https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/events-and-activities/   something else for u to read :)

Might give u a taste for somethings to consider in the future

Didn't know whether you were going to train him up to be a security dog, whether you were working to participate in IPO trials which is what I mean by working the dog. Agility, competition obedience, scent work etc are all good too. Working line dogs do need more mental stimulation than pet/show lines

I don't like security dog as I want a friend or a good companion or pet how you like to say.I want to go with him at jogging running hiking holidays when bloody covid is finishing but I reckon never as far as I m aware. Obviously, I m aware now of the amount of exercise and strain on his joints but I want to ask about that.

Do you exercise your puppy 5' x age in months only in total? For ex : 5 months - 25 min, 12 months 60 min 18 months 90 min  24 months 120 min. Sounds strange but I want to ask you if this is reality?

I will wait and prepare for him and go for training and ask GSDs clubs from around my area if they can help me. Impossible not to find lovely people  who loves dogs and animals.

He might be our sanity escape from this perpetual nhs nightmare and  I m sure he will.

Maybe I can put him only towards all nhs managers from time to time

Thank you furriefriends. Looks amazing but I wish I can achieve such level.

Let's start with basics and first 2 years are crucial for us and him.

Yes I have a large breed and stick to this. I concentrate on obedience and positive socialisation. I don't know where you live but between where myself and FF live are a lot of training clubs which are mainly for GSD's but they allow other breeds. They train tracking, obedience and bite work. You don't have to do all of it though.
Mantrailing is a good sport to take up and a puppy can start on that.

Hampshire Basingstoke and Winchester

I would love him not to bite anybody so I don't want bite work. I am aware dogs are biting but if possible obedience socialising basics agility trailing and after will see how we get on me wife and dog.

What does it mean bite work I might be too novice for this and can't understand?

It's part of the working trials. A dog sport. You teach them to bite on command and release on command. Unless you are serious in that I wouldn't get into it. No dog should bite without your command. It's what champions in Germany have to achieve, working and show side to be crowned a champion.

Gatwick is probably too far but that is one I know of but they are working trials but you can do just tracking and obedience.
I think in your case do general obedience classes like the kennel club good citizens when they start up again. Agility is great when he is old enough. Mantrailing and scent workshops can be done at any age. Great to work the brain

I do know if you can travel there West End Dog Training has a very good reputation and know people who travel many miles to go there. Its Southampton way I think

Search and rescue is another area to look into .all in the future of course .so plenty to consider but as sj says start off with good basic obedience and the kennel.club awards .plenty of time in the future for other disciplines .

I trained a GSD to do working trials a number of years ago. You work through stages to qualify to the next level. You do not need to win just get enough points. Unless the classes have changed the lowest level has various obedience tests (control section), stay exercises, some agility done as single jumps, not a course as in agility competitions and search for articles. Higher classes also have tracking. When you qualify for the top level you have a choice of doing harder tracking tests (tracker dog class) or doing guarding type tests (patrol dog class). Both these classes are equal and can lead to your dog becoming a champion. It is not necessary to do the guarding work and I personally wouldn't with a pet dog

Many thanks for your help and info

Near me Southampton it is a Academy er

> Are there any places where I can rent it for a single dog only and avoid being with many dogs around?

Pups needs socialisation, and the more you do with them the better they will be as adults, don't avoid other dogs, seek out the busy spots and times so pup can meet as many other dogs as possible. Go to as many training classes as you can too, but make sure that they are reward based, positive classes, this is the only reliable way to train.

You could also look at nosework, tracking, dog parkour, etc.

Our parkour trainer has a GSD who is a bit nervous and reactive but parkour has helped him to be more confident. It’s quite easy, you just have to show you can do the exercises for each level.

I didn’t think my papillon would be much good at tracking - we did an introductory course just to keep my friend company (she has a dachshund who is a natural). But my boy loves it and he’s really good.

I just tried lots of different things to find something we both enjoyed, and as it happens we like everything. :)

Do you exercise your puppy 5' x age in months only in total? For ex : 5 months - 25 min, 12 months 60 min 18 months 90 min  24 months 120 min. Sounds strange but I want to ask you if this is reality?


There is a very good reason for the advice of restricting exercise to 5 minutes per month of life. Being a doctor I presume you will know about
epiphyseal plates & how over exercise can damage them in humans, this is the same in dogs.

Obviously in dogs the plates "close" much earlier than in humans, as this occurs just after puberty in both, and until has occurred prolonged exercise can & does cause damage to the bone being formed.

It is much more important to exercise the brain rather than the body in prepubscent dogs.

Yep you are treating dogs not me hence my question.

If you did not know in humans is not the same so growth plates close around age 16 in women and somewhere between ages 14 and 19 in men.

Is it only after 2 years a dog can walk more than 2 hours per day in total? I m asking as I don't know.

Thanks.Initially, I thought that a park dog is only for many dogs or a restricted number of dogs.

If you did not know in humans is not the same so growth plates close around age 16 in women and somewhere between ages 14 and 19 in men.


Like I wrote post puberty, the Epiphyseal plate closure is triggered by the surge in testosterone/oestrogen that occurs at the time, the timing is not set in stone in humans or animals.

Puberty occurs in dogs at a range of ages dependant mainly on the size of the dog so a Chihuahua's (for example)epiphyseal plates may be closed at under 12 months, whilst a GSD might be nearer 2 years, the only way to know is to do a full body Xray.

Way too many owners over exercise their juvenile dogs & end up with orthopedic problems that they then blame on poor breeding.

Yes it's called West end dog training academy and they do lots of things there. I have friends who in usual times attend and rave about it. They are used to large breeds there too.

Thank you Ann

Unbelievable how many owners are over exercises their GSD

Dan did you say you are near Southampton? If so, you should look at training with Pat Tagg: https://dogtaggs.co.uk 

She owns german shepherds herself and is very involved in going across to Germany to train them in their original role as herding/flock guardian dogs. She runs tracking training classes and also puppy training in conjunction with another trainer and she uses excellent training methods and is v knowledgeable. You can't go far wrong.

You've also got Natalie Light near you: https://www.natdogs.com Although she doesn't offer regular classes but more behavioural work if you run into any behavioural problems.

And in Southampton itself, you've got Steve Goodall: http://www.goodalldogtraining.com

Those would be my recommendations.

One final thing to say, is that the socialisation period is extra important for guarding breeds - including GSDs. Getting a puppy at 15wks, you are missing the entire socialisation period (which starts to close at 12wks) and you will be at the mercy of whatever socialisation the breeder exposes your pup to. If the breeder rarely takes the pup off their property, does not expose the pup to many new and friendly people in a positive way, doesn't expose the pup to strange dogs from outside the household, doesn't expose the pup to urban sights and sounds and traffic.... then there is a high risk that the puppy you purchase will be fearful and the main cause of reactivity and aggression in dogs, is fear. (You may not see the fearfulness when you first meet the pup - it often is latent until the end of the first year.)

I say this as a trainer who has many times witnessed people bringing over 15wk old pups - only to see them turn out to be reactive and fearful, usually towards people outside the family. The last time it happened, the people got in touch with me before they'd even brought their "Berger Picard" (french shepherd type dog) over. I warned them. They spoke to the breeder and reassured me the pup was getting socialised... fast forwards to the pup being brought over and of course it ended up being very spooky and reactive.

The dog before that, it was an Entlebucher Mountain Dog. Again, brought over at 15wks, again very spooky and reactive towards people. To the point where I had to advise the owners that a class was too stressful for their dog and not the right environment. They simply went to a less reputable community dog training organisation nearby and persisted in taking the dog despite the fact it reacted multiple times in every class and was clearly very stressed

I have in my classes at the moment, a 17wk old golden who was brought over at 15wks from France. She is completely fine. But goldens are very laid back as a breed, and tend not to be reactive towards people anyway and are probably a breed which can deal with less than perfect socialisation without too many bad effects.

Which is all to say, I would do everything I could to avoid importing a 15wk pup from Europe - *especially* if it were a guarding breed....research shows that the socialisation period closes even earlier for these breeds so it is even harder to expose them to the world in the right way, in time. The only exception would be if I really really trusted the breeder to go above and beyond with the socialisation - which means I know the breeder personally or I have visited their premises or there is loads of evidence of socialisation in a 1-2-1 way on social media.

The reality is that breeders are busy people, they have their own dogs to look after, they are exhausted after raising a litter and they are often keeping a pup for themselves or sometimes even keeping multiple pups on to go abroad at 15wks - which all has an impact on the 1-2-1 time and attention and exposure to new things, which your own puppy would receive. I definitely would not want to import a 15wk old GSD which has been kept kennelled most of its life.

Unbelievable how many owners are over exercises their GSD


I have no idea how many GSD owners over exercise their dogs, but when I hear on the TV, read advice on the Internet etc stating dogs such as GSDs, BCs etc need hours of physical exercise every day I cringe, juvenile dogs of any breed require age appropriate exercise, so that their bodies develop naturally, no dog has to have hours of physical exercise at any age as brain exercise is far more important is more important especially with juveniles.

Shepherding breeds like the GSD(which is NOT a flock guard/guardian breed BTW) wasdeveloped to act s a living fence keeping the stock to a designated area in the pasture fields & to move them from field to field/farm etc. The HGH(herding test in Germany) is used to assess the ability of dogs to carry out their original function. They work stock in a totally different way to sheep dogs.

GSDs are NOT flock guards nor a guard breed, they are a multipurpose dogs nowadays, but retain their shepherding instincts, even show line GSDs.

Flock guards have to be bonded to their stock in order to protect them, flock guards do not"work"the sheep

Working line GSDs have to have impeccable temperaments to be able to pass the VPG & IPO tests, if the breeder is successful in this field, they will be well aware of the importance of socialisation in a puppy's development.

BTW the Berger Picard is a herding dog NOT a flock guard, the French flock guard is Great Pyrenees

Also my friend's who breed Working line GSDs(VPG & HGH) have imported a good few puppies from Germany over the past 40 odd years, never had a problem since the Pet Travel scheme started with unsocial used puppies nor bad temperaments

Thanks

From 08 weeks to 15 weeks all has been arranged to pay for training and socialisation and my friends will oversee this together with breeder.

Fantastic answers really love these. Thanks very much all. I will take all in and check

Thank you a lot onetwothreefour

> Acme whistles are the best if you want to train to one

I bought an Acme 211 1/2 (black colour) and used a long line (30 ft) for my Whippet.   I had to be VERY careful when using the long line because is she tore off in the opposite direction, getting her stopped quickly might have broken her neck.  So actually I didn't use the ll for very long before letting somebody else have it.

I've never had to use a long line, and I've always had high prey dogs. I find that if you let them off lead from the very first day they can go out they just follow you, I build on that, always rewarding them for checking in, then I start to hide from them, this encourages them to watch me, rather than me watching them. I don't call them much at all, mostly I just leave them to do their own thing, sniffing around and playing with each other and I reward them for being near me and checking in of their own volition. The whole gang love to just hang around me, they have mad zoomies of course, but they always come back to Mum.

Even with my import who was older than my usual pups as he was 4 months before he could come home, we arrived home in the wee small hours, dumped him down in the garden to meet the gang, do a pee etc, had a few hours sleep - pup is just part of the family from this point forward, no separating. When we went out for a short walk later that day pup was off lead playing with his new friends.

Same here chaumsong. Mine are off lead from day dot as that way it is normal for them. When they are so tiny they aren’t confident to disappear on their own so it’s the best time to do it.

> When they are so tiny they aren’t confident to disappear

Absolutely, the ones who have problems are those who wait till pup is 7 or 8 months old, or even older, they want to wait till it has a 'perfect' recall, only the perfect recall disappears when pup has freedom for the first time at that age. Also everything is new for it, suddenly it can run up to other people and dogs, and by this point is bigger, heavier, more confident and a pain in the neck.

Baby puppies off lead from the start just get used to seeing other people and dogs walking past, they don't want to run up to them.

Dan if you are going to use long lines please only use them with a suitable harness, a Y shaped front one like Perfect Fit, if there is any pulling its not going to damage the pups neck.

Same here. Isla was off the lead in a field on the first day she was allowed to go for a walk at 12 weeks. She followed me everywhere and I encouraged this by walking backwards and encouraging her to keep with me. I did the hiding trick too as it teaches puppies to check in regularly to see you are still there. If she ran past me on a recall I dashed off away from her which made her run after me, if she zoomed past me, then I ran away again until she learned to come to me and stop.
I’ve done this with all my dogs from puppies

> many times witnessed people bringing over 15wk old pups - only to see them turn out to be reactive and fearful

You're so right 1234, I know a few of this type too, and it's a real shame because the owners have carefully chosen lines and breeders but not considered the all important early socialisation.

My imports breeder lives in The Hague, and she had the whole litter of pups out in a buggy from 6 weeks old, safely experiencing the city sights and sounds. By the time I picked him up at 4 months he had experienced so much, been to dog shows, the Amsterdam winner show, taken it all in his stride, he'd been on buses, trams and trains, been visiting lots of doggy friends, travelled to Germany for a show etc the result is he's completely bombproof, such a happy and relaxed boy

In fact I would seriously consider a harness for walking any way . Having experienced laryngeal paralysis which  an be cause by damage to the neck from collars i much prefer a harness.
The perfect fit is very good as they can help u get the right size and as it comes in 3 pieces u can buy  the bits separately as the dog grows
As for long lines totally agree they must be attached to a harness not a collar regardless of breed

>You're so right 1234, I know a few of this type too, and it's a real shame because the owners have carefully chosen lines and breeders but not considered the all important early socialisation.  My imports breeder lives in The Hague, and she had the whole litter of pups out in a buggy from 6 weeks old,

That breeder is worth gold! Yes, I don't really want them to do much actual 'training' (cos I'd like to start all that off) but just exposure to the world and everything going on, is super important. The problem being when the pup 'needs' training input (around the house, too excited or worried by other dogs etc) so the 'do no training' thing has its limitations. 

There used to be someone with a website who would take puppies from 8-15wks (no more than one pup at a time) to socialise them whilst they waited for the Pet Passport scheme. They were in France. But the website stopped working so I guess they stopped doing it. But it sounded ideal - I think that was when Europe allowed more travel between countries with young pups though. Perhaps there's not enough demand if it can only be for French-bred pups. But not all breeders are good 'trainers' and someone who just has one puppy at a time and is a trainer is kinda perfect for this.

Just throwing that out there in case anyone is reading this in Europe who's a dog trainer LOL!