Hey I'm new to this bit I thought some of the forums were very helpful and decided to ask my own question.

My dog is due and on Sunday night her temp went from the usual 37.5 up to 38.0 and on Monday morning it was 37.7 and it dropped to 36.9 at 8.30pm. I checked it again at 9.30pm and it was 37.3 so even though it was a bit higher it was still lower than usual. This morning it was 37.0 and at 3.30pm today it was 37.1. (It is now 3.50).
She has been off her food, not even accepting her favourite milk and treats. Her puppies were extremely active last night and her belly was hardening and softening.
She's been to the vets throughout her pregnancy and the puppies are healthy.

When should I expect puppies? Anything else to look out for?

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Personally I have never found temperature taking reliable. I end up doing it every time out of curiosity but it's never been any help to me -yet others swear by it. For many bitches going off their food is a reliable sign that things will start in the next 24-48 hrs, yet others will eat right to the end. The obvious signs to look out for are panting, nesting and shredding newspaper in the whelping box, pacing etc -this can go on for 24 to 36 hrs before pups are born but with others it may only be an hour or so. Some bitches will throw up and quite often they will have diarrhoea.

Personally I have never found temperature taking reliable.

I might have written this because me too don't set much score by temperature taking.   Far better to count from the first mating, given that conception may not have taken place immediately, and wait.   I didn't let mine go over by more than 2 days, and of course, if something was 'off' they saw my vet.   Bassets tend not to 'go off their food' much as with the increased size of the puppies inside, I usually had to give smaller meals more often, and reduce the 'bulk'.  The rest from Goldmali I totally agree with (nesting).

ps    She shouldn't need milk!

Thanks, just this morning she's had a green discharge. The vets isn't open right now but I'll bring her in as soon as they're open. What is this?

There is a greenness to the afterbirth, are you sure she hasnt had a pup? If not, I would say she is/has started, as mine havent had this before whelping. Watch her, is she straining?

We have never taken temperatures either.

Definitely no puppies, she keeps wanting to go lie in the shed to have her puppies but I want her in the house. But I'm positive that there's no puppies there as she was on the lead when outside. No straining either, just a lot of panting, get up and lying down again.

As you are new to breeding,  isn't your bitch's breeder mentoring you?  I would have thought this is just the time they would be involved.

And what about the stud dog owner?  they usually like to keep in touch too and should be experienced in whelping.

A green discharge before a puppy is born tends to be very bad news. I would treat it as an emergency and phone the vet immediately and expect to take my bitch in for a caesarean.

I would second this very strongly. It is usually caused by a placenta detaching and although seen after each puppy is born should never be seen before the first puppy has been  born,

Hope all is ok

Ali

I would also second the previous posts & get her to a vet straight away. There does seem to be something not at all right.

Keep us updated & good luck

Just back from the vet, he checked and there's no blockage but he thinks she's at least partily dilated because of the green discharge and he said that the green discharge was normal, nothing to worry about, which even though I thought was strange I guess he's the expert. My vet is my mentor, he breeds golden retrievers. I have an injection of oxytocin to give her at 7pm if nothing happens but he said I can ring anytime.
She's now breathing quite heavily, sleeping a lot and licking her self a lot.

It was good for your peace of mind to get it all checked out. I have to say that the green before whelping is unusual & has never occured in any of my experiences.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop....it sounds like you will have a restless night.

Glad you got to see a vet. I have never had a vet,other breeder or myself be happy with a green discharge before any puppy has been born especially as some time has passed but it must be hard to know who to listen to other breeders or the vet especially when you're so worried yourself.....really hope he is right.

I have never used Oxytocin myself but have heard it should never be given before the first pup has been born in case the bitch is not fully dilated. I have heard of vets injecting bitches with Oxytocin when they were not fully dilated with awful results....sorry, I really am not wanting to scare you but may be worth quizzing him on this or maybe a second opinion?

Hope all is going well and she has progressed naturally already,

Ali

I hate to question the judgement of a vet, but I would say that green discharge before the birth of a puppy is a matter for concern rather than a normal occurrence. And I would also worry about administering Oxytocin unless I actually knew that the bitch was fully dilated. JMHO ....

I share the same worries about the oxytocin, I've read some horror stories about ruptured uteruses! I'm meant to give it to her in two hours but I'd like to delay it as long as possible. Any tips on speeding up labour? We've tried the car journey (on the way to and from the vet), walking her around outside but still nothing.
She also tried to defecate earlier but couldn't, anyone else every had that problem with their dog?

She also tried to defecate earlier but couldn't, anyone else every had that problem with their dog?

Are you sure she wasn't actually pushing to try to birth a pup? Bitches often don't know the difference first time around and may ask to go out. It does sound worrying with the green discharge, I have definitely never seen it until the first pup has been born.

Could you ring another vet for an opinion....the only thing I use is homeopathic Caullophylum which really helps bring on and strengthen contractions but that is not a lot of help to you right now.

How long since the green discharge started? Is it dark green? What is the bitch doing? If she was mine and had a green discharge I think I would ask for an x ay to check puppies positions. Trying to defecate is common when they are trying to push....they often feel like they are going to poo. Not sure what to say about the vet leaving her with this colour discharge but I would call again. Vets often have a lot of experience of emergency c sections but many have never even witnessed a live whelping.

Ali

This is her third litter so she should know what to do, she's been a good mum to both litters.

I first noticed at 8.30am this morning, my dad checked on her at 4am and she didn't have it. She's pretty relaxed right now, lying down but keeps repositioning herself and licking herself frequently. She doesn't appear to be in pain and yes, dark green, I thought it was black at first until I put the lights on. He said that he doesn't think it's necessary to expose her and the pups to radiation.
The only other vet in the area is on holiday so this is the only vet available, he is a very good vet though, he's very knowledgable and I trust him with my animals completely, he's really helped some of my cats in the past, even saved one of their lives.

>I guess he's the expert.

Actually no, most vets are far from expert regarding whelping.

A dark green discharge is the stain from the placental sites and signals detachment of placenta, if not born quickly then a puppy whose placenta has detached will die.

A clear to opaque mucoid discharge is normal though.

>He said that he doesn't think it's necessary to expose her and the pups to radiation.

Personally, with a blackish/green discharge, I'd prefer risking a dose of radiation than risking the pups and the bitch.

Better safe than sorry in this case.

If she has had a green discharge since this morning I really have to disagree with this vet......so hope I am wrong but this is just not normal.

I have only whelped 12 litters myself which is not many compared to some but have never seen this and the only time have heard of it was a Brainless says when a placenta has detached.

I would not be worrying about radiation exposure at this time....I would be more worried about losing my bitch,the litter or both.

So sorry to sound harsh and I know you must be very worried but could you call another vet practice and ask their opinion as this is not sounding like it should be left much longer

Ali

I am about to use to oxytocin to see if it has any effect, should I use it or wait a bit longer?

He told me that it happened last week as well, someone came in with their dog with a green discharge that had been going on for a while, she had them that night and they were all fine.

Don't use oxytocin unless you are 100% certain that her cervix is fully dilated.

How would you make sure?

Sometimes her stomach goes very hard and the puppies almost stick out of it, you could almost grab hold of one. Are these contractions? She's not straining but she's panting. Would this mean she is fully dilated?

Hardening of the stomach is often the only signs of contractions I get with mine so yes,could very well be contractions. I haven't read back through but I think you said earlier today her stomach was hardening so it sounds suspiciously like inertia. No,I would not say panting means she is fully dilated at all, I have had bitches pant for 12 hours or more during first stage labour.....I think if I were you and that particular vet has advised me to self administer Oxytocin when the first pup had not been born I would be asking a different vet for their opinion.

> This is her third litter so she should know what to do, she's been a good mum to both litters.

So I take it you werent involved with her previous 2 litters?

There certainly should have been something by now, if this green appeared this morning. I still think there is something more to this!

I have had green discharge twice before puppies and neither time with a happy ending I'm afraid. The first had the discharge then passed a mummified puppy shortly later. The second had the discharge, I went straight to my vet who said he thought it was possibly there as there was a placenta close to the cervix so being disturbed as the cervix was opening, he sent us home to watch and wait, but to come back that afternoon if no progression. My gut feeling was it wasn't right, nothing much happened and I went back and insisted on a caesarean which produced only dead pups.
I don't wish to sound negative but can only say about my experiences. I would really have expected to see something by now. I would definitely be on my way back to the vet.

Without doing an internal examination, you'd only be sure she was fully dilated if she'd already passed a puppy.

Are the puppies still active?

Yeah, still active, I can still feel them moving.

After the mummified puppies were the rest dead or were they all delivered?

Oxytocin should only be administered once the cervix is fully dilated, as before this it can cause uterine rupture (and possibly cause death) and this can be very hard to check as the cervix is so high up and at an angle and impossible to visualise or feel in anything but smallest of bitches.

The only time I have had to have  C sections in my own bitches was for their third and final litters (first two litters no problems).  With the first it was Inertia, and the second nothing was happening after first puppy was born and Oxytocin failed to move things on.

So not only is easy past whelping behaviour not a guarantee of future problem free whelping, but the more litters a bitch has had the more stretched her uterus may be, and a large litter may mean she is unable to contract effectively.

I only have a small breed and she only had one mummified puppy and after that lots of green muck

What day is your bitch on? What days did she have the previous litters?

Yes, I was going to ask when is her due date or how many days from mating?

Also was she progesterone tested as bitches reliably whelp 62 +/- a day after ovulation (not mating).  Though some tiny breeds may whelp early

She gave birth on the due date with her first two litters, 9 pups in first litter but 1st pup was still born. 6 pups in 2nd litter, 1st stillborn again and a runt died at 5 days old because he had a cleft palate. The vet said the stillborns were not related but I'm still not expecting much for this 1st puppy. With this litter she was due yesterday.

Does sound like her labours are slow hence the first pups not getting out alive (placental detachment), so might be the same or worse this time.

If she is overdue, by progesterone testing, by more than a day and with the discharge I'd be looking at the need for a Section.

I think you need to get to a vet, in all the litters I have had I have never had a green discharge until after the first pup was born. As for the Oxy I would be very very dubious about giving it.
There must be a vet somewhere you can call.

I too would be back at the vets by now

She's had the oxytocin, if no pups in an hour I'm ringing the vet.

I'm sorry but I have to agree with the others.  Have had black/dark green discharge twice and both times ended in c section, first time with the loss of the whole litter as I waited too long (vet told me it was normal, I now know otherwise), 2nd time loss of 2 puppies as I insisted on c section the second I saw it.

She was just sick there now, just grass and water because that's all she's eaten today. Sign of puppies coming?

Take your poor bitch to the vet - I would not be at all happy with how things are progressing :(

I feel so worried for this poor bitch :(

Hope you're up to your elbows with puppies.  Please update as soon as you can.

In case you're having difficulty understanding why you should take your bitch to the vet,  here's some information for you

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/reproductive/c_dg_dystocia?page=show

That's a useful link.
I have to say that I am very worried about this poor bitch and her puppies ...

I personally don't think her being sick is a sign of the puppies coming.....I think it is from pain where she has had the Oxytocin and is contracting maybe without being fully dilated.It can also make them agitated as well and she needs to be seen by a professional now.

If it were me I would not even bother with the vet you have been dealing with as I think he has caused this bitch to suffer with his advice.... Hopefully when you call you will speak to a different vet on call who may see sense but she needs to be seen asap.