Today I was the one fo the family who sat with the dogs on the benches.  Now we had 3 benches and 3 red and whites (+ 1 aussie shepherd) I sat on the middle bench so can easily acess all dogs and reasure if something happends.  People next to us and afew benches down had left their dog/s as they are on their own (we in family of 4) anyway, many people would go up and fuss the dogs without their owners, but knowone asked me to stroke mine (I'm not saying mine should be fussed) When I walked away afew paces to talk to friends a couple of benches up, people started fussing our dogs (I wasn't with them!)

There was one bitch who was left, who was fine with people to begin with, but soon got fed up of children poking her and snaped (never got them luckily) but children (and adults) where just fussing, not thinking about asking owner (who wasn't their!)  I was sitting their with my dogs, no "can I please stroke you dog" or anything.  thought this was rather sad and annoying.

I did hear a dog got asked to leave because it bit a child, now I don't know the reason behind, but with the people I saw I would be surprised if the child just went up to the dog who was on his bench (also the dogs bed for the day where THE DOGS bags will be!)  OK I admit that might not have been the case, but I nearly saw that happen with my breed a couple of benches away from me :(

Why can't people be more considerate and have more sense.  Don't go up to a dog unles a) the owner is their and b) the owner gives permission.  Why are people sooooo stupid???? :(

Playing devils advocate - I wouldn't leave my dog on a bench unattended at all... and if I had an untrustworthy dog I would use a crate or not take it at all. Those benches are asking for trouble. The public go to crufts to see the dogs, and you can't blame them for walking round the benches. I agree they shouldn't touch without asking (I certainly wouldn't!) but you have to assume they will all do as they please :)

Thats why I spent half the day on our benches, and my brother the other half.  I just really wound me up that people came to a dog show and just assumed everydog is friendly :( all my dogs are well temperd around people, and only 1 has a problem with other male dogs and he doesn't ever get left on benches.  I've already decided we should bann the GP from crufts and keep it to just dog activities, the trade show can go on in other halls!!!!!!! (thats was after going though 3 halls in just minuets because I was rushing!

Without the GP paying entrance fees Crufts wouldn't exist!

I've been reading some serious slating of Crufts participants on another board I go to - from horse folk - saying that all exhibitors are snooty and unapproachable and only interested in mating this to that and referring to their dogs as "stock" and standing clipping and trimming and faffing about with their dogs all day! :D :D

I empathise with both views - yes, *some* people think it's OK to bear down on an unattended dog, chained on a bench, possibly exhausted / bored for more hours than is reasonable (KC rules :( ) and maybe guarding owners' belongings too and yet the paying public do this at Crufts because they *know these are show dogs* - they wouldn't necessarily attempt to stroke / cuddle a dog say tied up outside a shop without an owner/handler present!  But "show dogs" should of course have exemplary temperaments, certainly with people and ALL exhibitors know the drill at Crufts re dogs being available on benches :rolleyes:
I take crates for mine - one crate remains "dogless" with our belongings padlocked inside :P and one dog is allowed to rest, in a covered cage if necessary while the dog that is out of the crate is petted, cuddled etc - unless being groomed in which case the proffered palms can back off or I might bite :D  Then the one who has done it's stint both in the ring and meeting the public gets to swap with his counterpart and rest in the crate while the rested dog is *released* to be exercised, groomed, shown and then pampered by any visitors for a while.  IME it works for me and mine, Teri :)

But Teri, I heard there is also a rule that all dogs should be able to be seen by the public and not coverd over. 

My main point is though that I was sitting with my dogs, and they insisted on touching the dog without owner present.  Unless I'm THAT scary.... :D But people call me stunning....oh no wait they where talking about the dog!!!!!!! ;)

its just coman courtacy,something some people lack! if it was me i would always ask befor approching a dog.be it show or not,they can still bite. and i would never ever let my child approch a unatended dog! its just comonsence! x

Hi Rox,

>I heard there is also a rule that all dogs should be able to be seen by the public and not coverd over<

Yes, you're right - the dogs are supposed to be visible but personally I don't care ;)  If whichever of my dogs is in his/her cage and doesn't need to rest then fine, the cage isn't covered - but if the dog has already had enough attention and just needs some quiet time (in Crufts :rolleyes: ) then I'll put a loose cover over the front of the cage.  I'm pretty much OK with most rules and regs but if a particular one is not in my dogs' best interests then I'll "shape it" to suit - and the whole benching issue at ANY champ show is one which I personally find doesn't suit me or my dogs.
Re the public only approaching unattended dogs (I'm sure it wasn't you personally they were avoiding :D) )  I've noticed that happen year in, year out  - I've offered to bring my dog(s)s out for a cuddle when I've heard neighbouring unattended ones being harassed and asked folk why they do it and been told "it looked lonely" :rolleyes:
regards, Teri

That's fine if you're there with a partner/helper/whatever, but if you're on your own with a dog, and you need the loo, you simply have to leave it. I wish the public could be banned from the benching areas - they could be at the ringside and still visit the trade stands freely.
:)

I was in the same position ...we had someone permanetly sat with the dogs but both lots on either saide were at some time left on their own....lets face it we all have to eat or use the loo or even show one of our other dogs.
As said as soon as the dog is unattended people seem to hone in on them and want to pet them.One of them growled a couple of times.Its a long day for the dogs with some being on those benches for 10 hours!!What do people expect?Its very stressful for them also.
They put rules in the catalgue that all dogs must be on all benches at all times except for exercise....why can't they put a note in demanding that spectators ask permission before touching the dogs.I know people pay to come in but my dogs are MY POSSESSIONS ...it does not give someone the right to handle my dogs!!!!Do people get into cars uninvited at car exhibitions...NO!!
Archer

To my mind the place for the general public to see the dogs is in the ring or on Discover Dogs. benches should be for exhibitors and helpers only.
With all the money made at Crufts by the kennels club, why on earth don't they spend some of it on having stewards at each end of the benching areas PREVENTING the general pubic from that area, with special passes for those connected with exhibitors to have access to the benching area.
Over the years we hear of dogs being poisoned -hair cut- people getting bitten- even theft, etc, not that preventing the general public would completely stop it, but would go a long way to help. After all without dog owners-exhibitors-breeders trade stands, etc, etc, the Kennel club would go out of existance.
Its about time the Kennel club woke up and looked after those that pay their wages, and it needs a concerted effort by all, especially breed clubs to bring about better security at major championship shows such as Crufts.

Bazza

Fine, but in that case they should extend Discover Dogs so folk can actually get to some of the stands! Its no wonder people walk round the benches!

I had to have a seat on one of the benches this year - in an empty row - because there was no seating anywhere else and I wasn't sitting on the floor in my condition.

I think the benches should be accessible to ALL!  However maybe notices should be put above the benches asking spectators to refrain from touching the dogs unless they ask first.
Do you show Chloe? I'm sure your dogs are you 'prized' possessions and adored pets the same as us who show.We do not show to put on an exhibition for the public.We love the public to get involved BUT we also expect the general public to respect our animals.
As for Crufts not existing without the public? Maybe it wouldn't be the same but it would exist the same as every other champ show .However I do know of exhibitors who refuse to attend Crufts since it has now become more of a public exhibition first and dog show second....without exhibitors it definatley wouldn't exist.
Archer

No, I don't show - but I have been to Crufts in that capacity with my friend and her 3 dalmatians. We had no problems at all with folk wanting to touch the dogs. My stance is simple: if I had a dog that didn't like to be approached by the public I wouldn't go to the show alone.

Yes, Crufts might exist without the GP. But it woudn't be in the NEC, wouldn't be on the tv, wouldn't be such a high profile event - it would just be another Champ show - would as many exhibitors turn up then? I doubt it. Its all about choices. Why not just take a chain and a sign on that chain asking folk not to touch your dogs and put it across the bench?

Its just ONE show a year to put up with a few folk wandering round. Surely its up to the KC/Crufts organisers to educate the public into not approaching dogs?

Why would it not be in the NEC?? LKA is and thats just a 'normal' champ show!
Why should we avoid going to Crufts because people can't be respectful of our animals.Its not our fault...these people need to think and ask before touching.
Archer

Well, I had no idea it was there - does suprise me - which rather substantiates my other points about it being less high profile with no TV coverage.

You haven't answered my point about putting a chain across asking people not to touch?

I don't have to as my benches are permanently manned.I think ,as I've said before' there should be notices put on the ends of all the benches telling the public to ask first.
Do you think it makes any diffeence to exhibitors if the public is there or not?? We do not do it for the pleasure of the public,the TV coverage or anything else similar.We do it because its a dog show...same as we do all the other ones.
Archer

Well, I don't go to see your dogs, I have no interest in seeing them or touching them so lets not tar everyone with the same brush. However, if I were looking for a new breed and a reputable breeder, I would be going to a dog show to meet folk - is that not what we recommend on here?

Well said Archer - I know that Crufts has the highest profile of all the champ shows but it has turned into a real ordeal for exhibitors - we are too often cramed into the corners of the halls whilst huge rings are given over to one or two dogs 'entertaining the crowds with 'dancing' etc. We have to queue for ages for the loo/food etc ( no separate facilities for exhibitors who may be in a hurry not to miss their classes) we are told that we cannot leave because it would spoil the public's day out and our poor dogs are expected to have total strangers groping them when they are trying to relax on the benches - each year I say "never again". I much prefer some of the other Champ shows .

Yvonne

Cannot think for the life of me why you still go then? Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Because its got a good atmosphere among exhibitors and everyone goes so its a good place to see freinds.We go because ITS A DOG SHOW ....and we want to show our dogs there.
Archer

And we, the GP go for the similar reasons. So its just a shame you are going to have to put up with us and if you don't like it - don't go :)

Like I said ...I don't have to worry...I just leave my hairy tatooed biker hubby to 'guard' my boys!I just feel sorry for people who don't have the same support as I do
Archer

I went to the loo on the way in from Car park and then didn't leave the benching and ring area until 4.10pm.  I was showing my 3 dogs and one other in 7 classes, and couldn't afford to try for the loo.

Hi Chloe,

LKA does not get terestrial tv coverage (although sometimes cable)but it is nevertheless well publicised locally and is always *extremely* busy with visitors not just from the UK either, but literally world wide and in general draws a huge entry across the breeds.  Because it isn't a" trade fair with dogs" but a dog show with a generous display of trade stands it is a far friendlier and more comfortable environment for dogs, exhibitors and visitors alike.

regards, Teri :) 

Thanks for the info Teri :)

Many people think Crufts is the only dog show there is!

And let's just hope it stays that way!

Teri :)

Ny freind who won BOB was on her own with two dogs.  Now she was left with a quandary, as to what to do with ehr male while she went into the Group.

She grabbed the chief steward who luckily she had met before and quizzed him with her problem.  In the end she took him into the collevting ring much to the disaproval of the other stewards who tried to stop ehr and the chief stewards wife looked after him while his Mums (canine and human( did their stuff).

It really isn't on after the cost of getting htere that there isn't somewhere safe to put ones other dogs and belongings while in group ring.

Also I was on my own showing 3 dogs plus another for a freind, that meant I was absent from the others for the durations of 7 classes.  Thankfully mine love nothing more than a fuss, and do not guard their beds or belongings.

It isn't good enough to say the dogs should be on show, they are while in the ring, their benches are for them to rest on.

There should be very large notices saying DO NOT TOUCH UNATTENDED DOGS OR ANY DOG WITHOUT OWNERS EXPRESS PERMISSION!!!!

Exactly Barbara...its a dog SHOW not a dog TOUCH! LOL.
Archer

Regarding putting up notices this just doesn't work no matter how big they are. You can post notices all day long but unless there are officials below them to inforce then is just a waste of time. The only other alternative is to have the benches in a gated area with security at the gate letting exhibiters/helpers in and out. Benches are for dogs to rest on not be poked and prodded by all and sundry.

As for Discover Dogs it is an excellent way of promoting breeds and welfare of dogs, and if the allocated area is not big enough for people to get to to be able to ask the people on the stands questions, then yet again the organisers are out of touch with want is required and need to address this issue also.

As I say there is so much the Kennel club could do to help at shows  but I suspect like most large organisations, those at the top are far removed from the people that show.
To prove my point how many times do you see or speak to anyone from the kennel club head office, see them chatting to exhibitors, apart from those they know. How many times have you filled in a questionare placed on your benches asking for ideas on how to improve the show. My betting is never. Yes they pay lip service and like politicians come out with all the right words but that is just about as far as it gets.

Bazza

I agree that I felt very sorry for the dogs yesterday and there must be a way of making their day less of an endurance test. I also believe that they should limit the number of people allowed in to the exhibition itself, yesterday was almost unbearable for humans there seemed to be less space to sit, even on the floor. Huge crowds to try to get in to an arena, massive queues for all toilets and food and after about 11 am almost impossible to shop. IMHO it really is getting out of hand in its current form.

well i am the general public and i went to crufts today and walked round most of the benches but then I didnt touch any of the dogs, some of the breeders seemed nice, others seemed to scowl at you for daring to walk anywhere near them and lots of dogs seemed to be having their photographs taken.
I was mainly walking around the benches looking for any dogs that looked particularily like ours or for any that had an indication of their name / kennelz - the reason being that our dogs breeder had told us that there would be 4 Glensanda dogs there.
I did watch quite a bit of the showing but when you are only there for the day and you have to take in everything its hard to only see the dogs in the show ring

I would never approach someones unattended dog and start poking at it thought and some people really should have more common sense

Jo, yes some people have sense, but not everyone.  On thursday Clare Balding descriped crufts very well "trade show"  Now why cant the dog show be in Halls 1, 2, 3 and 3a and the trade show in halls 5,6, DD in hall 9? (is that the one opposite hall 5?) also trade stands.  Surely then public can be kept away from the dog show, but exhibitors can go round the stalls.

Alot of you might disagree.  It might not work but it's just an idea I had!

Sounds like a good plan to me, Ice Queen.
:)

well if you couldnt go near the dogs and only go to the stalls, i for one would never go to crufts again - the shopping is a bonus its not what i go for

I was brought up with the old adage of 'Let sleeping dogs lie' . If the GP would remember that it would help a bit. I agree that a sign, or something, asking them not to touch a dog without permission should be placed somewhere, but who would read it? Everyone goes to see the dogs, and you will see more at the benches than at the DD stands. I spent 2 hours doing a stint yesterday and you could only get half a dozen or so people round at once. A lot of people peeked into the run and then walked away. I couldn't blame them. It was like being a sardine I spoke to more people at the benches than I did at the DD stand ;) Mind you, I was benched on the end, next to the Chessies :D

I wouldn't leave my dogs unattended at any show. But I tend to go with a friend or 2 (or 3 :D ) and we take turns keeping an eye on one anothers dogs so that we can go for a pee, or show our dogs :)

I have been to Crufts three times and never seen any of the stalls.
We stayed with our dogs all the time.
We met some very nice people who came looking at our two and still keep intouch.
I must admit my partner was getting a bit annoyed when he was grooming one of my dogs.People where asking him to move while they took pictures of him.They where stroking him and he had to keep grooming him.
My dogs loved all the attention and still do.
I don't show anymore.I enjoyed going to Crufts but I don't think its worth all the hastle anymore.
I have to say Sometimes I think shall I go. Then I go off the Idea.

Dog

One thing I forgot to say in my last post.
I was told.
In the past dogs have been poisoned at shows.
This I find very very sad that some people are capable of doing such things.
Also not all dog owners are dog lovers.
Dog

Well my dog for one was thrilled with all the attention he got from the general public! He got his photo taken hundreds of times, and got lots of cuddles.....all of which were asked for in advance. I stayed with him at all times. When he got tired I put him in his crate for a break.

The very reason Crufts is Crufts is because of its popularity with the public...why else is it the only televised show? I EXPECT the public to be there, and plan my day accordingly... I would not leave my dog unattended unless asleep in his crate. As a dog owner I consider it my own responsibility to ensure that my dog is safe, and that he is not put in a position to snap at anyone, I do not rely on the general public to show any commonsense whatsoever, even if I think they should have it! If I didnt want to expose my dog to the public, I wouldnt take it to Crufts :D  Dog shows are public, as specified by the Kennel Club, and we have to accept what the KC dictate if we wish to show our dogs.

Why take your dogs there when it just stresses them out? Arent the dogs supposed to be the first prority,not ribbons and trophy's? Someone said their dog was caged for 10 hours,is this normal practice?If so it cant be good for the dogs :(

I have to agree that the public shouldnt be allowed to mix with the exhibitors dogs,i'de say it is stressfull enough for the dogs just being there,without being poked and prodded and stared down while they are in a cage and cant escape any of it :(

Bear in mind i have NEVER been to crufts,but from what i've gathered from all of your posts it doesnt seem like a happy place for the owners and especially not the dogs. I know some dogs and owners would love the attention and the hub bub,but surely they would have to be in the minority??

For ME showing falls under the same heading as breeding,i couldnt make my girls go through having a litter,nor could i go through it,nor could i make my dogs  sit in cages for hours(showing),making them sit on a table while they are primped and preened and then paraded around a ring to be judged. I dont know,i just feel sorry for them.

I dont want to start a debate,i'm just such a soft touch when it comes to my/all dogs,i just want to let them BE dogs :)

I vowed many years ago never to enter a dog again in breed at Crufts when a member of the public who was blocking the entry to the ring sneered at my request to let me get my bitch into the ring "God you would think this is a dog show! why don't you *!*! off !"

My dogs never get stressed at shows & I would not show a dog that did. One of our cavaliers has a bad heart & so is left being dog sat at home to prevent problems. I have two showing "fools"who love all the attention & their expressions show it

I got quite cross with a woman who instead of watching the Obedience World Cup from the stands(there was loads of room so no excuse) was leaning over the barrier of the warm up area where the competitors were warming up their dogs & doing a little bit of practice right were a sendaway area was. She was clearly upsetting the dog & so I politely asked her to step back, I was told " must be your dog you c*w I will stand anywhere I !**!ing want you bitch One of the other members of the team came to the woman & again she was politely asked to move only to be told "that nastie !**!ing Alsatian should be put down"  Then you wonder why people get p**d off with Joe Public, who are 90% nice & respect the dogs. The dog was a lovely long coated gentle dog who was as gentle as a lamb & who outside away from the crowds was relaxed & happy

Oh my gosh what a horrible experience :( It only takes one bad person to tar the rest of the spectators and put someone off for life,they dont sound like  doglovers at all!! Just curious, did you stick to your vow and never showed at crufts again? :)

Its nice to hear some dogs enjoy being showed :) But what about the rest of the day when their locked in their cage and being poked and prodded by the public,doesnt this stress them out ?

Hi Rose,
New pup aside, all my dogs have their Stud Book number - so are qualified for life to attend Crufts instead of having to qualify every individual year.  (I'm not alone on this BTW - plenty of the CD members are in the same position :P ) - the point is that I COULD take ALL my dogs EVERY year but because * I * don't particularly enjoy the over crowding, lousy food, lack of decent/basic facilities (toilets being a major one ) and I don't think it's an ideal environment for MOST dogs then I tend to only take them every say two or three years.  Usually by that lapse in time I've started to forget just how non-dog friendly the show is and so go back - only to swear later I won't be doing it again :D 
My bitches tolerate the environment alright but they get less *enjoyment* out of it than my males.  The boys I've owned ADORE the atmosphere - really soak up all the fuss and attention and are nosey and excited by the ridiculous level of noise coming from things like the special events ring - so yes, some dogs will thrive on it, some will be perfectly content at it but sadly some will be downright miserable and those ones IMHO should definitely be left at home.  Teri ;)

Yep I no longer show my dogs in qualifying classes at Champ shows(if there are any of course)because if my dogs qualified they would be stopping someone else who wanted to take their dogs to Crufts.if they were going to win the CC etc they would do it from any class they are in & I do like going to Champ shows more now I feel no pressure to have to get the dogs qualified. oddly enough one of my boys would probably have been placed at Crufts this year as he is the type of Cavalier the Ricksbury boys have(he has one of their dogs as his Grandfather)

I've done DD & had my dogs there doing none competitive things so that I & they didn't have the hassle of trying to get ready to show, struggling getting the dogs to the rings etc

My dogs are very much people dogs & especially my BC Brett who adored children & who they could have a go at handling in obedience with as he would work for anyone & my special little cavalier boy is definitely a people dog, but they all simply chill out & sit when not meeting & greeting

My Brett used to demonstrate the new dog toys Roger Mugford had each year & being working bred he would play all day without a rest IF I let him(which obviously I didn't)

I might even have one there next year showing of natural grooming products for the stall holder(especially a new remedy she has just brought out)He will be on her stand at UK Toy dogs at her request to show the results of using her grooming & homoeopathic remedies. 

By and large most show dogs love being shown and any attention they can get is a bonus.  All that is being said is that people should treat the dogs with respect and not interfere with them when the owner is not present.

I am a lone exhibitor, only being lucky enough to attend in the first palce if another exhibitor takes me.  those that normally take me have a surname far from mine so even getting them to keep an eye on th dogs is impossible (after all they have their own to watch).

Far from needing to feel sorry for them think of it this way.  going to a show is like the day I was treated by my daughter last year for a makeover and photo dhot.  Now I never wear makeup, and am not into fashion or anything, but it was lovely to be pampered, have my haior and make up done, then dress up and hae pictures talken.

As you could probably see from that little Norfolks face they just love the attention.  A dog at a show has it's owners attention for most of the day, which with the best will in the world it doesn't when it is at hoem when you are busy with the rest of lifes chores.

All my dogs go absolutely stupid when they no it is a show day, and literally drag me out of the door screaming, which is not the way they bechave when just going for a walk :D

Thankfully I have a breed that is very sociable and not particularly sensitive.  But by 2 'o' clock they were stretched out on their benches absolutely shattered, and when people did come and pet them hardly raised their heads.  for breeds that are designed to ahve a very high level of alertness this must make it hard for them to get any rest in such an atmosphere.

I agree with both points here - yes the dogs should be on view, but people should not approach them without asking permission. I ALWAYS use crates, but that does not stop people (especially children) poking their fingers in. As a result I cover my crates - although I have had someone come along and lift the cover to peer inside. My dogs are protective of their "space" )and who can blame them on a day like they have at Crufts). They need a rest and time out. Out of the crate they are happy to meet anyone and will greet them with enthusiasm - but why should they be expected to put up with being poked and prodded when in what is their rest area - would we like it?

I heard of two dogs being poisond this year on gundog day :( My dad saw one being carried out on a stecher :( A dobe was poisoned last year.  Another reason why someone is with our dogs all day.  One dog in our breed was also nicly given a cooked chicken bone afew years back at a general champ show!

<<<<Why take your dogs there when it just stresses them out? Arent the dogs supposed to be the first prority,not ribbons and trophy's? Someone said their dog was caged for 10 hours,is this normal practice?If so it cant be good for the dogs >>>>

Rose
maybe 'stressed' is the wrong word.These dogs thrive on the excitement.They love getting to shows and often get hyped and wound up.My oldest lad is like a thoroughbred race horse at Crufts LOL.He soooo loves it he is constantly jigging around and in the 10 hours we were there he never sat down once.We actually had a joke saying he was 'on 'something.He spent his time on the benches stood right on the edge watching everything that was happening and loved every minute.
The other 2 'did their bit' then decided to sleep...and just wanted to curl up in the back of their benches and be left alone.My dogs are not caged...we don't like it in our breed.During the time on benches they are intermittently removed from the bench and taken for a walk in order to stretch their legs and relieve themselves.
Dogs who don't like to show don't win! Fact.Dogs that don't at least do reasonably well in the ring don't go to Crufts.
Every person I know who shows would NEVER show a dog that didn't enjoy it.....theres no point.
It is however a long day....but would you expect a dog who did ANY kind of work to appreciate being prodded and poked after or during a days work??This is their 'work'.They are trained for it.
I hope this makes things a bit clearer
Archer

My 3 dogs that have been to Crufts (all have stud bok nos) show better there then any other show - presumably they enjoy the fact that they have a large audience. However I firmly believe that it is far more stressfull for them than any other show, and the KC should acknowledge that and try to keep rings and benching away from the stands. Discover Dogs area should be MUCH bigger (but of course there isnt the thousands of pounds being paid, so the traders get first priority). I am sure if the showing and benching of dogs were in different halls away from the stands, there would be no need to ask the public to keep away as most of them wouldnt bother coming round the benches anyway as they are not really wanting to see show dogs apart from a little look at the ring to see "what goes on".