I am planning who to mate my bitch to next and it has been suggested I use her mums brother. Her uncle. I am not sure as it seems a bit close to me. Just wondered what other people thought?

Is it a full or half brother ?
Aileen

her full litter brother. He is a lovely dog but I am not sure about going that close.

No I would not. It would be like putting a bitch back to her Father.
I assume the KC would not register anyway as it is far to close and they have clamped down on close mating but I am unsure of which ones exactly.
Aileen

no probelm for an uncle to niece mating.

Just did a theoretical one for one of mine using KC mate select that has a low COI to start with would be 13%, where  theoretically it would be 12.5% with no background inbreeding..

> I assume the KC would not register anyway

only parent to offspring and full siblings are not allowed registration.

If it is your bitches characteristics you wish to build on and keep, and her uncle has these same strengths then it would be a good mating, but needs a lot of knowledge of common ancestors especially health and temperment and what they produced in this regard.

You would also need to think of an unrelated dog with the traits you want for the next generation.

I had forgotten about the KC mate select. Duh. It would give a coi of 19%. How high is too high?

That's the exact same mating I will be doing in about 2 years time. Bitch is outcrossed to an import so it will be perfect. I'm doing it to fix the original looks and it is recommended by my mentor as well (this particular mating).

It would give a coi of 19%. How high is too high?

Depends entirely on what is in the line. My foundation bitch is 19.7 % and I've never had a better dog in my life, in every possible aspect.  A dog from a line with problems in could be too high at 10 %.

They are very healthy and with good temperaments so maybe it is not such a bad idea as I had thought. he is a lovely dog. He has some puppys who should be in the ring soon so I will look at those and see how they turn out.

> If it is your bitches characteristics you wish to build on and keep, and her uncle has these same strengths then it would be a good mating, but needs a lot of knowledge of common ancestors especially health and temperment and what they produced in this regard.

yes, he has the same excellent temperament and the looks I want. If he wasn't her uncle I would use him no question. I was just a bit worried about the closeness.

Following on from this thread, would love some opinions.
I'm look at a dog whose sire is a littermate to my bitch's sire.  Would this be considered too close?

That is full uncle so if there is no other line breeding, inbreeding it might just be OK, (it's as close as half brother sister) especially if that side of the family has the traits you are wanting to fix into the offspring, but it will lessen your options in the next generation. 

Are there dogs you like totally unrelated to your bitch to go out to?

It is even more important that this dog and your bitch do not have the same faults, as these too will become fixed, just the same as the positive traits your aiming for.

I would only come in this close if my bitch were the result of a total outcross and I was trying to ensure I didn't loose the traits of the common line.

Thanks, Brainless.
My bitch is line bred on her dam's sire (not so closely) and not to any dog's on the sire's side.

It's an uncle mating.... You would need a lot of background information on the lines before even thinking about it. I second the advice from Brainless. If you don't know what you are doubling up on, don't do it.

Thanks - what do you mean by background information?

Health test results for the dogs and close relatives, what faults they have produced, especially temperametn/behaviour, fertility etc.

Thanks Brainless, yes, I've obviously done all that for all the studs I've been looking at and in this particular case also know a lot of the dogs personally.

TBH, I'm wary of it, inspite of all the pluses, but it was suggested and after reading this thread thought I'd ask.  The KC gave the mating a COI of 14 which was less than I had thought it would be.

Are there any imports in the line? Sadly the new KC system ignores them and can give a skewed COI result.

Further to Brainless's answer, look particularly at dogs who have similar ancestor repeats, i.e. same double ups.

Thanks Ms Temeraire.  No, no imports.

> The KC gave the mating a COI of 14 which was less than I had thought it would be.

Over how many generations though...you have to look in the box on the right to see, as the findings can be over a different amount of generations.
I personally dont rate the KC mate select at the moment, as every time I work my dogs out they are all over different generations. Luckily we have a breed archive that has just started a coi & that includes foreign dogs too..much more acurate.

I agree, I just did one for my friends pending litter and it came to a COI of 0.7% (the boy is an import) but the box on right tells you it's based on 19 generations but only the first four are complete.

The import has common ancestors beyond 4 generations to the bitches grandfather and going much further back the dogs are connected.

Due to a small gene pool we import about every other generation these days and the mate select gives an artificially low COI for many matings and also for the breed as they say it is 4.1% but that was just based on one years registrations that was just 31 puppies, around 5 litters.

A half brother sister, full uncle/aunt or Grandparent mating will give at least 12.5% and personally I would not go above that for any mating.  My closest mating is my Inka half sibling mating that came to 13.7% based on 16 generations, but only the first five are complete.  This now means any mating I am planning with a fairly unrelated UK stud is going to be over about 7% (probably more if taken further back).

I went abroad for her first litter and this gave a COI for the pups of 0.5%, based on 17 generations, but only 4 complete.

I know that there are common ancestors due to exports from UK to USA (some the same UK lines behind stud and my bitches, if you go back say 10 generations), also many of the Scandinavian imports to UK and exports to USA will have common ancestry.  The second World War caused bottlenecks in many breeds.

Inka's mother Lexi supposedly has a COI of 0%, but I know there are common ancestors behind both parents, the mate select shows the calculation as based on 15 generations with only the first 4 generations complete (imported sire).

If they at least showed the pedigree, with common ancestors highlighted you could see what they based the calculation on, but they want their cake and eat it, and don't want to show you the pedigree which they could get you to pay for instead.

It says over 16 generations, 8 complete.