I don't think there is a problem with people having differing opinions Isobel...it would be a bland old place if we all agreed :D It is the WAY in which people express those opinions don't you think? Making someone feel small or stupid isn't helpful whereas offering your opinion and then explaining why you have those opinions is helpful

Big difference I think.

(not implying that you or anyone else on this thread does that - just to cover my behind :D )

I agree Melodysk, giving a rationale is always helpful which is why I think people should not get defensive and see it as a personal affront when they are encouraged to clarify :)

I have no problem with people being asked to clarify either Isobel. Here is an example of what I mean : CD Thread This thread has had 9 replies ..out of those 9, there is 1 , maybe 2 of the replies that are constructive :( (hopefully that explains what I mean a bit better?) :)

A good example, Melodysk, I agree it is always best to not comment if you think it is a troll, not least because that will be giving them some satisfaction :) But I think you will have to agree it is very hard to find the construction comment that one could possibly make on a post such as this one :)

I agree....so then the best thing to do, surely, is ....nothing? ;)

:) yes, but those that show a little human frailty and cannot resist could perhaps be forgiven :)

Surely we can all see even with the most innocent of eyes that post was a troll/wum. I would have thought that taking the post seriously is just what these people want?

Exactly. But the thing is, even if *we* think that the question is stupid or troll-like, it doesn't mean that it actually is. This is why i think we should ALWAYS reply as though it is a serious question ...or don't reply at all.

:)

now if this guest is a troll you are all giving it what it wants?

Yup ;)

can only be good to discuss it,troll or not

I was trying to explain to Guest that its just not ethical without being patronising. Wasi patronising?????? I didnt mean to be????

Oh dear I replied to that one, with the usual typos (that I never seem to have enough time to correct), so now am paranoid as to which category I am in :D :D :D  Only joking.

But Brainless - we know that you CAN spell - AND understand big words :D :D :D

It's just that sometimes, like us all, your fingers get tied up :D :D:D

(When I was learning to type, way, way back in the olden days, one of my fellow students used to complain that she couldn't type because "she'd just washed her hands & couldn't do a thing with them :D"

Margot

I for one am "afraid" to ask questions, not because I am inadequate or stupid or lack confidence, but because I admit I am sensitive and don't like to be humiliated and made to feel stupid.  I come on here mainly to read what other people have written and hope to learn from the experienced dog lovers here that way, but wish I could ask questions without fear.  I too have felt the vibes of the "clique", but this forum is also helpful and interesting if you can get past the sarcasm and impatience.

Dont be afraid to ask anything
there is no such thing as a daft question if you dont know the answer.

John,posting the above pm was not meant to upset you,gee i thought you were tougher than that ;)

But why can you so easily give it out,but when someone dares pull you up about it you threaten to leave?

I'm sure you have contributed greatly to alot of threads here and probaly have helped alot of people.
Not everyone has to like you tho ;) I'm sure there are alot of folk here who dislike me or think some of my posts are too curt,but i do appreciate it when someone pulls me up about it(and it has happened alot :D ),so next time i can take a little time before i hit post.

Like a few people have said,this is a message board,only words on a screen,you cant please everyone,all of the time!

John if you are going to leave because of someone's comment,well i dont know what to say :(

Rose Likeing disliking???  I think I have totally missed the point of this board????  I never thought it had anything to do with feelings.  Perhaps in Idle chat there is room for the making of freinds, but I thought the Forum was all about the exchange of information???  It is in the title.

That does seem to be the problem people are taking posts personally, (not aiming at you at all it just caught my eye), maybe that is why people are getting upset).

Well I hope you are all very pleased with yourselves!!!!!

You have now lost yet another long standing member, who has freely given his very valuable advice, gained over years of experience to the posters on this board. 

I very rarely post on here now for the very same reasons as John has stated.

I think I said previously in another thread that I would rather save my knowledge and give it where it is appreciated.

If we are having a slanging match and naming names, then Rose I think you by far have one of the most sarcastic ways of getting your point across that I have ever seen before on this board, and unfortunately although some of your points are very valid I can't be bothered to find them amongst the nastiness.

What you and the original poster forget is that none of us do this for any reward, other than hopefully helping someone else in their time of need.

You also forget that we are human, and as humans have good days and bad.  On the bad days, to find yet another person posting on here, who quite obviously is either winding us up or is so stupid, that they are putting their dogs and themselves at risk, is more than we can take :-(

JOHN I'm going to say what you said to me a while ago, take a deep breath, brush yourself down and keep on here, for the sake of the real posters who do need our help. You have more knowledge in yiour little finger than the majority of people who profess an opinion on here and the Forum would be a poorer place without you. xxx

Jayne

Lady Dazzle for what its worth on the few occassions you have replied to my requests for help I have found you to be both helpful and polite.  It is a pity that some people turn it personal. 

Thanks for that, its lovely to hear that our efforts are appreciated by some.  :-D

As a new member, and after reading this lot, could someone tell me if this post takes place in a children's playground?!!! I cant believe there are so many huffy people.  Does no-one have a sense of humour? Seems to be 'my way or no way' on this board!  Have to say though its fair made me laugh this afternoon!  Lighten up!

Regarding John....

Sometimes he seems abrupt but I have never read his posts as personal attacks on anyone. He seems like a straight talker and 'I' think that's a good thing.  I'm not part of his 'clique' and I'm not begging, or showering him with attention but I think his straight talking is much needed here, as is his experience.

I also enjoy Rose's post in the feeding forum, I find her posts quite refreshing and interesting on the whole but can rarely join in as nutrition is not something I know much about. I

I think its a shame if people feel they are being made a fool of if others do not agree with their views but I think that is a problem they have with themselves, most people cope with the idea that opinions are just that, without getting defensive when they are not shared, it happens to us all :)
I don't think anyone groups together in the way you discribe as I say the regular posters often do not share the same views on different subjects sometimes they just all have something to say on that particular thread.  I find it far more unacceptable when small groups arrive in a thread just to say that someone is not entitled to state an opinion on a subject :(

With all due respect Isabel,i think you are one of the worst offenders :) You seem to like "tag teaming" and arguing for the sake of arguing. ;) But each to their own :) I dont have to get drawn into your arguments and i dont need to reply either,i know it takes 2,so i'm not completely blameless,but i have no problem in stating what i think without the need for back up,your posts just sometimes come across as bullying when you hook up with a couple of the others :(

I dont expect to change anything or anyone and i dont want to TELL people how to post or what to say(i hope i'm not giving that impression),i just wanted to state my opinion,thats all :)

I can tell ya,it's a huge relief :D

I have no team Rose I just post what I think on a given topic. I don't share you interest in personal discussions but if bullying is arriving, as a small group, in a thread to accuse someone of following around or simply post personal comments without a single reference to the topic then you could try looking a little more close to home. 

Why should we change who we are for the benefit of a few shy, timid new members or guests who will be given advice and never be heard of again? Couldnt we all think of these threads as "discussions" rather than "arguments" as then we may be more able to take the points for what they are - PEOPLES OPINIONS. Just because we all have a different way of expressing ourselves doesnt make us nasty hoprrible people. As for understanding why we sometimes get a bit annoyed, just research a few threads on crossbreeding, breeding pet dogs/bitches because its good for their health etc. There are some threads coming up time after time and some where good advice is ignored because the poster doesnt want to hear the opposite point of view. After answering these same points for the umpteenth time, it is no wonder that some of start to despair!

yes but isnt champdogs for information doesnt mater if people ask the same question you dont have to answer do you.

Dont you dare go anywhere John. We ALL need you.  The Forum has lost far, far too many reliable and knowledgable members because of irritating snipes such as this. Joan, Tohme, Dizzy to name but a few have dissapeared.  Their wealth of knowledge is missed by so many, and personally I feel that you contribute to this forum with a kind and understanding demeanour.  Dont let the b*******s get you down John.  They only people that have knocked you, seem to be the ones who dont get the answer they want to hear. Their problem, not yours.  I personally have gained so much from your posts, not just to my questions, but from many others you have answered. I could go on but my post would be deleted due to too many of these *************.
Kay

This is not the first time iv'e read a post from John threatening to leave,so i'm not really taking his comment personally ;)

Everyone will post and p.m him, begging him to stay and on it will go,same as usual :D

I must admit i'de have a huge ego too if people were begging ME to stay ;) Attention seekers are something i definately dont have time for :)

Anyway i hope people didnt take any of my comments personally,i was abit weary of voicing them at first but then i would have been one of those people who are too scared to post :( These are JUST MY opinions,people can do with them what they wish.I just think it's good to vent every now and then ;)

Hope everyone put their thick skins on today before logging on :D

:D

Have to agree with Rose, (not too scared to post now are you!) it's very childish of John to spit the dummy and say he's leaving because of what someone said, especially when he was saying people are entitled to their opinions and not to be so thin skinned!

:)

rose dont you give up?

edited it i see?

I couldn't agree more Isabel :)  >I think it's a shame if people think they are being made a fool of if others do not agree with their views but i think that's a problem they have with themselves<

most of the time I try to keep my composure, but hey, we're only human and we all have off days :P It's an information exchange, it's here for debating, learning and most of the time, enjoying :) If people are too thin skinned to accept others opinions, why do they keep coming on here?

I've had my head bitten off more than once on here, but I have now learnt over time, who has valid opinions and advice and who just likes the sound of their own voice. It's very informative and if it changed, I for one, wouldn't want to keep reading the boards.

Exactly, in amongst all this rubbish is some really usefull stuff about dogs :D

its sort of like getting to know people. some people have really annoyed me at times,but basically "thats life" & even in a group of "likeminded" people there ARE going to be people i dont get on with. however wheras in real life i would choose not to speak to them, on a public board ANY body to respond to my posts wether i have time for them or not. then its totally up to me to decide if im to respond or walk away!
my choice,i choose to come on here,nobody forces ,me after all.

there are a few people who "genarally " i always seem to agree with,but its not a clique, just people sharing the same point of view. just as natural as people not sharing it!!!!! :)

An ode to Champdogs
For dogs sites its the best
Some posters get stroppy
But nice are all the rest :)
We don't always agree
And sometimes we even row
So a poem is in order
I'll get started here right now
Rose just loves her feeding
Feels strongly about barf
And Isabel feeds Beta
And I feed half & half
And JG with her Dalmatians
And lots have labradors
Guest posts wanting stud dogs,
Daft posts - please, no more!
Designer crosses all the rage
Poo-dle in the title on every page
Melody SSSSSSSSKKKK with her Mals
But Delta she is mine...
2 Great Danes and a Malamute
Pass me the bottle of wine
And Brainless with her hounds
Of many Elkies fame
Lots of advice and smilies
And an inappropriate name!
Margot with her Aussies
I think she might have six?
And Blue with her westies
Its really quite a mix
There's many a topic
That gets out of hand
And Admin locks it
And folk get banned
And then there's the trolls
Bad breeding and buying
They'd all stop doing it
If we stopped replying
Too many lurkers
and folks I can't mention
I'll be still be here
When I'm drawing my pension
For abrupt and rude as it can be,
It really is the only board for me :)

:) :) :) :) :) :)

:D Me too!

*Applause*

:D :D

(and Delta is MINE!!! :D )

Oh my gosh Chloe that was absolutely brilliant :D :D

Well, this OP must be laughing like a drain at all these shinannigans. Please people, no more infighting.

Dawn R.

I have been on this board as long as John and Lady Dazzle and some others and until relatively recently we had these little disruptions occasionally where posters were accussed of ganging up and not being helpful,but they were few and far between and soon blew over. At the moment I believe we are in danger of losing this usful forum to back biting and infighting.  I suppose it shows that we all care pasionately about our dogs and what we percieve as the correct way to care for them.  I have read debates on here where I have litrally sat on my hands so as not to reply and fuel arguments further but there are those who just can't and are driven to get the last word in regardless I could name names who I believe this applies to but what would that achieve? More argument? Undoubtedly.  This board is to useful to all concerned and I think a step back, a deep breath and a little more respect for each others opinions and advice is whats called for. JMHO

Well I have been here a long time too, and its no secret I have had arguments with some people about things we feel passionate about.  SO WHAT????  Its forgotten and we get on!  I cannot stand people holding grudges, especially from the other side of a computer, life is too short.  So come on guys, forget the past, concentrate on the here and now, I think this board holds a wealth of information for novices and experienced dog folk and long may it continue. :D
Dawn.

Oh, and I'm not being nasty John, but if you dont get back on here, I will find you at Crufts and hit you with a big stick!!  :D :D

yeah Dawn - do you remember the Discover Dogs thread last year? Am going again on friday.....  :D :D :D

I think this board holds a wealth of information for novices and experienced dog folk and long may it continue
I would like to agree with you Dawn but over the past 12 months the numbers of those with experience who have maintained the standard on this board has reduced, and been replaced, unfortunately, by those who have the confidence of ignorance!  Sadly, I can see it degenerating and being the same as all the rest! :( 
If that's what these newbies want, then let them get on with it! 

Yes Chloe I do, :D  guess what, I am doing 3 days this time, but not Friday! :D  Have a great time.
Dawn.

Hi Val,

I can easily see how frustrating some of the comments on this thread and others must be but I honestly don't think anyone who joins this forum with a genuine interest in learning more and sharing their own experiences takes pleasure from debates like this :(  and certainly gain no pleasure from *any* experienced dog folk withdrawing valued advice.  But yes, *some* people just like to be difficult for the sake of it - and that is a great shame.

I've only been a member here for around 6/7 months (I think ;) ) hence easily classed as a "newbie" but I certainly would hate to think I'd contributed to anyone feeling there was no point in continuing with their involvement in the board

There will always be different levels of experience and those of us who seek to gain more knowledge will only do so by having the opportunity to pick the brains of dyed-in-the-wool dog folk - even if/when we don't always like their replies :P

Regards, Teri