Excellent! Let's hope that if you and others act so responsibly by keeping the dogs on lead to be extra safe, she will be able to keep her hubby under control too!!

> She apologised for her husbands behaviour......

That's good.
It must feel better knwoing things are settled now :)

I am pleased the wife had the decency to apologise for her abusive husband. I suppose we should feel sorry for her, imagine being married to him.

I am pleased the wife had the decency to apologise for her abusive husband. I suppose we should feel sorry for her, imagine being married to him.

I did think that too!  LOL

The walk I was on was a reccie for a walking group. I have tried to change the route  to avoid this mans land but i have decided it is not practical. I would never,  nor would any of my group, break any laws or regulations, all are most considerate of any signs we may see, not always liking them, but we still adhere to them. We are entitled to use these footpaths. If he does not want land with a public right of way across it that is his fault not mine and I will not be denied the right to enjoy my beautiful country. It will be interesting to see if he gobs off again.. There are some big guys joining me ;-)

I really can't believe the nasty comments that BarkingMad has had in response to her post. Why are some of you so quick & keen to criticise everything said on here? She has a right to walk her dogs off lead, under  control on a public footpath. We are told that the dog is not nervous but spooked through being shouted at aggressively. Who are you to question that? It is good that the farmer's wife apologised & explained and your reaction, Barkingmad, will have helped to ease the situation. Just be careful because these irate morons who own a small pocket of land think they have the right to bully everyone. Good luck & enjoy your walks.

>She has a right to walk her dogs off lead, under  control on a public footpath.

Certainly she has a right to walk on a public footpath with her dogs, as do we all, but a landowner has the right to insist on dogs being on a short (4') lead where the footpath crosses his land.

The only real problem in this instance was the bad behaviour of the landowner; if he'd politely asked her to keep the dogs on a lead then there would have been no issue.

>She apologised for her husbands behaviour and that they had received some complaints about him over the last few weeks.  After we talked she asked me if I would keep my dogs on a lead to limit the amount of dog poo that may get accidently missed by me if they were off the lead.

BarkingMad16  I wonder how the complaints were made/received.  I would still mention it to your Parish Council, perhaps not as a complaint, if you feel satisfied with the apology, but maybe more as a 'heads up'.  You could just drop a line to your Parish Clerk or a named Councillor if one of them looks after footpaths.  That role falls to me in our PC and I'd be keen to know if there were were issues such as those you've mentioned.  Does your village/town have a website you could look at for contact details?   They might be willing to talk to him about improved signage which may help

An informal call to your local council is also a good idea - just to reconfirm what your options are, should it happen again.  Incidentally I was talking to our local footpaths enforcement honcho the other day and he said that dairy and cattle farmers are currently talking a lot about Neospora.  If your landowner's big problem is with poo, he may have some anxiety about the health of his horses should poo not be picked up.  It isn't an issue for horses as I understand it but it might explain his extreme reaction.

** I'm not sure I've linked to the best article but you get the general idea :)

Well just get the others to put their dogs on lead too just so the owner has no excuse to complain, and I hope you have a great walk!

Well just get the others to put their dogs on lead too just so the owner has no excuse to complain, and I hope you have a great walk!
Quote selected text


We will have to wait and see on that one, I can only suggest it to others, as said before the landowner has had a go at someone with his dog on a lead!! A local lady rang me last night as she heard about sundays episode, she lives opposite the field.  He is doing it on a daily basis to walkers.  Last week a family walked there and he went 'mental' - they didnt have a dog!!

One does wonder if this landowner has some sort of problem may be a mental illness, drink or drugs.

Glad its been sorted.
We regularly walk a field near us that is a public path but open field. There are always horses in the field, they keep their distance and all my dogs stay on lead apart from my old girl who stays close to me and has no interest in horses.

I would be gutted if I was personally screamed at for walking on land that I was allowed to walk on.

> Last week a family walked there and he went 'mental' - they didnt have a dog!!

In that case i'd still be getting some locals together to discuss this with a parish counsellor. He clearly has a problem of some description of people coming onto his land, be it that they are allowed on that footpath. Yes his wife has apologised so at least you know that someone on that land is sensible and can be spoken to if the need arises again.
But you need to have a contingency plan in case he gets a bee in his bonnet again and starts it up again. He may leave locals alone, but if he goes onto random visitors then this will do the area no good and will still need to be stopped.
It maybe that he is not well, perhaps once you've all had a discussion then it could be part of an agenda for all locals to attend and discuss. Invite him and his wife along to put their side across as to what the problem is too. Meetings are sometimes very helpful if set up and monitored correctly.

Good luck with it all

Better to nip this in the bud... farmers often have guns and if he is a crazed farmer, you don't want him scaring people off with a gun...

She has a right to walk her dogs off lead, under  control on a public footpath

Yes she does , but dont forget the "landowner"  also has the right  to shoot  her dogs if they stray off the footpath onto his land.

A few points I woudl like to  make are.

Poster says she walks through this foot path to get too  the fields and hills she exercisers her dogs on, so given you have a not so friendly landowner, why not just keep your dogs on the lead till you have passed through his land!

You say he does not keep livestock, but he does keep horses,  (I know none were in the field at that time) but lets play devils advocate here and say maybe the (landowner)  had had trouble with off lead dogs around his horses before now, and thats his reason for being anti dog... I have a friend who had the fall out of loose dogs in her field chasing her horses, when she went to bring them in (after the event)  one of them was so worked up , he trampled her and almost smashed her knee to pieces... so although your dogs are well trained he is not to know that, and maybe , just maybe he is acting on previous experiences.

He may well just be a very nasty bloke,  and given thats his true nature, I would not be giving him any bullets to fire your way ...,literary I know such a landowner,  that is extremely trigger happy, and waited for one dog walker who walked his footpath (through  a cow field) daily , with her 2 RR, he shot one as soon as it strayed off the footpath, 

Given he is the later, and if I was in your situation, I would not be bullied into not walking this path, but I sure woudl not give him any oppertunity to do something to my dogs...

Another tip, mobile phone videos are a god thing to keep charged, for such occasions.

Regards him taking  your friends fence down,. he has no right,  why are they not taking this up with the police...  is the fence on their or his land BTW... if they have erected it on his land, then it may be another matter.

But if he is in his rights to take it down and erect another,  why dont they simply just put up another 6ft fence inside their own boundry, he cant make them take that down.

Yes she does , but dont forget the "landowner"  also has the right  to shoot  her dogs if they stray off the footpath onto his land

Surely not - a land owner can't go shooting at dogs without good reason and being a couple of feet off the footpath crossing a field with no livestock, that would not, I think, constitute a good reason and would lay the landowner open to prosecution not only from the dog owner but also from the Police for recklessly discharging a firearm. Landowners can shoot a dog if it is or they have strong reason to think it might worry their livestock as far as I know shooting peoples dogs walking on a foot path is not within the law.

> Yes she does , but dont forget the "landowner"  also has the right  to shoot  her dogs if they stray off the footpath onto his land.

No he does not!!!

Landowners can shoot a dog if it is or they have strong reason to think it might worry their livestock as far as I know shooting peoples dogs walking on a foot path is not within the law.

Exactly,  and not much point in arguing your case (whether the dog was worrying livestock or not) after the dog has been shot dead.

I did say if the dog "strays off the footpath"!  not "on"  the footpath!

No he does not!!!

I must be wrong them, I was of the understanding  that a landowner can "legally" shoot a dog iif it is 1) on their land,  2) AND they feel it may be a danger to their livestock!!

Surely not - a land owner can't go shooting at dogs without good reason and being a couple of feet off the footpath crossing a field with no livestock, that would not, I think, constitute a good reason and would lay the landowner open to prosecution not only from the dog owner but also from the Police for recklessly discharging a firearm

Would you want to take the chance.

Landowner in my post, had cows in next field to the footpath, he knew  this dog owner walked her dogs in the adjoining field, regularly, (sometimes had stock in, sometimes not)  he warned her to keep her dogs on a lead, on the footpath she ignored him, so he shot her dog when it strayed off the footpath.

She reported him, he said there was livestock in the field,(at that time)  she said there was none,  he had no comeback from the police,   the end result (who ever was in the right or wrong) was she saw her dog beign shot.  not much good shouting your rights after the dog is dead.

This particular landowner is trigger happy, (not a nice man)  my point is  there is not point in being right, when you have a dead dog, for standing up for your principles.

Don't know if the laws different in England regarding dogs being shot, but I'm sure up here the dog has to actively be worrying livestock or about to and for there to be no other means of getting the dog under control. There should be something on the DEFRA website.

Playing Devil's Advocate here - and as a farmer with livestock which has been worried by dogs - I can understand why farmers can get very anti-dog walker.

I've found one of my ewes dead in a field and a lamb so near to death that the kindest thing was to shoot it. I didn't actually see the dogs but I can now understand why even a dog lover would feel driven to shoot a dog caught worrying stock and would feel tempted to shoot one that might be about to worry stock - whatever the legalities. I've also found a the remains of a new born calf in one of my fields, with at least 3 sets of dog tracks in the snow around it (earlier this year) It is very distressing for the animals and the farmer. My poor cow was so upset :(

My neighbours have got so fed up with irresponsible walkers that they have fenced in the footpaths and I feel tempted to do so with the one path that does cross our land :(

And don't get me started about those wretched candle lanterns that people send off into the air ....

A land owner does NOT have a legal right to shoot a dog just for being on his/her land. They DO however have the right, if they have REASON to think the dog is likely to worry their livestock, generally sheep. They don't necessarily have to 'catch them in the act'  Living in very 'sheepy' area we are very careful!  

They DO however have the right, if they have REASON to think the dog is likely to worry their livestock

Yes , as I thought, the landowner  DOES  have the right if they  feel a dog is likely to worry  their livestock. the dog does not have to caught in the act.

Then ofcause the onus will be then be on you to prove your dog was NOT about to or worry  any livestock,  as I said , not much of a help AFTER your dog has been shot!

,

I have never heard of a landowner shooting a dog, i am not saying it has never happened but it would i imagine be very few and far between.

It would basically the landowners word against the dog owners if the dog was worrying stock or not, as it would be with regards if the landowner was on his land or the public footpath, in which case he would be charged with discharging a firearm in a public place.

> in which case he would be charged with discharging a firearm in a public place.

If the landowner was on his own land he wouldn't be discharging a firearm in a public place. Howevr you're not allowed to shoot over a public foopath.

It would basically the landowners word against the dog owners if the dog was worrying stock or not, as it would be with regards if the landowner was on his land or the public footpath, in which case he would be charged with discharging a firearm in a public place

> If the landowner was on his own land he wouldn't be discharging a firearm in a public place. Howevr you're not allowed to shoot <I sab="50">over a public foopath.

thats why i said it would be his word agaisnt the dog owners as to where he was stood!  :)

I think shooting a dog would be an extreme measure taken by a landowner which is why its rarely heard of.

have never heard of a landowner shooting a dog, i am not saying it has never happened but it would i imagine be very few and far between.



Believe you me-it does happen! You obviously don't live in sheep country!  The majority of farmers would be very reluctant to take such action, they are animal lovers too, however, quite apart from the devastating effect on a flock of sheep, this is their livelihood. They can't afford the losses.

I am sure it does happen, but like you say they would be very reluctant to do it.

I think shooting a dog would be an extreme measure taken by a landowner which is why its rarely heard of.

Not so, it does happen,  more than you would like to think!

Jackbox,

Do you have any statistics on landowners shooting dogs as i just tried to find any but was unsuccesful

> but like you say they would be very reluctant to do it.

I'd imagine they are reluctant as it is an offence to kill or injure a dog unless is it done for the protection of livestock where there are no other means of stopping it or finding out who it belongs to. However a dog does not have tp be actievely chasing/injuring the livestock in order to be a problem, it only has to be not under close-controll.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/22

Wouldn't it just be better all round if people kept thier dogs on-lead around livestock and avoided walking near livestock,where possible, in the first place....

> This particular landowner is trigger happy, (not a nice man)&nbsp;

Then I would report the jerk to the gun licencing as they are clearly not psychologically capable of owning a gun.  We've already had two mad idiots running round the country with Guns.

Now I'm glad i live in concrete city, never thought i'd say that.

From what you're saying, your dog can get shot just because'psycho' says he thought the dog 'will' be a problem.  Everyone run to the city.

>I have never heard of a landowner shooting a dog, i am not saying it has never happened but it would i imagine be very few and far between

It depends where you live.  Some stories are apocryhal and retold regulalry as the canine equivalent of the bogeyman but it has happened near me, and there are warning signs as you enter that stretch of land.

Sadly it's more likely to be town dogs with owners on a day out as they may have no experience of how their dog would react.  Many years ago we were on holiday in Wales and someone staying in the same village had a dog that was shot.  We had our dog on holiday with us and my mum says that I wouldn't let it out of my sight and screamed til she was allowed to sleep in my room!

>Wouldn't it just be better all round if people kept thier dogs on-lead around livestock and avoided walking near livestock,where possible, in the first place....

If you live in the country there are few such places.  In our region we have very few crops and most of the fields are used for livestock - the trick is knowing where they have been moved to and spotting signs nr gateways of animal movement.  The sheep are usually moved by truck and the cattle leave very obvious markers!

Country dogs are generally more used to livestock and may be less likely to chase, their owners are usually pretty clued up about potential problems (and more prepared), and then there are others like me that make it a priority not to own the breeds of dog that might be an issue.  We have one livestock chaser so I'm very very vigilant with him but the single most important criteria when choosing our next breed was to minimise the risk of this problem.

> If you live in the country there are few such places.

I live in the country :)

Personally (to tillyandangel) I wouldn't be worrying about statistics- I just ensure my dogs do not become part of them! As dogs-a-babe says, country dwellers generally get to know where and when it is safe to let their dogs run free.

From what we have read, this surely applied to our OP. I am very fortunate,  although we have many sheep and quite a few cattle around us, there is always somewhere livestock free, be it fields or moor.

Even breeds without high prey drive can change into chasers out on the open moor, with the wind and exciting scents etc. This is where the visitor often comes unstuck!  It is always better to be safe than sorry.

> I have never heard of a landowner shooting a dog

There was a terrible case up here about 20 years ago, long before the right to roam legislation. Someone I knew from ringcraft who had gorgeous golden retrievers and lived in a cottage next to farmers fields. They were coming home one day, parked the car in their very quiet lane and opened the boot, the dogs jumped out - the gate to the field opposite was open and a few of the dogs ran in there for a look, as she was calling them back the farmer (who had been out shooting) started shooting at the dogs - only just on his land and in a field with an open gate, so clearly no livestock. If memory serves me correctly I think 2 dogs were killed and another pts later because of it's injuries. The farmer had ewes and lambs in the next field and said he thought the dogs were going to worry them, no more so than all the shooting and screaming I would have thought. The farmer was within his rights, the dog owner was distraught - as we all were on hearing about it.

Now we have the right to roam up here in Scotland things are very different. You are allowed to have your dog off lead in empty fields and be pursuing recreational activities - which can include throwing a ball, lure coursing, tracking training, playing chases - whatever. In fields with livestock your dog must be under close control and in fields with crops or grass over a certain height you must walk round the edge. All in all it's great for dog walkers, not so good for landowners/farmers.

mastifflover oops!  That was meant to say 'If you live in our part of the country'.  Next time I think of moving I'll look for arable farms!

> mastifflover oops!&nbsp; That was meant to say 'If you live in our part of the country'.&nbsp; Next time I think of moving I'll look for arable farms!

I'm surrounded by sheep, horses and cows :)
You have to drive quite a way to find fields growing crops around here :)

Do you have any statistics on landowners shooting dogs as i just tried to find any but was unsuccesful

No I dont!  not that statistics matter really,  landowners/farmers have the right to shoot your dog is they deem it to be a problem around their livestock,   how many  do in a year, I have no idea .

> <TT sab="47">Do you have any statistics on landowners shooting dogs as i just tried to find any but was unsuccesful <BR sab="48"><BR sab="49">No I dont!&nbsp; not that statistics matter really,&nbsp; landowners/farmers have the right to shoot your dog is they deem it to be a problem around their livestock,&nbsp;&nbsp; how many&nbsp; do in a year, I have no idea .

In which case how can you state that it happens a lot??

Then I would report the jerk to the gun licencing as they are clearly not psychologically capable of owning a gun.  We've already had two mad idiots running round the country with Guns.

Report him for what exactly??

Enjoying shooting rabbits and dogs that are on his land!!  he is not breaking any laws  , so what would I report,

> Enjoying shooting rabbits and dogs that are on his land!!&nbsp; he is not breaking any laws&nbsp; , so what would I report,

You can not shoot a dog for tresspassing, only for worrying livestock.

You can not shoot a dog for tresspassing, only for worrying livestock

I think thats a moot point, if the land owner "says" your dogs were worrying livestock or was concerned they might, they he is within his legal right to shoot your dog.

Arguing the point after , will not bring your dog back.

In which case how can you state that it happens a lot??

Did I say " a lot"  I said it happens, in response to  your rarely heard of.  it does happen,  how often I have no idea, not having statistics at hand, does nto prove it is a rare  or unheard off.

I know someone who walked her pointer pup on public land, he went under a fence onto  private land with sheep in, the farmer shot it,

I know someone who had her Rotti shot , by a farmer whilst she was walking a footpath to fields, the dog was on a flexi lead, he went through  the hedge onto private land, the farmer shot him.

I know of a trainer who reported to her neighbour  two dogs were in his empty sheep field, thinking he would go and  around them up or chase them away, he shot both and dumped them in the bottom of his wood.

I know someoen who had two huskies, they escaped his garden and went on a rampage and killed 30 sheep , the farmer shot one,  the other came home covered in blood, and he took it to  be PTS.

Then there is the Ridgeback also, so it may not happen a lot, but it happens, I think knowing of 5 cases  is enough to be going on with.

hmmmmm your area sounds holds a large number of gun weilding angry landowners doesnt it??

[url=]hmmmmm your area sounds holds a large number of gun weilding angry landowners doesnt it?? [/url]

Did I say they where all in my area??

Jackbox,  I wouldn't waste your virtual breath! :) The point has been well made that it can and does happen.
Farmers have the right and the means to protect their stock, and we as dog owners have the right and means to protect our dogs- leads and common sense.  :)

it makes my park in my town where i walk mine suddenly seem like a very safe place!!