This is exactly what I have been saying, just because a dog is on a lead doesn't mean it is under control, and I hate those extender leads, they really are mis-used by many.
When I had my GSD on the lead and we had a sutuation with a loose dog, I would take his collar and turn him away from it and make him sit, luckily as with most dog fights he was not out to do damage just frighten the other dog, but the potential was always there.
I really don't know what the answer is for the dog mentioned here, it's up to the owner to rectify it and he won't then there really isn't much hope. Ingrid

Ingrid

You've got a GSD- what's your image? Thought I'd ask since digger mentioned it!

ok 5'3, medium length natural blonde hair, usually covered in mud when out with the dogs, no body piercing, 2 teenage daughters, usually easy going but can flare up if I see someone mistreating a dog.
My boy is a big softy, loves everyone and even the vet can do anything to him without a murmer. I've just registered him as a canine blood donor with the vet, for which they have to be placid. Ingrid

Absolutely right Jackie and Ingrid. On lead is only the start. No one could say that a 8 year old child taking a rottie out on a lead could ever be in control of it ( no offence rottie owners, I was just thinking of a big strong dog) Who ever is in charge of the dog must be capable of holding it back. It could be a cat the dog lunges at and pulls the owner across a busy road in front of a car. Poor driver!! But no one could ever accuse a dog of being out of control however much it disliked other dogs if its on lead and held by someone capable.I doubt if you'll get any help financially with your vet bills from this chap, he sounds a right charmer, I just feel so sorry for his dog, because I have no problem with dominant unsocial dogs, just some fool owners who cannot or simply will not take the necessary action to keep other peoples dogs safe.

We had GSD's as children (I'm the oldest of two girls) and we were never allowed to walk them as they were just too powerful should a situation like this occur. I agree that this dog's in the right as it was the one on the lead therefore in control, but you do have to feel sympathy for the other poor owner too, imagine if it were you! It must have been horrific! The thing that gets me is large dogs tend to give a warning first and in this case it doesn't sound like it has, which would lead people to believe that it is/can be quite aggressive. Also the attack must have lasted long (to do that much damage) enough so why didn't the owner do anything to stop it?

Ingrid- SORRY :( I'm only messing- it's just that I don't really see that there is a particular image ?

Hi

I forgot to respond to the question of insurance. Yes the terrier is insured up to £4000 worth of Vet's bills. So all that side should be OK. I was just curious to the total cost of all this. Up to £500 I've been told (WOW) Just goes to show how important it is to have a dog insured.

I said around £500 too! Aren't I good :) Any prizes for being closest ;)

How do you feel for me with no insurance just out of pocket-BIG time:(

Glad the poor mite's o.k though! How naive was I- not thinking to have the cat insured- no insurer would touch him with a barge poll now either:(

Years ago I had my GSD bitch Ghillie on a Sit Stay in my back yard (I was a renter). The landlady's Boston Terrier--who made a practice of teasing my dog when she was on my porch or inside the fence) ran up in front of her (the Boston was loose) and started yapping. My dog calmly stood up, picked the black and white pain in the butt up, shook her once and dropped her. My landlady came running out to her dog's shrieking and threatened to shoot my dog. I explained the situation and when she realized that not one drop of blood or any damage could be found, she shut up and left. The little dog never came near us again, and when she was in sight, my dog ignored her.
MJ with 'ghans (had Westies in the 60's and 70's)

The on lead off lead debate can go on and on and everyone will have different opinions but those of you who claim to have 100% control over your dogs off the lead are kidding yourselves.
a good control maybe but never 100%. That is what a lot of people think BEFORE an incident.
Having said that, I feel it is a pity if dogs can't play off the lead with other dogs in parks etc and
a big part of the pleasure/ social aspects of walking a dog would be lost lost if all dogs had to be on leads always when other dogs are around and even more if muzzeled.
Seems to me that good old common sense is required here.
Ted

I agree, that is why it is so important to have dogs well socialised who are good wth their canine etiquette, so that flare ups are unlikely, even if the other dog is unfriendly, it usually takes two to have a fight, as if the other dog backs off or ignores the touchy dog the situation can be got in hand.

I can always rely on my three eldest to walk on when told if we meet other dogs that are either over boisterous or nervous, but the youngest is not quite so good on recall, but fortunately if when she is given a steady command she stops short and waits on the other dogs reaction, if it doesn't want to play she just moves on if it does she is delighted!

It would be great to have a total recall at all times, but in practice I have found it easier to send them 'On' past, than to get them to turn back to me once moving!!

I recentely had a close incedent with 2 GSD's Ihave a 3 year old who is not great with other dogs
& a bitch that is so as walking along the river the other day I spotted an owner with 2 GSD's who started to put them bach on the lead,
I responded by calling the older dog to come back, who did straight away, but while putting this one back on his lead the younger bitch had run towards the 2 GSD's
lukky for us the bigger & possibly older GSD barked at her & she laid down then ran back to me
I was then able to put her back on her lead
BUT if their had been a fight it would have been MY dogs fault not the GSD's

Ted,
common sense must be your middle name!:) you gave me sensible advice when my rotty had a spat with another dog, I took note and now keep the old girl on her lead until we reach a quiet spot where I then let her off. There are two sides to every story and as a couple of others have rightly said why is it always the bigger dog that gets the blame.
As a point of interest when I owned my GSD I was told by my local policeman that as long as I had my dog on it's lead it was considered 'under control' as soon as I let go of that lead or released the dog then it was no longer under my control no matter how well trained it was.
Perhaps what we need is to have some kind of 'dog owners code' like the country code, then we might avoid getting our 4 legged friends into such situations.

Hi Sable,

really pleased to hear the dog is on the mend and glad you didn't take it to heart what I wrote. Suppose you hit home as my afghan can be funny with other dogs and although has never attacked one (god forbid it never happens) I do not take the risk and ALWAYS walk him on a lead unless on private ground or in a contained area (See post on Great Dane playmate) My worst nightmare is a loose dog approaching and the owner being unable to recall. Yes I COULD pull my dog off but what would happenif the loose dog kept coming at him.

Any dog that gets attacked and injured regardless of the blame has my best wishes however I know that emotionally when you are closely involved sometimes it can be hard to sit on the fence and take an outsiders view. So I don't blame you if I got your back up but then I was sitting on the other side of the fence:)

Firstly I would say step outside the circle and think 'whilst this dog is walked on a lead is it really a danger to other dogs' also 'maybe, could my friend in the ensuing hysteria misplaced the owners abuse for panic and annoyance on the GSD owners part' Not easy I know however issues that need to be raised. Rest assured that if my afghan had done that and the injuries were down to my direct handling of the situation and my inability to pull him off he would now be muzzled whenever out in public.

Has the airdale owner approached the owner of the GSD since this incident and if so what was the reponse. Yes if it was me I would be full or remorse if my dog had attacked another but ONLY if that attack happened due to my negligence or lack of control. Maybe the owner of the GSD feels they were in no way responsible.

As mentioned in an earlier post your friend can have a word with the police however I personally would much rather talk to them one to one. If they love the animals as much as I love mine (even though mine can be a real pain in the ****) then hopefully both parties can sit down and resolve this issue. Hard as it maybe they have to remember that this GSD may not be the big bad wolf they would like to think. Yes they're dog has been hurt but with hindsight would they of done things differently. Maybe using a 3rd party may help, however they need to ensure that emotions are kept out of the equation therby minimising the risk of an arguement.

If the GSD was insured and the owner agrees then hopefully all vet fee's will be covered. If not they do have their own insurance to fall back on. Not an ideal situation I know but what the hell we all pay are premiums each month so why not use it.

Regardless, within a week hopefully everyone should of calmed down and be able to look againat the situation and best how to deal with it. If you genuinely beleive this dog is a danger and the owner is unwilling to compromise then yes maybe they do have a case to answer. All I ask is that they are 100% sure they are going down the right route as there but for the grace of god go a lot of us owners with an unsociable dog.

I am really glad your friends dog is on the mend and hope you do get this situation resolved and believe me if they can prove that this dog is a danger with an owner who is unwilling to do anything then I am right on their side.

Regrds
Lisa

After getting through eveyone's posts. It does not matter what breed of dog did what to whom. its about control and common sense shorly? I get cross if Molly is on her lead and a dog apears from no were as Molly can get a little cross on her lead so I have to control her by walking to heel telling her she is a good girl keep walking then the other dog tends to pick up on not being welcome and bounds off somewhere else. If Molly is off her lead bounding around exploring and comes across another dog off there lead and end up chasing and playing whats wrong with that? Though the rule apply's if Molly sees a dog on a lead she is called back told to drop down and wait until the other dogs passes do I get a thank you?? this is a very sad story and thank heavens the dog is going to be OK. I think sorry to say that if your dog is off the lead and will not return to you when called and ends up in this situation then its your fault? The other dogs were on their leads and with a small dog will bite at their legs and stomach and throats, terrible the dogs were being dogs! People just do not learn and as I have said over and over gives us good owners a bad name.

Julieann

Hi Sable, You do not give the circumstances, I mean was the Airdale and owner just walking past or were they walking past and the Airdale went up to the other dog (breed does not matter 'cept Toja and Pit Bull type).
What were the immediate circumstances leading up to the incident?

Penny, Don't mean to be picky but what do you mean by "pit bull type"?

Penny

Do you just want to make it clearer what you mean by 'breed does not matter 'cept Toja and Pit Bull type'?
What exactly do you mean by the breed does not matter with the exception of these two? Why these two? Correct me if I'm wrong- I'm a bit lost here !

I have a few more facts now, I shall fill you in.
My friend and their dog were walking with my friends dog off lead. The Terrier was walking at my friends feet walking away from the non-specificied breed of large dog as he saw them coming. The other dog and owner caught up and the incident happened right at my friends feet. The Terrier did not approach the larger dog at all. Something which at first I thought had happened.

I had a visit from my friends today with their dog. WOW he had loads of damage. He literally had been ripped up. Nearly all of the damage was done to the back of his body, I mean around this bottom. I would have thought that if the Terrier had been asking for trouble he would have been facing the larger dog. Anyway he was full of his usual self. Cones do look funny though.

So glad that the poor dog is back to his old self again- it could have quite easily went another way!

That's puts a whole different spin on things. I stand by my first comment that the larger dog must be reported, it sounds dangerous and out of control.

I'm so glad the terrier is recovering, how is your friend? He/she must have been terrified.

Fiona

If the dog and owner came that close past you, then the large dog owner should have kept his dog ont the side away from you, especially if his dog is antisocial. At club we do an excersise that each dog walks around the room past the other dogs and handlers. the stationary dogs and the dog walking past are trained to ignore the other dog, BUT IT IS ALWAYS DONE SO THAT THE HANDLERS ARE BETWEN THE DOGS!! When walking in the street i always walk so that passersby (with or without dogs) come past me and not past the dos, as the people may not like, or be afraid of the dogs. If the path is narrow then I stop and make them wait so people can pass.

If the big dogs owner had adopted the above approach the incident would not have occured, even if the dog had lunged. This certainly is different from the terrier approaching the leashed dog! I would contact the Police, and make it clear that you would like them to have a word, and perhaps 'Caution' the owner, and certainly request payment of the vets fees! It is neither here nor there that your friend was mostly Insured, with most Insurance she may find her Premiums have been loaded on renewal!

I am releived that he seems to be his happy self!

Hmmm - i still think there is something odd about that attacking dog - the attack as described seems almost frenzied, with no inhibition, which you don't often get in a pet dog.

Very strange.

So glad Terrier is recovering, they are game fellows, are'n't they :)

Lindsay

Does sound odd doesn't it Lindsay, so glad the Airedale is doing well. Ingrid

I wouldn't wish harm on any dog - love em all no matter how big or small, but I have to ask you this...

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOUR WORKMATE BE UPSET WHEN THE AGGRESSIVE DOG WAS ON A LEAD AND HERS WASN'T?!!! WHY WAS HER DOG FREELY ALLOWED TO APPROACH A DOG ON A LEAD????

It makes me angry that this Airedale is suffering because of the carelessness of it's owner. Every dog depends on it's owner to assess and make judgements on any potentially threatening situation...

The owner of the aggressive dog should not have been abusive, but both him and his dog had the right to be left alone by dogs off-lead and out of control...

Perhaps you should have read Sables last message before you posted yours. The details are below.

Sable 17.03.02 23.41GMT

Fiona

My apologies! I had missed that last one! If that is a true representation of the incident then the owner of the aggressor should have the book thrown at him.. the heavier the better! Joking aside, I would like to suggest that if this dog is seen out in public again without a muzzle, it should be reported to the police and the Dog Warden.

Pit bull type is the legal wording of the 1991 dangerous dogs act, as follows,

1.—(1) This section applies to—
(a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
(b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
(c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.

It also states further on in the act that if any dog is dangerously out of control it can be put down..
So if your dog is off the lead it is in law out of control, no matter how close it is to you, if it runs accross the road it is a danger in law.
There have been a lot of happy go lucky mongrals and other freindly dogs put down
put down because they ran up to someone who did not like dogs and they called the police..
the law says 'if a dog appears to be threatening'....

Hi guys, just a quick update, my friends have not seen the dog since. The owners (if they are!!??) have been seen loads but with no dog! In fact no one has ever seen that dog before or since the incident. I just wonder if they were looking after it, have got rid? We shall see. Anyway the little one was up on Thursday, really has made a huge recovery. He has had his stitches out but is really weary of other dogs (understandably so)

Thanks for all your advice etc.

Sable

Thanks for letting us know how he's getting on. Thank goodness he's okay...