I am a reputable breeder of 35 years.

I heard from a friend about champdogs.co.uk, and thought I would take a look.

I must admit, that I find some of the replies to peoples genuine questions (when they are only seeking advice) really quite offensive and sarcastic.

WE all know that there are many unscrupulous breeders about but unless we know personally who these people are who are asking for this advice, why should the presumption be that they are other than genuine people.
It only goes to say that maybe the internet is not such a good place for seeking advice and people should probably think twice !!!!

It makes me wonder that if the people giving out the sarcastic remarks, actually know what they are really talking about, as it seems to me that these remarks seem to come from the same people every time.

And all the people who are recieving the sarcastic and offensive remarks, should not take them to heart.

Regards,
Joe

Joe, you will find that there is small minority of people who continually make the sarcastic remarks and NOT the vast majority ;)

Most of the people here do their best to give sound advice based, in some cases, on as many years (and more) experience as yourself. :)

Hi Guest, I am also new to this site and I second everything you say in your posting I only joined a couple of weeks ago but I am so dissapointed I think its best to leave this little click to themselves.What saddens me is that I love my dogs and would have enjoyed having discussions about them and maybe helping someone along the way.

I'm sorry that you think that we are cliquey, Starryeyes - I've just looked through your posts - you've been positive in your postings, and I thought that you had had some good responses to your queries - so okay - you've had one "run-in" - we all all them from time to time, when we disagree with one another - but it would be a shame if you let that put you off!

Regards

Margot

Hi Margot, It is not my run-in that bothers me if someone
wants to get in a flap over cleaning the floor thats thier problem.
What dissapoints me are the replies to posts which are quite rude,why would someone ask a question if they knew the answer?
we were all new to dogs at sometime in our lives and most of us learn something new everyday.
I'm sure  a lot of people dont even bother to say how obnoxious some of the people are on this site (yourself excluded) they just don't bother to log -in.
thank you for your reply.

I wonder sometimes what people expect from us. We are human beings with likes and dislikes. Sometimes we may not appear quite as rational as at others but this is a dog board for goodness sake. It had people on it with experiences of zero up to 50 or 60 years. It seems at times that all we are doing is setting ourselves up for someone else to take a pop at. The guest, who is all knowing, is not even a member so how long has he (or she) been reading the board? Has he or she EVER read the board or is he/she just another troll trying to stire up trouble? At the end of the day does it even matter what they think? So far this year I have lost three relatives who were not only relatives but were friends. Do you think I care what some Guest/Troll/Fool thinks? If you don't like my post you can lump it!

John. :(

Thank you John
need I say more!

If the all seeing all reading Responsible Breeder is so experienced then maybe he/she would like to join the board and try to help people form time to time rather than slagging us off. As I appear to no longer be your flavour of the month either Starryeyes I'll let you get on with it.

There are plenty of "fluffy" boards out there Starryeyes if they would suit you better.  ;)  I hope that you find somewhere that you're comfortable.
I prefer the straight talking manner of this board where knowledgable and experienced folk do their best to maintain a good standard of dog ownership, training and breeding ethics.:)

I sometimes wonder why we ever bother Val. We do our best to help others then get this kind of post! My guess is that friend Joe is someone who has been banned just trying to stire up trouble. Well, at the moment, I for one have more important things to worry about.

Regards, John

Sorry i just have have to add my input/opinion on this one.

Val i have tried the straightalking manner,and copped it for my troubles.
I have disagreed with the clique on more than one occasion and once again copped a mouthful and rude replies telling me to stop being rude

On the other hand there are always interesting posts and i do learn something new here everyday :),but i cant really say what i feel because i know i will be ganged up on by the usual crew :(

There is definately a clicky feel to this site,i sometimes get the impression that the older members just want themselves and a few select friends on here and the other posters are just a pain :(

This is the ONLY site that gives me butterflies in my stomach when i hit post,because i know if my thoughts and opinions dont fit with the heirachy then i will be made a fool out of.

This is just ofcourse my opinion and as you so eloquently and politely put it John,if you dont like it,lump it :(

You can be guaranteed a full on argument will have ensued somewhere on the boards everytime you log in,or someone will have had a big go at someone else or a newbie will have been put off,never to be seen again.I'm the first to admit that i can be sarcastic but only to the few who insist on yanking my chain and who who are rude and sarcastic to me,alot of people can give it but cry wolf when it's given back to them!

There is a real lack of equality here.If your a long standing member then you can get away with pretty much anything and can be guaranteed back up from every corner.But if your not in this particular group and you feel passionately about something,then your made to feel like a child and that your points are just in-valid and ridiculous.

I know there are lots and lots and lots of posters who feel this way but are just too damn scared to share their views on this particular subject or they have to resort to hiding behind the guest  status. No-one has the right to belittle another person because they give their opinion and when god forbid someone does stand up for themselves and gives as good as they get(like i do) then your chastised for it,it becomes a vicious,malicious circle,and if you havnt got the majority behind you then youv'e got no hope!

Guest please join,hiding behind anonymity does your cause no good,no need to be scared,everyone has the right to voice their opinion,and if enough people stood up then maybe things could change and the boards may be a little better balanced,but as long as people dont voice up or post under anonymous names then nothing will EVER change :(

Ducks for cover.......

I feel miffed now :D  Am I in or out of the clique.  If I am out then I will feel most ofended at being left out :(  But if I am in then do I want to be, as I ahve never considered anyone elses likely responses.

I simply address myself to the post.  To be honest i rarely bother to read the names of posters.  I assume that the discussions are there for other people to use as research when they need.

Must be very thick skinned as I have never felt I couldn't write what I want (albeit with mega typos), after all why woudol I worry about what someone might think of my post, we are all enitiled to an opinion, and I don't take it personally, as I don't know anyone on the board in real life, and think I have only met one person at Ctufts that is still on the board.  There are probably people I do know on ehre, but wouldn't know them by their moniker. :D

I agree Brainless, if anyone cares to look it can be seen that some posters will generally agree with others on some subjects and then disagree with the very same people on another subject :)  The good thing about this site is that it is very well moderated allowing people the freedom to hold opinions.  I do not understand people being scared to post other than they cannot cope with others disagreeing with them but I do know they should never be scared of personal attacks as Admin will always respond if anyone finds something offensive.

Sorry Isobel but I do not agree that Admin allow people the freedom to hold opinions - I have been accused with trying to stir things up when I give opinions that do not fit in with theirs ( and I don't believe I have ever been offensive :( ). It seems that some have more 'right' to express their views than others.

Yvonne

I'm not sure I know what Admins opinions are on a lot of things, and I remember the days when they were "real people" :D joining in on discussions.  Getting pulling up for stirring it may not be a reflection on whether they share your views merely that they feel you are.......well stirring it up a bit.  Certainly I'm not sure that Admin share all my views :)

> I feel miffed now   Am I in or out of the clique. < LOL Brainless  I wonder to !!!

I have posted here for 4 years now and just fit in where I can. I take the good with the bad.  Sometimes people have misunderstandings but hey that is life.  It did take me a little while to understand or to back off occasionally with some posters , BUT I think we also learn as time goes on how to word our posts and to try and use smiles etc.

I am also terrible with names.

Pam 

Hi Rose,
It's good to know that I'm not alone in my opinion you put it so elequently.
I'm sure there are plenty more friendly people on this site.

Rose, more or less what I said ...re the minority ;) You have put it very well. I have never understood why people respond to a post that will so obviously wind them up ..it baffles me completely!

Ditto :)

Daisy

Surely, we were all "newbies" here once? The point is, if you cant stand people disagreeing with your own point of view, then a discussion board is not the place to be. Some of the posts referred to as "nasty" are, to my mind nothing of the sort (but then I'm a blunt speaking northerner who prefers straight talking rather than beating round the bush). The way the poster puts across a point is not important as long as the point is valid. Yes, we all get a bit "cross" sometimes - those of us with a sense of humour can be sarcastic, but we are human - people are all different. It makes me mad that it is mainly guests who come on here to gripe - why not join and get properly involved? How many of these are doing this to scare of new members so that rival boards with "fluffy" talk can benefit? As John says, like it or lump it - I'm sure there are more new members who prefer straight talking advice than ones who are "scared" to join. 

1. Someone posts a question - not an opinion.

2. That post gets sarcastic/abrupt/rude responses and nice, polite, welcoming responses.

The poster is more likely to listen to those who are nice than those who are not. The poster may well get defensive at the other responses and therefore leave none the wiser. Its human nature to be defensive.

There are posts no here from folk saying that they find some posts rude and abrupt, yet STILL some folk are not listening. What does that say to you?

I would say that if you can't post in a reasonably polite manner, then you shouldn't post at all. (aimed at everyone Fillis - not just you :) )

PS - doesn't have to be fluffy - just pleasant!

Usually the original post is a question - yes, (although on this thread it wasnt) but it is the replies that are the ones being pointed to as nasty and they are points or opinions in the main.

Hi Chloe,

Very well put - particularly the PS ;)

Regards, Teri 

Now that does surprise me Starryeyes :( I have looked through ALL your posts and only found one slightly *off* post in response to all of yours.

In life, we will always find someone who disagrees with us :) That doesn't make Champdogs a bad place though :)

I am not a breeder! Just a plain Jane owner with 26 years experience of the breed I own!  I have made my own posts and had many positive replies!  Some of the posters on the forum do NOT make themselves clear within their posts! Tell all, and we will be forthcoming with advice!!!!

Julia

Its not my posts you should be reading ,being new to this site I looked back on lot and lots of different queries and some of the replies were unbelievable.
thank you for your reply

I know that i have made some controvercial comments, been a little off, been too quick off the mark, failed to read a post proerly and not really contributed to many (if any) posts very well.
BUT, when i came here looking for advice as a guest two years ago, i was helped, criticised and made to feel a little stupid.
I ignored the bad things, recognising that the criticism was due to some people being sick to the back teeth of people making the same mistakes.
Its like when people come to the board asking a bout breeding. It is often clear that the poster is not going to take the proper, responsible steps to breed properly. I have read these posts for two years, read the responses and i empathise with the poeple here who answer these questions day in, day out. It is disheartening, especially when it is someone about to undo years of work on THEIR particular breed, to read how they only want money, understand from the posters own words that no research has been done into the breed and so forth.

Life is full of criticisms, let downs and bad experiences. Surely it is best to be forewarned by someone who has had the experience and save yourself the bother?
Criticism is the best way to learn in this world!

Oh yes Starryeyes, I know exactly what you mean re other posts ..I thought you were talking about your own for a moment, sorry :)

Hi Joe,

As you describe yourself as a reputable breeder of some 35 years I should well imagine that you have acquired some varied and excellent experience over that time and by joining the Board instead of leaving a comment as a Guest only (which gives you neither the opportunity to reply to members nor to pass on your advice to other visitors to the forum) you have not afforded anyone the time to "pick your brains" :)

Yes, there are sometimes very terse responses to posts from members and frequently some rip-roaring sarcastic arguments about one thing or another :rolleyes: however everyone on the board has at least two things in common 1) the love of our dogs and 2) that we are all human ;)

If you take time to read ALL of the many posts which appear on a daily basis you will notice that by far the majority are replied to in a helpful, friendly and encouraging manner.  It just depends on whether you intentionally came on to look for specifically inflammatory topics or actually a general over view.

>the people who are recieving the sarcastic and offensive remarks, should not take them to heart<

Your closing comment, however, I agree with entirely  :P
Regards,
Teri :)

I have been for about 1 1/2 yrs and have learned so much when I first came on here I asked allsorts of stupid questions still do and have never had my head bitten off I feel people on here are willing to share their knowledge and experience if people will listen.
so KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK EVERYONE.
Mary

I think 90% of the time its just a case of bad wording or misreading of peoples replies. Its nowhere near as easy as reading a facial expression and its very easy to misenterpret someone. Im learning! lol

I'm the queen of not getting my point accross in text,what i could explain in two sentences face to face just about produces a novel when i have to write it down.

Isabel people are worried to post because they are scared of being made a fool of,not particularly being personally attacked,altho that does happen but not always in an out and out way,if you know what i mean??
And it is intimidating for some when a group of people come down on them because they just dont agree.

Brainless i also mentioned having to have a thick skin on another post and i got slammed for it,i thought it was from you,will go check! Another poster said you shouldnt have to have a thick skin to post here,but i really think you do have to. As others have mentioned it is so easy to misinterpret the written word,i've offended people without ever meaning to as i'm sure have many others???

The point is people should not have to be scared to ask questions in fear of,well..whatever!!

I would really like to list the names of the obvious offenders and have a friendly discussion about it and perhaps get other peoples points of views,i'm curious if i'm the only one who see's these people as i do,but this would probaly end up offending folk,even tho i have absolutely no problems in people telling me what my faults are,how else can i change/improve things if nobody tells me?? ;)

I came on here over a year ago and went off again because I found people were ready to jump on you I think the replies now are a lot more friendly than they were except for one or two people who try to look for a double meaning and think it is clever to do a put down.  Fortunately they are in the minority.  I think sometimes people are a bit too quick to judge but if some of the muppets who come on her deliberately to say something stupid to wind people up then the replies would probably be more constructive.  It is very difficult to tell whether some people are genuinely stupid or doing a wind up.  We all feel passionately about our dogs or in my case animals in general and when you read of people doing stupid things then obviously replies will be curt.

If I dont like the way a conversation is going now I just drop out of it or dont reply as everyone has and is entitled to their own point of view whether I agree with it or not.  This board is no worse than a lot and at least there are some genuinely knowledgeable people on here which is more than can be said for some.

Opinions are like bottoms everyone has got one :)

This shows exactly how easily posts are misunderstood.  I asked the question 'Am I thick skinned' as I don't think I am any more than the next man/woman :D 

I just cannot understand why anyone would get upset by a post and be afraid to post?

How can things be taken personally, we all use screen names, don't know the other people so how cfan it be personal.

I feel that most people address the post/situation not the person.

There are times when I really feel I no longer want to come here and waste my time trying to help others. We get accused of being cliques, of ganging up on others and goodness knows what else. Some of you who are quick to criticise better start boneing up on things because you could soon be the only ones left to answer the questions.

Have some of you looked at other boards lately? Boards come, attract a few member, grow, then slowly die. Literally none has the hard core of members of Champdogs where people KNOW that there is going to be someone who can help. Even so, so many of the best people have gone. There are very few of the originals left here and those few are posting less and less. But still we are called cliques! Even some who called us cliques a short time ago are now finding themselves being called a clique!!

A week ago someone wrote on here "I do enjoy reading you reply's." Now it appears I'm the devil incarnate. You cannot have it both ways. I post what I feel and as I said before, if you don't like it you can lump it. Anything else is censorship.

John 

The fact remains John that the impatience you  feel does come across in your posts sometimes. It might be the umpteenth time that YOU have seen the question, but it is probably the first time the poster has asked it ;)

I would suggest to all regular posters that if you feel annoyed or irritated by a question, DON'T answer it :) That way, you won't get upset and the poster may get the question answered.

We are all guilty of impatience at times but there are several members who regularly make unhelpful posts in reply to obvious trolls. This just perpetuates the thread rather than letting it die naturally :(

Now how did I know YOU would be critical Melodysk? Some of your posts leave a lot to be desired!

Thank you John :) You have proved my point I think :) I did say : We all suffer from impatience at some point

;)

The vast majority of my posts are helpful, giving out links and pointing new members to various things that can help. You will rarely see me post on an obvious troll thread though. I DO disagree with people sometimes and yes, I can be sarcastic with the best of them. I rarely jump on someone though ;)

Meaning that I do I suppose?

Well said John!

Quote from Rose

'The point is people should not have to be scared to ask questions in fear of,well..whatever!!'

In fear of what?! I too cannot believe people would be scared to post. What's the worst that could happen, someone could disagree with you? There's lots of scary things in this world, but posting a comment  on a dog site isn't one of them!

I LOVE Champdogs, it's so informative and helpful, plus I love the heated debates, if people didn't care what would be the point?

To those complaining about the sarcastic posts (guilty!) have a read of Akita Lees recent and older posts and see how frustrating it is when people simply will not listen to good advice, and you can see dogs are going to get hurt because of it.

I'm sorry Rose, I'm not having a go at you, just simply saying stick in there it's worth it!

I actually agree with Rose. Some folk are just not that thick skinned and get easily offended - someone new to internet boards/feeling sensitive could easily be upset by some of the caustic replies they might get to an innocent, if naive question. Everyone has to ask questions at some point with dogs and you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar :)

Exactly Chloe :)

i agree chloe! what a good way to put it!

i always try to remember "that every one has to start somewhere" & new members may be new to forums aswell as dogs!

I agree regarding the new posts, I try never to reply to trolls although it is hard to spot some of them :)

Ditto,  Teri :P
who's now going to stop reading this thread because it's starting to read like just the kind of thread that gives the forum an *alleged* bad reputation :(

Hi Husky :)

I've had a few,emmm...debates ;) particularly on the feeding thread,where it was me against them :D 
I like to think i shoot straight from the hip(another comment someone pm'd me) and i'm not scared to stand up for myself and to be honest if people are going to dish it out then they have to be prepared to take it too :)

Next time i log on,there are sometimes a couple pm's awaiting me,a feel a lump in my throat as i click on message,thinking it's someonme having a go at me about a previous thread :o

This is a pm word for word of what a member wrote to me a couple weeks back> "Just wanted to let you know that i totally agree with what you said on the XX post,i wanted to get involved,but i was too SCARED i would get attacked as well." < It then went on about the particular subject,but you get the general gist :(

Here is another > Hi, just started to read this topic, saw your 1st post 00:56 i agreed, then saw your next post 02:41 1/3/05 ,,i giggled to myself this is justwhat my reply would have been (if i was brave enough too). I scrolled down a few more post and they got boreing ........Your answer was just what i wanted to here from a dog lover . You have my respect <

Here is a pm i just recieved pertaining to this thread > For what its worth, I think John is one of the worst people here for jumping on new posters :-(  <

John i am not here to grovel at your feet,nor do i have to write every word to please you,which it seems is something you expect!! You have made me and many,many others feel the fool on more than one occasion :(

Yes i know,i know...I can lump it

I replied to the first 2 saying please dont be scared to post and the usual tra la la,about free speech etc. which i'm sure you all do not want to hear :D  2 od the above were from long standing members :(

To the above people who's pm's i have just copied,please,please dont be angry with me for posting them here,ofcourse i wont reveal your names,promise :)

To the long time members,i know you have been here for a very long time and i can totally understand you all getting pi**ed off with the same old questions and repeating the same old replies :rolleyes:
Everything i have written on this thread has been said with the utmost respect from myself..does that make sense?????

Best wishes,

Rose :)

<<I think John is one of the worst people here for jumping on new posters >>

If that is what people think of me then OK, fair enough, I'm gone!

Its quite obvious why they would be frightened to post, personal attacks like this are against the TOS.  I would not let anything these people, who cannot cope with opinions differing to yours, trouble me in the least, John.  They certainly aren't the majority, who clearly appreciate your contributions, they are just more obvious at times due to their sharp natures.

Isabel the above comment is NOT a personal attack.Come on now :rolleyes: I've heard you say worse :D

Throwing/threatening the TOS around is getting a bit old,dont you think???

And no i'm not going to go into minute detail with you about what a personal attack is,as i'm sure you already know :)

You and I are not going to agree about what is a personal comment its not something I like to go in for so I doubt you have heard worse from me.