  On my shopping day I would not mind having to park that bit further or queue that bit longer.

BTW I love the atmosphere Crufts creates and my dog seemed to rise to the occassion too.

Sandra