Ok This is to LuvMyDog ... only just had a look at your website. I see you sell prong collars. Now I understand where you're coming from sadly. I do not see the need for prong collars, why anyone use a prong collar I cannot imagine. Training is what I believe in ... I most definitely will not go further on this one, I just feel that as you are obviously a relative newcomer to Champdogs Forum that people looking at your comments directed at me should be quite clearly aware that you sell prong collars.

Amongst other things, yes, we sell prong collars.  We also see a lot of misinformation, random emotive rantings, poor advice, and some quite bigoted backlash from that too.  I notice it's already started in the thread, next we'll be eating babies and causing the earth to crash into the sun..... It'd be so refreshing to come onto a forum and actually discuss some of the issues, but it'll turn into "you don't love dogs", "you're evil", "your customers are going to hell", without me ever promoting or recommending a prong collar to a single member.  I often wonder if being a dog lover means losing the ability for reasoned or rational debate, let's see shall we?

regards,

Austin

Why not explain to everyone that the owner of the lab had 4 small children and had, by her own admission, only attended one training class with him when he was a small puppy, and hadn't had the time to go again, or do any other formal training? She also said she wasn't interested in training, just wanted a tool that would make him stop by whatever means. That she also refused offers of free assistance from qualified trainers, because it meant being shown up as not wanting to put in any effort?

A typical dog owner then?

This is clearly then why this post was brought up several months after the original posting! Agree with Mastifflover.

Not quite, it's taken several months to be notified we've been named directly on a forum and in a negative manner. I'm here to address any issues anyone might have against us rationally and sensibly.  If a topic is going to be discussed surely it's a benefit to have balanced informaton?

regards,

Austin

How on earth is a head-collar an  AVERSIVE???????

A headcollar applies pressure if the dog pulls which is removed when the dog stops pulling.  It's a physical means to correct a behavior, hence aversive.  Strangely enough, that's what some people object to in a prong collars design. The real shame is few of those people put the 2 and 2 together and realise they're using a piece of equipment that works on the same principal another piece of equipment does, yet one is happy smiley time, the other is abhorent abuse. You have to love the internet for bringing out holier than thou armchair experts.

My dog sees his halti as 'walk time' it does not hurt him, frighten him or stop him doing anything - the fact he is wearing it does not stop him pulling, sorry for being dim, but what else other than fear pain & deterrant is there to the term 'aversive'???
That's the same with the majority of equipment, the dog associates it with an enjoyable experience and gets excited.  However, there are many documented instances of dogs becoming agitated and fearful when they see the halti come out. If your dog reacts that way it doesn't follow that ALL dogs react that way. Not all equipment is suitable to every dog. That's why we like to debate these issues, a common mistake is "it worked for my dog, therefore every dog should use one", I disagree entirely.  BTW, if you're using a headcollar for control of a big dog and it doesn't stop him pulling..........

The halti is great as a training aid and has helped me teach things.
You're one of very few then, the head halter isn't an effective training tool by any stretch of the imagination.  If it worked for your dog there's every chance alternatives would work equally well.  What else have you tried or considered? There's bound to be something potentially less harmful, I promise.

Inapropriate use of ANYTHING can cause a problem, but people using things wrongly should never be a reason to stop the production of the thing  they are mis-using. I have seen many people mis-use a collar & lead,  especially people with small dogs who will lift them off the floor - should there be a campaign to ban collars & leads - NO there should be education so people know how to use training aids properly.
You know, I actually agree whole heartedly with you on this. It's a pity the next few pages of posts are going to be little more than judgements and assumptions, nasty remarks and personal attacks, spiteful renditions of some nonesence that's been read on another website stated now as "facts" against what is essentially a functional and gentle piece of equipment such as a prong collar. Yet with that in mind will bypass any attempt to learn or understand and go straight to "they're evil and should be banned".  Then go and pull their dogs face about on a headcollar..... ;)

Oh my gosh, the penny drops. Yet another poster that is trying to make out some things are bad in order to sell thier own wares   I feel I've wasted my time even bothering to aske them a question now!
Ok, think about this really really carefully.  Take this sentiment and apply it to any dog trainer you care to mention.  The difference is, I'm completely indifferent to whether you ever buy a prong collar from me or not. There you go, in writing and clearly stated.  What I would like to do is get people to realise there is a variety of equipment to choose from. Some good, some bad, some more suited to situations than others. None is a miracle cure, none has 100% effectiveness, and every single one should be understood so the handler has an informed choice.

I object to seeing the sentiment "every dog should have a headcollar, prong collars are evil". My view is no dog should have a headcollar, and a lot of dogs don't need a prong collar, and the most effective solution is suitable training.  So, should I be exclused from ever taking part in a debate because I manage a business selling dog wares and don't share someone elses exact views?

regards,

Austin

As previously requested, via message, please change your username.
Thanks,
Jeff.