A fellow workmate of mine whom happens to live very near me (hence why I am very concerned) Her dog got savagely attacked last night by a some sort of (GSD looking) large dog. The owner of the aggressor did have the dog on a lead but my friend did not have hers on a lead. The Airedale Terrier is now in a sort of Intensive Care Unit at the Vets and may not pull through. I just wanted to know what the legal situation is. The owner did not try to get the GSD ( I'm not sure 100% if it was a GSD but something of a similar size) off the Airedale Terrier, and was very abbusive to my friend when challenged later about the incident. I know the little dog very very very well and I feel worried about taking my dog ( Sheltie) out when I know this dog lives only 200 yards away. I look forward to any comments about this subject as a whole.
I hope I haven't got the backs up of GSD owners as I know quite unfairly they have had bad press. but I was trying to paint a picture .

Thanks

Sable

Were there any witnesses? My first port of call would be the police station. It may not do any good but with a vets report there might be enough to get the agressive dog dealt with.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the Airedale.

Fiona

This is a subject that has come up time and time again. If you look back through previous posts you may be able to find some info that may be of help to you.
In my opinion if the large dog was on a lead, then the owners of it were not to blame. Your friends dog ran up to it off lead and put the large dogs owner in a position where by they couldn't do anything about the incident. Your friends terrier was in a position that it could have run off from the fight as the large dog was being held by its owner. Did it not try to do this? Was it put in intensive care from one bite? I don't mean to sound harsh (after just reading through this post) but terriers aren't renowned for backing down from fights.
Naomi.

good point, I hadn't thought of that.

A very sad situation though :(

Fiona

Keep us updated on how the poor dog is.

Thanks for the info. The Terrier was trying to get away and when the my friend tried to help their dog the large dog just pulled him away for some more. The situation arose when my friend saw the dog coming over with the owner so he called the Terrier with him. The Terrier stopped and the other large dog approached and with no warning got hold of him by his neck. However it was not only one bite, the attack went on for a minute or so. That's all I know so far. My friend was getting pretty choked telling me this so I'll wait a day or so before asking further questions. I don't know if there were any witnesses or not. Thanks for your concerns. I shall keep you posted on how the little one is.

Thanks very much!

I hope the terrier pulls through :-(

So sad for all concerned when this happens, I know Iwould be worried living so close to such a dog, the owner may not be aware of his/her dog's attitude as this could have been the first time it had happened?

They should at least have the dog muzzled in a public place i guess, if the damage was so serious as it sounds. What a dreadful situation....:(

Lindsay

Try talking to the Dog warden if you know where this
person lives and don't mind getting involved. We had
a similar situation with a completely untrained Dobe
which would attack any dog even when kept on its
lead. I don't know all the details but the warden did
go and see the man after a number of us complained
and the dog had to wear a muzzle when in public
eventually.But speak to other dog walkers and see
if this has happened before.
Just thought, I live in a village where everyone
knows everyone else. Might not be so easy to get
involved in your situation.
But I do know how you feel about taking your dog
out and worrying about who you are going to see.
Jaq

Sable I do hope the terrier recovers, it's such an awful thing to happen.
As the owner of a 9 stone, once dog hating, GSD I should be on the defensive here, but I find it so sad that yet another incident like this has happened. I spent a long time working with my boy and it sounds as though this owner was not strong enough to hold his dog so should have had it better trained even on a lead.
I always blame the owners not the dog, my boy was a rescue and didn't have the socialisation he should have, so when he was attacked he turned this way towards every dog we met, took a long time and a lot of hard work but I no longer have to avoid other dogs now. Ingrid

I have to say I agree, it is sad, but it was the terrier who was not under control, and really caused itself to get hurt, he would have been able to tell that the large dog did not have friendly intentions, but thought he would take him on. It would be most unfair to take action against this persons dog, who was kept on lead probably because the owner knew that it didn't like other dogs. I have often had terriers come asking for a fight with my dogs, whofortunately are not interested and just ignore them (they are bitches) as they know I won't have any scrapping, and are of an affable disposition.

I have also been in the situation with my friends Dobermans in the street of a Staffie cross slipping its lead and running towards me and the Dobes, they of course fire up, this is natural to them as they are Guarding me from a perceived attacker. These same dogs off lead are extremely good with other dogs, usually choosing to ignore them totally!

I wouldn't worry about getting anyone's back up- after all if the dog is some what vicious then really it's the owner to blame rather than the GSD (providing it is that breed)! It does sound like the dog's vicious as many large breeds usually bark or growl to give out a warning first!

I hope the dog's ok though- does sound extremely bad! Good luck and if I were you I'd keep my own dog on a lead until the situation's resolved.

Sorry I can't help with legal matters, just offer my sympathy!:(

Thanks everyone for your comments. Like I say I'll kepp you informed of the little one.

OK at the risk of p****ing everyone off I thought I would comment. All too often on this board we hear of dogs off a lead with owners who have no control and boy do we all get annoyed. How many posts have we read, commented on about people who visit here out walking there dogs and an incident occurs due to another dog not being under control. We are all quick to defend the on lead dog and condemn the off lead dog. So why the change all of a sudden.

This was a case of a dog being attacked by another dog and yet the one on the lead is automatically deemed guilty. Nobody knows all the facts not even the poster, but surely if the terrier had been under complete control in the first instance this would never of happened. After all it wasn't as if the GSD? pulled away so strongly that the owner let the lead drop. Yes the owner became aggresive, wouldn't you, I know I would. If I was out with one of my dogs on a lead and a loose dog came running up I would be damn annoyed if the owner could not recall their dog. I have an Afghan who can be funny towards other dogs although I hasten to add has NEVER attacked one. I am careful (or so I thought) in that he is NEVER allowed off the lead unless on private ground with no other dogs around. However what control do I have if another loose dog goes for him and cannot be called back. I also have a terrier and know what persistent little ***** they can be, yet we all seem to condemned the dog who came off best. Yes I can pull him away but WHAT IF the terrier follows and continues the attack. All to often we condemn the supposed aggressor however in this case it was on the lead. Maybe like my afghan they were aware of a potential problem hence they kept it on the lead, why on earth should it be muzzled.

Having owned a GSD in the past I know all too well how people can immediately throw the blame as it is 'one of theose dogs' rather than admit to their own lack of control.

So c'mon guys if the GSD had been off the lead and the Airdale on the lead you would all be defending the responsible owner who had their dog on the lead. Lets face it if you had yourdog on a lead and was faced with an out of control dog off a lead whose foot would you lay the blame at. Unfortunately once again we see a beautiful breed being blamed because a smaller dog who could well of beenin the wrong (well the owner, not the dog) came worse off.

I do hope the airedale is ok however just got so annoyed that everyone was so quick to blame the GSD when if the Airdale was under total control the situation would probably never of happened.

Retreats now under the bunker :)

Lisa I can see what you are saying I used to get damned annoyed in the same circumstances, but Sable did say that the terrier stopped and the large dog approached, now either the owner allowed the dog to do it, or could not hold it back.
Believe me 9 stone of aggressive GSD pulling at the end of a leash is no fun and it was only good obedience that kept him with me, if he hadn't obeyed I would never have held him back, if I had dropped the lead I would have been in the same situation with a badly injured dog on my conscience. Like you I never considered a muzzle to be the answer I wanted a more permanent cure so we could both enjoy our walks and every time we made progress some loose dog, uncontrolled dog would, set us back, frustration did not come into it. Ingrid

Hi everyone,
i was in the park today walking three dogs,my two adult Samoyeds and my 16 week Mal pup.
As im walking along the foot path , a gentleman (and i use the word loosely) walking a springer spaniel off-lead approached from opposite.
His dog started to run towards us and i immedietly stopped and pulled my dogs in close.He shouted over without any attempt to recall the dog "Its O.K. he only wants to play."
Well don't you just love it when they say that!
I replied curtly " Well my girls don't like other dogs.They're insured,is yours?"
With that he promptly pulled out the lead and shouted "Jack".
I thought 'obviously not'!

Hello Lisa.

After reading your message I wanted to respond. Lets not forget the fact that the is a dog that has been attacked and is seriously ill. In response to your opinion if the owner was aware of the problem why did he continue to walk towards the dog if he was unable to pull it off the terrier. This attack went on for over 1 minute, that is a long time. If the dog just snapped and had a pop at the terrier then it may be different. This dog I quote from my friends was " viciously trying to kill it". Perhaps he should think of owning a Sheltie! I think people have had a change of heart because they might be able to imagine the torment my friends are currently going through and are offering their sympathy. I have read my posting and still it gives no information that the terrier followed the attack. I certainly would not become agressive if my dog did that. I would be very concerned and probably physically sick that I was unable to restrain my dog on a lead. Our community has to be aware of this dog coming around any corner and the risk it posesses. How do I know that even with my dog on a lead this dog is not going to overpower it's owner again and attack him. I think that if an owner of a dog that is aware of it's potential SHOULD have a muzzle on it. Perhaps everyone should muzzle their dogs when out in public to elliminate this or an even more serious situation occuring again. I'm sorry if this posting is a little broken but I am responding to little bits at a time. Please come out of your bunker and let me know what you think.

By the way, I have spoken to my friends and the terrier made it through the night, has been completely shaved and restitched back up. As long as he stays infection free the Vet is 80% hopeful of a good recovery. Fingers crossed!!
He will be in the Vets until the weekend if all goes well!! It's a good job he was insured, God knows how much all this would have cost! Any ideas!!?

Dogs will fight occasionally lets face it. There is obviously a lot we can do to reduce the chances of this happening but it occasionally will happen and the blame does not always lie with one party as it seems in this case.
Everyone is always so quick to point the finger. I am sure lessons have been learned from all concerned in this sad incident, why not leave it at that. Dog ownership must surley contain bad times as well as good.
If we want to stop it for good then all dogs must be muzzled and I for one do not want that to happen.
Ted

Sable I was in no way trying to point the blame at your friend and I did end my post in wishing that the airdale was ok.

However you did NOT state that this dog has been known to go for any other dogs, no history of attacks etc. So the impression your post gave was this was a one off. As you were not present and neither were we all we have to go on is hearsay and I felt (and I do understand why) that emotionally maybe you were taking a rather one sided view. If for example the attacking dog had a histry of going for other dogs and the owner had let a child walk this dog then of course I would be taking a different view despite the fact the dog was on a lead. As I also stated I have had a GSD and know what it is like when a 9 stone plus dog decides it wants off and it used to take all my strength to hold onto him, but I always held onto him. However I doubt what control I would have over any size dog on a lead if another dog came to him that was not under control, even what can initially be minor confrontation can escalate. I have a terrier and I have seen him picked up by his scruff, thrown about and what does my terrier do, run straight back in for more.

Yes I agree that if the Large dog had a histroy then it should of been not only on the lead but also muzzled, however if we take the view that if we have any doubt over our dogs they should automatically be muzzled then surely the same must apply for keeping dogs on leads that will not recall. Commons sense should apply at alltimes when out with your dog however as someone else posted maybe their are lessons to be learnt from both sides. If your friend wishes to take it further then she could of course either approach the owner of the other dog direct to see if a claim can be made on their insurance if they have any or go down the police route. However as already stated unless there were any witnesses and as the other dog was on a lead then I doubt they will get very far.

I do hope their dog recovers quickly nonetheless.

I'm EXTREMELY glad that the poor mite pulled through- your friend must be so relieved!!! I have no idea how much it would have cost but I suspect something along the lines of £500 or the best part of it! I have a cat which is not pedigree or anything therefore I didn't bother to even think of insurance! More the fool me as the cat was ran over last April and lucky for me (considering what could have happened) he dislocated his hip! The vets tried to put the hip back in place but after two days at home, he dislocated it again! Again back to the vets who put it back in place yet again and just my luck after 4 days it came back out of place! Back to the vets (at more expense) this time they operated and removed the ball joint in his hip and left it as eventually scar tissue would fuse it back together! This cost me a total of £460 and more considering he has to go to the vets every three months for a check up! And while we're there it costs more with worming and flea injections! It took 7 month before he could walk without a limp and even now after all this time if he's had a good night on the tiles he comes in with a bit of a limp again. So glad you're friend had her dog insured. I didn't bother with the cat as he's not pedigree or anything- much to my regret now as when it happened I realised that I would shift heaven and earth to try and save him- he's a pet and I love him to bits!

So glad for your friend though!

P.S; My cat is exactly the same as the one on the bacardi breezer advert- with a kinder face!

Thank goodness it seems everything turned out alright. I have only just found this topic so everything probably has been said but I have had this conversation with many people in the past and it seems the law states that a dog must be under proper control in a public place. In an argument between two dogs, one off lead and one on lead, the one on the lead would be deemed to be in the right, however it must be controlled by someone strong enough to hold it back! In this case the GSD owner was obviously not so he was probably in the wrong. This case apart, if a dog came running up to a dog on a lead, maybe with friendly intentions and the dog on the lead was anti social with other dogs and a fight ensued, the owner of the on lead dog would be entirely in the right. simply because the other dog was not under the complete control of its owner. It has to be said that not everyone wants to be bothered by other peoples dogs when out walking theirs, particularly if theirs is non friendly. They can take the appropriate action by keeping it on a lead but what on earth are they to do about other dogs that come running up, they can pull theirs away but what if the other dog keeps on coming?
And yes, Jessie, I have had "they only want to play" thing thrown at me. fortunately my dogs are very dog friendly but I often sympathise with other owners whose dogs are not. what on earth are they to do in a situation like that

Actually my dogs are extremely sociable to both dog and man, but i cannot abide the sensless "I'll keep my dog off-lead untill it gets bitten and then complain" attitude of some dog owners.

They think that because their dog is friendly so is everyone elses which can cause allsorts of trouble as we've heard.

If an owner makes an assumption about the temperment of my dogs with out any thought for mine or their own's safety, then I make a remark about them being unfriendly so hopfully they then will think twice.

what an aweful thing to happen!! what a bad owner to let his dog almost kill another.
What would have happened if a child had got in the way it's the owner that should get reprimanded. if I would have been a passer by I would have helped .

Pls keep us informed about the injured dog .
and I really hope this guy gets reported he is bad ambassador to the breed .

I wondered how long it would be before the child thing came in, please realise that although a dog does not like other dog it doesn't necessarily follow that it hates kids too. My boy will allow children to crawl all over him and enjoys it. Ingrid

Having read this thread and commented with interest thought I might just throw the follwing into the equation:_ Purely a hyperthetical scenario however food for thought.

Out you are walking your dog, it could be a westie, Sheltie, Lab, GSP, GSD, Rottie, Mastiff but whatever the breed you know they are not comfortable around other dogs therefore you choose to keep your dog on the lead. As always you meet other dogs on your walk however suddenly you come accross another dog who is loose (I will tackle the 'come accross issue later')

Knowing what your dogs reaction will be you shout at the owner to recall their dog, unfortunately their dog does not recall and before you know it your dog on lead has lunged at the other dog. Your try to pull your dog away however it has it jaws frimly gripped on the loose dog. How many of us could say they could still keep hold of their dog whilst trying to help the other dog become free.

Step aside from the breed issue - so lets say you have a lab and it attacked a yorkie, the yorkie came off worse, regardless a dog was hurt however perception in the general public would be it was a dog fight. Mention the fact the attacking dog whilst on a lead I hasten to add was a GSD, Rottie, Mastif etc and before you know it a witch hunt ensues by the local neighbourhood demanding the aggresive animal be pts. Just imagine for one minute if that was your dog. All of a sudden your family pet who regardless of breed or size is suddenly being named as an aggresive animal who should be pts. So all of a sudden, this dog you have owned since a pup, lived with and worked with, accepted their faults and behaved accordingly could now be taken from you by law and PTS.

So lets look at the initial meeting, let say the loose dog was in an open park, plenty of opportunity for the owner to see another dog coming in the opposite direction. Ok so maybe they met coming round the corner........then what if the local play group had decided to take a bunch of 2 yr olds for a walk, children came round the corner the dog did not recall and a child ran into it. The child was knocked over and before you know it the parents are calling for this aggresive animal to be pts.

No dog has the right to approach another dog or human unless the approachee feels comfortable. We and We alone are totally reponsible for our dogs actions whilst out in public and had a loose dog knocked over a child and injured it quite innocently then wouldn't be all be shouting but it should of either been off the lead all at least been called back to heel.

Whats to say it was your dog who attacked, he was on the lead and you tried to pull him off, your dog in this instance was a westie, god forbid it was a GSD, Rottie etc as automatically it would be guilty as charged.

Would you really be calling your dog a bad example of the breed or should it really be a bad example of the breed (or a bad example of the owner)
of the dog who did not recall.

God knows it is a terrible thing to see a dog fight , and when one dog is badly hurt it is devastating. However the poor terrier was loose and they are scallywags, with some of them having more courage than sense. so therefore the onus is on the owner to have the dog on a lead . We all know terriers we all know they are yappy and cause great annoyance to other dogs . but we accept that as thats the breed . An airdale is one of the largest and strongest terriers and are known to hold their own in any confrontation. So im sorry but he was loose . the fault lies squarely on the poor owner who made the mistake of trusting her dog off the lead. I dont wish to offend truly . and Iam deeply sorry for injured dog and owner . Iam just seeing it as it is .

Mari I take great exception to your comment 'We all know terriers we all know they are yappy and cause great annoyance to other dogs'. As someone who owns five of them I cannot accept that comment. Yes some of them are but not all of them. Are all Rotties dangerous because one attacks a person? No each dog is different and should be treated as such. None of my lot are yappy and only one of them would be deemed to 'cause an annoyance' to other dogs which is why when I spot one he goes on his lead. The only reason he could be deemed to be an annoynace is because he is extremely excitable not aggressive and I appreciate that hence put him on a lead when need be.
The breeds I mainly have had problems with have been Border Collies. Labradors, Golden Retrievers, Springers and GSD's. However I dont tar the whole breed with the same brush even if some of them have picked up and shaken my 13 week old puppies or bitten through the face of my Boxer or Terrier pup.

Bec im sorry you take exception to terriers being yappy and brave and taking on all and sundry . yours are probably an exception to the rule. In my experience and I do have experience having owned, a cairn terrier ,a staffy, and an Irish soft coated wheaten terrier . they were never done taking on the world. I would never, and I mean never take a chance of leaving them run loose. I know they would have measured up to any dog, big or small . As I said it is acceptable for a terrier to be foisty in fact it is expected of them, so I dont know why you are offended . It is not as if I am waging war on terriers.I happen to love them but I am just being honest as to their character.

Then my I respectfully suggest that you state in your experience when stating something like that as it just isnt true of all dogs and it certainly isnt true of all the terriers where I live including staffies who are all run loose without problems. In fact the 'traits' you describe, in my experience, are the exception rather than the rule.

well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it as I am entitled to mine .goodnight Bec

So do I Bec !! My dogs are sweet and well behaved, but if they are threatened they will react. They have never caused annoyance to ANY dogs - ever - though I think they have annoyed some other dog owners in the show ring!!
That does not mean they are aggressive in the first instance but will defend themselves if they are forced to, though if a friendly dog came up to them off the lead they would not mind at all - but I would.
My dogs are not yappy, they bark when someone arrives at the house, and I am glad they do, but they are quiet when told to be. It drives me crazy some nights, there is one dog down the valley that barks and barks some evenings, and it echoes around , sometimes keeps it up til the early hours - but my 5 who live in kennels, are quiet as mice and do not answer. If I can train my tribe to be quiet, why cant they train ONE dog to be quiet. It is not a terrier, but a labrador. I too am very sorry for the dog that got hurt, but if you have a dog off the lead in a public place, there is always a chance that this sort of incident will happen. I do hope he makes a full recovery, I expect the bill will be in excess of £200 if they had to "put him out" to deal with his injuries, I haven't a clue what vets charge to keep a dog in overnight, but it cant be cheap, and I expect there will be follow ups to pay for too, it could even run to £4-£500.

I agree Ingrid . my sister had a gs who hated other dogs with a passion so much so he could never go out without a muzzle on. reason for the hatred . he witnessed my son Neil get attacked by a kerry blue . and he was against all dogs after that .The same dog was an angel with children so much so that my sisters son went to sleep on his cushion next to dog every afternoon. So it is not true to say a dog that does not like other dogs doesent like children either

Totally agree Lisa. Once an owner unclips that lead, the dog is effectively not under its owners control. It should therefore be 100% under its owners vocal control i.e. recall. I know someone who lets their collie off all the time and immediately the owner sees another dog he shouts "down!" and the dog drops like a stone and stays down not moving until the other dog has passed. Equally, I see many people with their loose dogs vainly shouting "Fido..get back here" and the dog doing 40mph in the opposite direction, usually towards other dogs. Control is everything in this world we live in at the moment.

Just have to say 'I agree too Lisa'...*waving*;)
This isn't just because I have GS's (that have been attacked on lead by terriers amongst others) but because I believe (like Alie) that unless your own dog is 100% reliable off lead, ie recalls or downs on command, then your dog hasn't earnt the right to be off lead in a public place (IMHO);) I'm lucky in the fact that my own dogs are 'other dog' friendly and will listen to my 'leave it', I know that, my dogs know that, but how on earth do other dog owners know it...they don't unless they know me and yet the number of people who'll let there dogs come up to mine whilst minding our own business is infuriating....I'd no more let my off lead dogs run up to an on lead dog than fly to the moon!
I must admit I'm having trouble trying to imagine the 'man' in question standing there on the end of the lead for over a minute and not trying at least to stop his dog from fighting...I mean, what was he doing?, 'thinking of England'? :rolleyes:
As for the 'would I muzzle my dogs in public' debate....'Eee gads, not likely'!!

Just to add my experiences... because of my terriers dog to dog agression, he now only ever is lead walked or if we go to the park he is kept on the lead with a muzzle on because I don't think that my dog should go through the torment of other dogs bounding up to him (it's also very stressful for me). I believe am completely responsible for his behaviour. I am his owner and therefore have to take it very seriously that he doesn't like other dogs. If we are in the park and he has had a chance to walk on his lead and get used to another dog he is then given the opportunity to run free with his muzzle on. He hasn't shown any real agression for a year or so, however, I still never take the risk!

Sally well done . thats the way to do it . take no risks mari

I think i may have been the one to suggest a muzzle on the "GSd type" dog, and I may have come across wrong (wouldn't be the first time :D ) so here goes with an "explanation" :)

Obviously not knowing the dog or owner , but if as we imagine he loves his dog as much as the other owner loves her Airedale, and if he does know his dog may attack, then the muzzle is not just for the safety of the Airedale, it is for the safelty of the GSd type dog too, and that's really where i was coming from. Suppose this all goes to court, and suppose his dog has attacked before, it could i suppose be ordered to be pts. It could happen to any one of us - i hate the idea of muzzles, and agree that in an ideal world all owners should not bother dogs on leads and have perfect recalls. But very few do and that's a fact.

If my dog was known to be aggressive or "touchy" then I would try my vbest to "rehabilitate" it, but if that proved impossible, then i would use a muzzle for the saferty of my own dog as well as other dogs. The thought of my dog maybe ending up pts is my worse nightmare. I understand and agree with a lot of what has been said, and just wish it WAS an ideal world where we all have control.

My dogs owned in the past are pretty big and hairy and i have been a pariah when walking down the street when the stupid DDA hysteria was at its worst in the mid 80's and people thought theyu were dangerous, sometimes you can't win :(.

I find it weird that the man didn't pull his dog off - i minute is a hell of a long time, and it was'nt just a spat, his dog caused severe damage - it's very odd. Was he I wonder into fighting with his dog or something....ther is so much of it goes on underground and these dogs do still get walked I suppose.

I'm just putting my viewpoint, i am equally sad for both dogs, it is very distressing. i have no answers, but would in that position try to keep my own dog safe from the law if you see what i mean :)

Just for the record, I am against dogs wearing muzzles casually, especially those dreadful cloth ones where they can't pant or drink (saw a Samoyed being walked in one in Summer last year :( ) but do feel that in certain circumstances they may be necessary. Not because a dog is of a particular breed, but more dependent on the dog's character. And I mean too, not just a dog who may have a spat, but a dog who has no inhibition and may do damage.

JMO and no offence meant to anyone ;)

LIndsay

Hi Lyndsay :-)

I heard today from a client we visited about another GSD owner who deliberatly set his dog on a Standard Doxie....... So maybe it goes with the 'breed image'?? :-(

Hi there guys

This all makes good discussion doesn't it!!? I am VERY HAPPY to report that the terrier has come home to after a big turn around in his condition. He has had his drips removed this aft. and all being well should have his stitches removed early next week. After having a few days to calm down about the whole situation I have come to this conclusion:

There are two seperate issues here. The first being the 'off lead' issue, the second being an aggressive, dangerous dog.

I very much doubt that my friends will ever walk their dog off lead again, why? because of the fact there dog may bump into a similar incident in the future. Secondly because they will want to make sure that THEY are in COMPLETE control of him ALL the time. (in sight and out of harm's way). I doubt I will walk my Sheltie off lead in future. By the way since this incident, I have enrolled my Sheltie for obedience classes so that I can perfect his recall. I hope others do.

The second issue of the dangerous dog still has to be dealt with. My friends do not want the dog pts. But we still have this dog that has been proved to be aggressive etc. being walked by the same owner which I feel is still a potentially dangerous situation. I would like to here what people think about this second issue, and what kind of solution would be best achieved.

Thanks for ALL, (even Lisa who I got annoyed with at the start) the support and comment regarding this situation.

Thanks, Sable

Sable that has made my Monday and will phone husband to tell him the good news
I was really upset for the dog and owner .I must admitt the gsd and rottweilers and
doberman owners I know are great and the dogs are fine with folks and children .

I still maintain its the owners that need teaching, stop making a dog do what they
cannot .But this Dog and owner will do the same again unless the situation is addressed
I once had a white english bull terrier called nosher he was a real sweetie, big head big body a joy to own until !! the guy down the road let his airedale terrier TRY and fight nosher 3 times my husband pulled nosher away and the dog was really going to town on mine the last time nosher got stuck in and it was aweful in the end we had to lay on our dog and pull the airdale clear.What happened my husbnd chinned the owner
to applause from passers by Dog and owner ran away we was left with a dog that to that day would not let an ant or pigeons- pass him with out him wanting to fight them .
but he was still very good with the family and children . So we must not always blame the dog

Digger

My breed vis the GSD's and if you can imagine me I'm a 5ft 6inch female with a size 8/10 frame, I have no peircing's of any kind, nor do I have dyed hair or anything that people may associate with the 'breed image' - I am really quite a small young lady with two young children- working in accounts therefore I wear a suit to work (usually walk in one first thing too) and ours are family dogs!!!!!!

My friend works in a vets and she actually says 'there is no breed image/type'- it is just like the petplan insurance advert- bikers dressed in leather with fluffy bunnies and such like. However most people with snakes and spiders do have tattoos or piercings and most grannies have budgies, but with these being the only exception! For dogs the possibilities of what walks in after the owner she could not possibly guess as it could be anything!

SABLE
I am so glad again that your friends dog is doing well and if I were you I would take many of these posts with a pinch of salt as that is all they are adding 'salt' to the wound!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should have made myself clearer - when I referred to 'breed image' I meant the owners perception of the 'breed image'....

Ingrid the child could have been walking passed ? Have you never been in the street with two dogs have a tear up? I have not a nice experience,My dog's have always liked
children, but I would not be to happy to have any child walk passed a dog in full rage
fighting another .

In a word Patricia, no I have never had a flare up in the street, I won't allow my boy to fight and all we have ever got is a bark which soon stops. It was my whole point about whether a dog on a lead is really under control, if the owner is still going to be dragged into a fight while hanging onto it then obviously not. Ingrid

Ingrid thanks for your reply the only fight my dog had was with an un leaded airedale
I think it's outrageous to let your pet dog fight any animal. walks are for fun and
good times for the dog and family . But this is a crazy world we live in now .

My Zac is six months, I have not had a dog for five years, at six months he looks
older because of his size but still you get people giving him a wide berth and smaller dogs growling and barking at him but he really is a good dog he just loves the world
and I hope he stays that way .

Hi Patricia, sorry if I missed it but what breed is Zac ? Zen is a very large heavy boned Shepherd and I love it when we are in a crowded place, people just part and let us through, and then you get the kids that want to fuss the " big doggie" and this big soppy shepherd standing there lapping it all up while adults look on in horror. Ingrid

Hi again ingrid Zac is a Bouvier like a small bear with a big head but this bear is a real
sweetie pie and yes you can get passed a crowd quite fast.In my case Zac pulls so Husband will not allow me out on my own until I have full control [may take some time that] [lol].I love gsd but the very long coated ones they are so intelligent.

Hi Sable, really glad to hear your friends dog is on the mend and lets hope this does not change his nature too much. It does seem very strange as the others have said and I really hope the owner of the other dog was not purposelly trying to instigate their dog to fight. If you and your friend really feel strongly about the actions of the other dog then I wouldn't hesitate in going to the police even to see if they can just give a warning.

Anybody who encourages their dog to fight doesn't deserve to own one and should be put in the ring with Mike Tyson and see how they enjoy it. Even more regretful is if this was a GSD it's people like these who give the larger breeds a bad name.

On the bull terrier front (sorry can't remember who posted it) know exactly what you mean. My old Bull Terrier was the softest thing you could ever meet and so many people looked forward to meeting us in the park as they knew he would play for England with their dogs. His breeder warned me 'a Bull Terrier will never start a fight, but it will finish it' small as he was I was always aware of the potential, however I still remember to this day he would never approach a strange dog, he'd come back to heel and let the other dog approach him, if it wasn't one of his mates he'd look away and totally ignore it. On one occasion I have to admit the other dog tried to pick a fight with him and bless him poor Rupert just looked totally confused as if to say 'what do I do now mum' I'm not ashamed to say the attacking dog felt my foot inbetween itself and my dog and the air did turn rather blue (never knew working behind the bar in a Rugby club would give me a whole new diversification of the English langue :) Beleive me it got worse when the owner of the loose dog accused me of not having a 'Pitbull' muzzled in a public place. Fortunately for me and Rupert loads of his 4 legged tag mates and their owners were around to intervene. Have to admit one of the best breeds I have ever owned :)

I was itching to reply to this posting yestarday but I couldn't get on line, and although most things have been said now I just wanted to ask is the terrier insured? or would your friend be able to claim veterinary expenses from the owner of the GSD? I do hope all will be OK. An incident happened to me a year or so ago when I was out walking with a Great Dane that we had just taken in to foster care. We didn't know too much about his character then (after all that's what we were hoping to find out). He was a young entire dog. We were approaching a very elderly man with a Schipperke on an extension lead -not the electrical type :) The little dog started snapping and growling and throwing himself at the Dane. Well I'm no frail little woman - sadly:) but it was all I could do to control this huge dog that really didn't want a fight, but was finding it hard to keep the Schipp at bay. Now I don't for a minute tarr all Schipperke's with the same brush, but I must say I probably came over as less than lady like to the dog's owner who seemed to think it was all very amusing that his little dog was so brave! We were all lucky that day, it could have been a disaster - and if it had been ,guess which dog would almost certainly been named as the bad guy. Just goes to show that being on a lead is not always enough - being in control is the thing.