Thanx again pls will you let me know asap.

If a name appears at the start of a name that means that the dog was bred by that breeder, if it appears at the end of the name that dog was bought in. It may have been bought in to show and not made the grade but because of it's background or perhaps it was strong in some conformation point it was taken out of the ring and used for breeding. Do you understand what I am saying, it you go through your dogs pedigree you will see the affix name appears some times at the start of a name and sometimes at the end. When it is at the end that dog was bought in.

Not sure I have made a good job of that , anyone do it better please.

Doesnt always work like that.  A breeder can buy in a puppy and put his Affix at the beginning of the dogs name if the parents of the puppy had that breeders affix.  If not then the affix is put at the end.

Think that is what I was saying, if the dam had that breeders affix then it would be of their breeding lines, would it not. If someone is breeding a dam on your behalf then the pup has your affix but if they are breeding a bitch you bred and sold to them they would use their affix for the puppies but the bitch would still carry yours. There is no way someone other than you can use your affix on puppies they have breed but they can use a bitch that has your affix to breed a litter but the name is not given to the puppies as an affix, is it?

Just re-read, do you mean that if someone buys a dog and a bitch from you with your affix and then mates those together and you then buy back a pup you can give that pup your affix and not the affix of the person who bred the pup, is that what you are saying. If so don't know, never come across that but supose it does happen if some one looses their lines, can't think why you would buy back in something you would already have, or am I now more confused than the person we are trying to help.

Yes Jackie, if an owner of an affix buys in a pup from a litter where sire and dam were both bred by themselves but sold to other people they can put their own affix at the front of the name, despite not being the breeder of the litter or owner of the bitch.
:)

Rings a bell, bet that does not happen very often

Rings a bell, bet that does not happen very often, would they then but the breeders affix on the end?

Quite correcct,  my parti-colour bitch Evelyn, was bred by me and registered as Watermark Evil in White,  however, her parents were co-bred by my partner and I, so when Evelyn was transferred into our joint names we added the other affix, and she became Afterglow Watermark Evil in White.  When you have bred the parents you can put your affix at the front
of the name.
bye
Gwen

When you are researching to see if your dogs are compatable to use together you need to follow and check the health status of the lines of the dog using the first part of the name, not the last part. Think I am confusing myself here, someone explain more clearly.

There are many well known affixes listed in the pedigrees of your dogs. Many are good show lines too.

I think if I were you I would take both my pedigrees and go and discuss the whole question of breeding with your dogs breeder. He/she is the best person to guide you, they may know things about earlier generations which you will be doubling up on which they might think is not wise to do so. They may be able to help you wih puppy sales as it is well known that people will say they'd love to have a puppy, then when the time comes they have changed their minds and you are left with puppies you can't sell.

The breeder of your dogs may also know if there are any problems which you might have to deal with when whelping your bitch or rearing your puppies. Everyone has to start somewhere and I think by discussing your ideas with your breeder you will get the best advice. The breeder of your dog and bitch if they researched their breeding lines well before they mated the parents of your dogs will have information which you will find very useful.

After a quick look at  the pedigrees you gave 2 or 3 things immediatley spring to mind - firstly, several well known affixes, which is good, secondly only 1 Champion in the first 3 generations, which would worry me,  and thirdly a couple of very obviously pet names in here as well, again worrying.

Several of us have been advising you that contact with your dog and bitches breeders , but re-reading one of your original posts I think you said they were not involved in the show or working gundog world.  Did they seem knowledgable about the breed, or were they just breeding from their pets?  If the latter is so, they are unlikely to give you sound or helpful advise.  As I advised before, try a google search of some of the affixes, you will come up with some of  the kennels of your dogs ancestors, and may be able to talk to people with first hand knowledge of your dogs lines.

bye
Gwen

Both breeders of my dogs used the same breeder for their studs all along the way. Obviously the bitches were their own going back quite afew generations I know for sure on my bitches side my breeder owned the four  bitch retreivers on dams side. If that makes sense. on my dogs side 3 generations were owned by my other breeder. But as i said early all bred with stud dogs bred by Mrs Wood from Lillings of York.

If you can why not also ask Mrs Wood of York, as she has been advising the breeders of your two, it would I think pay for you to talk to her, as she is obviously very experienced and would offer even more knowledgeable advice than we can give or maybe even your dogs breeders. Definately worth a try anyway.

Yes i will probably try and get hold of her tomorra, shes an old lady well in her eighties so im told.