Dill with info like your link available why are we so often hearing of such poor advice being given from vets during whelping????

I had an issue of a vet refusing to administer Oxytocin until 3 hours after a pup was born in a bitch who normally whelped quickly and a longer delay of two hours previously resulted in a dead puppy.

Unfortunately my own vet was out on call, and I had to contact another 'Group' surgery.

>She's had the oxytocin

Some of the best experts have given you advice.  Your poor, poor bitch

>if no pups in an hour I'm ringing the vet

Too late by far.
And you can x-ray with no problems at this stage of the pregnancy.  Not sure why a vet wouldn't know that.  Odd.

Dill with info like your link available why are we so often hearing of such poor advice being given from vets during whelping??

Boggles the mind doesn't it :-(

What's more,  it was the first entry on the first page of google search  "Canine labour green discharge"    anyone could find it  easily

As to why such poor advice  is being given,  there seems to be an epidemic of poor and ignorant advice and information being given  out by professionals in general and vets in particular.   Cast your mind back to 'that' programme,  and the ignorant pronouncements of Mark Evans.   

We seem to be living in a world where few people can be bothered  to educate themselves,  but  everyone is an expert :-(

Dill with info like your link available why are we so often hearing of such poor advice being given from vets during whelping??

Boggles the mind doesn't it :-(

What's more,  it was the first entry on the first page of google search  "Canine labour green discharge"    anyone could find it  easily

As to why such poor advice  is being given,  there seems to be an epidemic of poor and ignorant advice and information being given  out by professionals in general and vets in particular.   Cast your mind back to 'that' programme,  and the ignorant pronouncements of Mark Evans.   

We seem to be living in a world where few people can be bothered  to educate themselves,  but  everyone is an expert :-(

Dill with info like your link available why are we so often hearing of such poor advice being given from vets during whelping??

Boggles the mind doesn't it :-(

What's more,  it was the first entry on the first page of google search  "Canine labour green discharge"    anyone could find it  easily

As to why such poor advice  is being given,  there seems to be an epidemic of poor and ignorant advice and information being given  out by professionals in general and vets in particular.   Cast your mind back to 'that' programme,  and the ignorant pronouncements of Mark Evans.   

We seem to be living in a world where few people can be bothered  to educate themselves,  but  everyone is an expert :-(

Site's gone a bit nuts again

This topic was my first port of call on getting up. Please let us know how it's going..when you can. :)

Me too. Please update us when you can.

Surprised to say the least that any vet would dispense Oxytocin to you and give you the go ahead to administer this....results could be disastrous.

The even weirder thing here is that this vet apparently also breeds and is the OP's mentor, yet they don't seem to have the concern about green discharge that even I know is a bad sign before puppies!

About the oxytocin, I was given this to inject my bitch with out in Canada AFTER they'd examined her and decided she'd gone into inertia.  They sent me home as they felt she'd be more comfortable at home and I was confident in administering the shot.  HOWEVER I didn't.   I wasn't happy to do it, knowing the dangers, so after about an hour with nothing happening when she was clearly ready, I took her back where they did a C.Section.   9 super puppies although again I was not happy to go out back there, and see her still pretty much 'out', with her puppies crawling all over her.   Nobody watching.   Ye Gods.   Thankfully she proved to be a good mum and reared the puppies without any further crisis.

Any update on your bitch and the puppies?

OMG I'm glad I have never been involved personally with breeding. Even with all your experienced advice, the OP would rather go with a vet because he/she "breeds". There are breeders who mate a dog & bitch & then there are responsible experienced breeders like the ones on here & who have real experience of the highs & lows of breeding.

Poor bitch I hope she & her puppies are alright

Please update, chewing nails to the quick here.

Even with all your experienced advice, the OP would rather go with a vet because he/she "breeds".

Well to be fair, a vet with breeding experience is rare and would normally be something to be really happy with -the best of both worlds. It just so happens that in this example, the advice does sound off. But it isn't easy to NOT trust your own vet unless you have lots of experience, and if you go to your vet and say you have read this and that info on the internet or been told it on a forum, said vet may not be impressed -really depends on the vet and the trust between you. It's only this month the BVA has released that article about how many vets see their clients searching the net for answers as a problem so many vets may be on their guard for such comments even more than usual.

If things have not ended happily then I fear the OP may not come back as she may feel she will be judged for listening to the vet rather than experienced breeders. I hope she realises that we all were just so very worried for her bitch and the litter and we knew that this was not a normal but worrying way for a whelping to present.

Hope you have your hands full with puppies and looking after your bitch but if not please let us know when you feel up to it. If this has not ended well the fault lies with your vet and his terrible advice,

Ali

like button for your post bucksmum.

I do hope that there has been a happy ending here.
Breeding is a continual learning curve

I agree, no-one will judge the poster, but we would like to know.

Sorry I couldn't reply faster, first day back to school today so the rest of the family were looking after the dog but I can now say that she's in the middle of a c-section she was left in this morning but they are only doing it now??? I'll update about puppies as soon as I know, and someone was right about scared of being judged, I'm only 17 so I don't have full control over what I do with her, with the first two litters she was my great-aunties dog, we got the dog when she went into a care home but she must have been only a few weeks pregnant when we got her, my great-aunt knew the date of breeding so she's two days past her due date now. She's being spayed during the c-section. Thanks for all the concern!

Edit: My vet has mentored us on a few breedings, not just this one, we are not in breeding for the money, we are only getting started for two years or so but we do it for our love of dogs.

Fingers crossed for a good outcome -and you being just 17 and having taken the bitch on already pregnant makes a huge difference -you have found yourself in a difficult situation for sure, which wasn't your fault. Definitely a good decision to have her spayed at the same time.

Thankyou for the update.......hope you get her home safe later and puppies are all ok.

I guessed you were quite young and you have handled pretty much on your own.......well done you for coming here for advice. Don't be surprised if you have lost a puppy or two....just concentrate on the remaining litter and keep coming here for help if you need it.

One bit of advice though......see a different vet next time. I think your girl needed a c section yesterday and to give an Oxytocin injection to a 17 year old is unforgivable. (no personal attack on you ....but he should NEVER have left you to make that decision ).
I don't think she was ever going to labour on her own and he made completely the wrong decision in leaving her so long.

Good luck from now on,

Ali

Edit: My vet has mentored us on a few breedings, not just this one, we are not in breeding for the money, we are only getting started for two years or so but we do it for our love of dogs.

How many litters have you bred in 2 years ? just interested

I've got three bitches (we use stud dogs) and we've had one litter from two dogs and two litters from one dog, we've had that one for longer. We've had four in total, with no problems and very few deaths.

BIG NEWS EVERYONE!!

Two healthy puppies, third one was deformed and already dead. She only had three pups in total. She was an older dog so that's probably the cause of the deformed pup / small litter.

Great, she will be able to enjoy the two pups, won't be too hard on her, and they will have the benefit of not being singletons.

As said all through the thread we expected at least one dead pup due to the green discharge, just as well it was the deformed one too. :)

Good outcome in the end.

What I would advise is being very watchful for any signs of mastitis, and for the next few days at least do not leave her unattended with the pups for even a moments she may be disorientated and very likely to be clumsy.

Also with anaesthetic in their system you may need to encourage pups to feed from Mum by waking them and plugging them on frequently, as the milk let down may also be slow, and it is al about demand followed by supply.

Within a few days you will need to trim hooks from puppy nails, so they don't scratch with her having the incision.

Congratulations....hope they thrive and your bitch recovers ok.

Keep coming back for help if you need it and good luck with your little family,

Ali

Phew, that's a relief to read!! Hope all goes smoothly from now on, you deserve it!

Thanks everyone, we're all very relieved! Two little girls, apparently the deformed one had no head! D:
Both mum and pups are doing well, I bottle fed them to get them going as they were having problem staying on the teat but they're both good now. At first mum didn't want to sit with them, she wanted to go outside and sit on the grass and then didn't want to get into the bed and instead sat beside it but she finally got in and started to lick the puppies and tried to chew on one of the cords as it was quite long but she's stopped now.
We're happy because honestly we thought the entire litter was gone! Mum is on antibiotics because the vet said the deformed pup looked a bit dodgy and he didn't want to risk infection but otherwise all is good! (No more pups as mum is now spayed!)

> Hope all goes smoothly from now on

Yes, I second that

Have just found this thread and want to wish NiamhMcA  well. You came to the right forum for the very best advice and expertise. You have shown  courage and wisdom beyond your years. One poster asked/challenged you on litters bred. The question,  'out of interest' (?) , was irrelevant to the thread and I am pleased you were not discouraged by it.
We all have to start somewhere and I wish you the very best with this litter and am confident that you have learned 
much from it.

Good luck with your babies!

Hi just looking for anyone who may have had similar experience.
I have breed before with no complications with 2 dogs of the same breed. First litter for this bitch.
She has been clingy and panting on and off from Friday until 8pm.last night when she took herself off to her whelping box and has only been out twice today once at 7am (she didn't do anything pondered around for five minutes then came back in.) Then she just came to me to let her out went with her (she had a wee she did squat a couple of times a few lime she was going to do the other but nothing then she just ran back in she back in her box now.)
Shes had a clear odorless jelly like discharge since wednesday/Thursday which has now stopped.
Puppies have been very active until today gone quiter still feel the odd movement.
She was sick around 3pm yesterday tiny but of yellow bile.
She had and episode at half 7ish where she was shivering and low whine just before she took herself to her box.
Shes not eaten since late Saturday night (she had water and vanilla ice cream.)
She been digging in her bed during the night not so much during the day.
I know 1 stage can take anything g from 6-24 hours.
None of my bitches have been sick before. They usually just secluded themselves, dig and go off there food the day before.
My question is when should I count the 24 hours from
Her being sick.
Or her first shivering episode as I know that's a sign of contractions.
Shes 63 days today.
Sorry for the long post just thought I'd give as much information ation as possible

Just incase anyone post. She's fine she's started at 17:30 currently on 3 2 boys 1 girl

Well done to you and her!   Just don't let her struggle for much over 1 hour, each delivery, without seeing a puppy delivered.  There's no point letting her become exhausted, and then need a C.Section.   Sounds as if all will be well however.