> it does seem incredible to me that the couple left the whole of the ground floor open

In this hot weather I am sure many of us leave doors open - in fact I have only just closed mine now it is starting to get dark.  As for the fox just staring at her - that is what I was saying, foxes are loosing their fear of humans.  I have some photos of the fox in my garden - only yards away from me.  It was lying in my dog's favourite spot in the sun - I did a double take and realised that the dog was in the kitchen with me.  I took photos of it - it then walked to the front of my house and drank from the pool while I took photos of it - standing only a few yards away.  That was not a town fox either.  In the Telegraph this morning was a photo taken by a policeman at the house showing the fox - a young one standing looking at him through the patio doors.  What would happen if rabies got to this country I really hate to think.

>> it does seem incredible to me that the couple left the whole of the ground floor open
>In this hot weather I am sure many of us leave doors open - in fact I have only just closed mine now it is starting to get dark.

The same here too. In the hot evenings we often have all the windows open, upstairs and down, and the back door open, until we go to bed.

afraid I wouldnt if I lived in the city of london , just as dont in the city of liverpool !

> Strange is has always been called Fox mange around here and dogs get it from foxes.

Here too.
Some foxes may also carry other diseases such as leptospirosis.
I don't know if below have been found in UK foxes, but this a study done in Germany tested for parvo, distemper, adenovirus and canine herpesvirus:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=39557

Some are so low as to be negligible, but there does remain the possibility that foxes could spread some infections to dogs.

I still do not think this freak attack would justify bringing back the barbaric SPORT of hunting with dogs.

Its called Fox mange.... if foxes get it from dogs why isnt it called dog or canine mange? Hummmm Sarcoptic mange manifests itself in dogs does it? Thats a fox expert!!!

> Its called Fox mange.... if foxes get it from dogs why isnt it called dog or canine mange? Hummmm Sarcoptic mange manifests itself in dogs does it? Thats a fox expert!!!

I suppose as dogs are a popular target for the media these days it won't be long before they will be renaming fox mange 'dog mange'. Also suspect the fox expert might realise that his precious foxes are under fire and is diverting the fear to dogs.... As I said earlier the media has used this expert to plant another fear in the minds of the public.

I suspect political moves afoot.

> justify bringing back the barbaric SPORT of hunting with dogs

It is not really feasible in the city anyway :-) - that was my attention grabbing subject line.  However I will say this - trapping, poisoning, shooting etc can all be barbaric too.  I suppose the method that was used in London after the attack - trap and kill quickly is the best but most labour intensive.  But from the links that have been put up on this thread it appears that once one fox is removed then another will move in. 

I think the only thing that will help is a publicity campaign to stop peopel feedign urban foxes.

And to keep rubbish off the ground and bins tightly closed.

> I suspect political moves afoot.

There is a lot of talk about bringing back the dog licence which is supported by the government and more controls on dogs too. Maybe it is time we moved abroad???

Me two we are ground floor flat and all the doors are open, mind you with two dogs we do here a mouse pass the gate!!

I only shut the doors just before bed time when its hot outside.

I agree Brainless - foxes have, in my mind, become another victim of adapting based on the actions of humans. We've created the problem by poor disposal of our rubbish and thinking it is "cute" to watch them feeding in our gardens. Now there is an outcry and the fox becomes yet another demonised animal who has simply adapted for survival.

If we adopted an american system we would have inner fly sheet doors that let the air in and keep the flies out, that would work.

Can't believe what I'm reading - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7824648/Mother-of-twin-girls-mauled-by-fox-threatened-by-animal-rights-activists.html... people (if you can call them that) who place vermin, as pretty and cute as they look, above human life... never ceases to amaze me

> Can't believe what I'm reading - [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7824648/Mother-of-twin-girls-mauled-by-fox-threatened-by-animal-rights-activists.html" rel=nofollow]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7824648/Mother-of-twin-girls-mauled-by-fox-threatened-by-animal-rights-activists.html[/url]... people (if you can call them that) who place vermin, as pretty and cute as they look, above human life... never ceases to amaze me

"Online communities have accused the mother of lying about the creature and courting publicity. She was even accused of having an agenda to repeal the Hunting Ban"
Thats rather different from the actual headline and is no different than questions raised on this thread! The media do like to dramatise things for the shock-factor, don't they :( :(

> The media do like to dramatise things

Well they have papers to sell don't they!  Read and interesting letter in this mornings paper (Western Mail).  The writer said it was all very well for the 'experts' to go on about how foxes wouldn't attack like this etc but they should ask an ordinary country person that lives along side these animals.  He said that contrary to belief that foxes are cold blooded killers they often only take sick or dead lambs.  HOWEVER he said it is known for a fox to be a rogue and kill for the sake of it.  Then the difficulty is identifying that one fox and killing it. 

Foxes will take perfectly healthy lambs. I know that by experience. "Cold blooded killer" is humanising animal behaviour. Yes, they kill....for survival - not just for the sake of killing. All predators could be humanised by the term "cold blooded killer".

Horrible what's happening to the family. As much as I find it shocking and very surprising that a fox would do this, I am no expert on urban foxes. Rural foxes are rarely seen due to their natural wariness of humans. Not many people living rurally would put food out for foxes or leave their rubbish bags lying around for them to scavenge from! I've lived in the country all my life and can probably count on two hands how many times I have seen a fox.

> Foxes will take perfectly healthy lambs.

That's what I have always understood - coming from sheep country - ~Shropshire hills.  As for seeing rural foxes - well one trotted past our house - across the field behind us, last night.  Foxes have always taken a route across the road in front of our house down into the woods the other side.  Now we have built our house they have to make a slight diversion.

As I said before, having worked with foxes for over 15 years, there is a condition called adenovirus. Not alot is known about it in foxes. There is no treatment and no cure, and we are at present unsure as to whether, given time they recover.
It affects their mental state.
We have one in rehab at the moment. It's a rural fox. When approached by us, it runs at you and tries to lunge at you. I highly doubt it will be released and probably euthanased, but we are giving it time.
Glasgow uni are testing more foxes for this condition.
I strongly believe the fox in the baby attacks could well have suffered from this.
Alternatively, it was a bolder than usual urban fox that panicked when trapped in cot.

Only just discovered this thread. Those posters who seem to think that the parents have lied about a fox being responsible for attacking their babies should be ashamed of themselves !

it gets better and better as today a school in cardiff kept pupils indoors because a fox was sighted in the grounds!!! LOL what a hoot.....

LOL!!! You've just given me the biggest laugh of the day :)

Well they are living and breeding in the grounds of the special school a road away from me.  I see at least one fox on our night time walks around the streets of this former council estate.

As a child I used to go to the hunt in Sherwood forest, It was quite a normal thing, it was never during the breeding season. I was always told it kept the foxes population under control. I was also told that if it wasn't ,they would spread into the homes and villages. When they have young or become hungry they would take babies out of there prams.  In the 1950's and 60's it was quite normal to put your babies in there prams down the garden. (fresh air made your baby sleep) Since the hunt has been banned, the things my grandmother used to tell me is now happening. As I now live in a city, I see foxes every where. They do carry a lot of disease. A gentleman who lived 4 houses away was walking his poodle at night (we back on to a park) it was attacked by a fox quite badly. I think the hunt should have been allowed to continue. I don't know how they are now going to control the foxes any more than the rats.
Don't get me wrong the fox is a part of our country side. It should have remained that way.    

> As I said before, having worked with foxes for over 15 years, there is a condition called adenovirus. Not alot is known about it in foxes. There is no treatment and no cure, and we are at present unsure as to whether, given time they recover.<br />It affects their mental state.

I'm interested in this - it certainly would account for some of the more recent reports of foxes taking cats (never really proven before), attacking dogs (seen a few accounts of that on various dog forums of late) and the attacking people & babies thing.

Would be interested in finding out more, are there any links to the current research, or is there anyone I can contact?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287256/The-terrifying-night-I-attacked-fox-home.html

After reading this, I have begun to wonder whether the hunting of foxes originated, not just to kill them but to ensure they stay wary of humans?  but of course Fox Hunting is such an old sport that the original reasons would be lost in the mists of time.

I cannot believe that people think bringing back hunting will control urban foxes!! Exactly how can a hunt control a fox population??? I hardly think numbers can be controlled by taking out a couple of foxes over the course of weekend!! And even more to the point..how will this control urban foxes?!

Foxes moved into cities in the 1930s - this is not a new problem. People feed foxes in their gardens, we leave rubbish lying all over the place....perhaps the answer is to address our slovenly ways?

Perhaps we should also remember that we imported foxes to this country to supplement our own fox population to make a hunt more "fun"!

Whilst an awful thing to happen to the family perhaps we should remember -

For every exceptional incident of a fox attacking a child, we should recall another statistic: in 2008/9, 5,221 people, including 1,250 children, were treated in hospital in England after being bitten by a dog!

I have more to risk than most from foxes (have lost livestock to them) and find it sickening that one of our largest (and, imo, most beautiful predators) is being demonised because they adapted to the life humans enabled them to have.

Has anyone on here mentioned the link to nappies?

My sister in law has to make sure nappies are well wrapped and placed in secure bins to stop the foxes taking them.  After the grandchildren had been there, my mum reported that her bins were raided by foxes and the nappies strewn all through their woods.  She actually saw one fox carrying a nappy away in the morning.

These are country foxes too - on Dartmoor.  Although it's worth mentioning that locals believe the RSPCA is releasing urban foxes on the moor...

I doubt its the rspca but there is definitely a fox release scheme here on dartmoor we have a) found the release pens and b) seen them being released :(  :(

What's wrong with a fox release scheme? I presume this would be for injured rural foxes as to release urban foxes would be cruelty given they will be lacking the necessary hunting skills for survival in a rural environment.

This fox thing has got out of hand. Walking doglets in the park tonight a fox appeared and was briefly chased into a shrubbery by my friend's staffies. But a couple walking along the path nearby looked really nervous and their kids ran away scared!!!!

>What's wrong with a fox release scheme?

Are they an endangered species? No. There's plenty of them - too many really for the natural food supplies. Numbers need controlling, not increasing.

>I presume this would be for injured rural foxes as to release urban foxes would be cruelty given they will be lacking the necessary hunting skills for survival in a rural environment.

Those locals that I've spoken with are sure they are urban foxes - which is why they've seen an increase of bin raiding, and more 'people confident' animals, that spend time during daylight hours in close proximity to houses.

Releasing an animal outside of its home territory is no better than taking someone's pet cat or dog and releasing it 100 miles from home, to take its chances.

On monday this week i took a train to Stafford to see my brother from the train window I saw two foxes on waste ground behind houses on the edge of a town. A small stream ran across the waste ground and on the other side of the stream a man was walking his staffordshire bull terrier. The foxes were totally unconcerned and did not run away, the dog was obviously used to seeing foxes and ignored them just as it might have ignored another dog.

Are they an endangered species? No. There's plenty of them - too many really for the natural food supplies.

I am not sure how you can honestly say there's too many foxes for natural food supplies given the main source of their diet is mice and rats! There are many animals that are not an endangered species yet we would, as compassionate animal lovers, strive to rehabilitate those injured or orphaned and return to their natural habitat.

It is ironic that in the days of fox hunting, in hunt areas, fox numbers were kept at an artificially high level by providing them with breeding chambers and supplying them with food. Control of numbers? What a joke! Recent studies estimate 33,000 urban foxes and just short of 250,000 rural foxes - hardly a pandemic and I am sure more than sufficient rodents in the food chain for our native predator!

> Are they an endangered species? No. There's plenty of them - too many really for the natural food supplies. Numbers need controlling, not increasing.

Please come to rural Norfolk which is over run with rabbits. Rabbits that slowly die of myxomatosis. I'd like more foxes around here please.

> What's wrong with a fox release scheme? I presume this would be for injured rural foxes as to release urban foxes would be cruelty given they will be lacking the necessary hunting skills for survival in a rural environment.

no they are urban foxes :( they come into our farmyard and walk right up to us like pets :( Still at least it makes them easier to shoot!!

> It is ironic that in the days of fox hunting, in hunt areas, fox numbers were kept at an artificially high level by providing them with breeding chambers and supplying them with food.

I remember as a teenager, stepping out of my front door to go to school. A cute little fox cub ran accross my shoe!!! A farm hand was trying to catch him. The cub had been orphaned by the local hunt, so was taken to the farm (by the hunt) to be raised & then released back to where he was found......

> I remember as a teenager, stepping out of my front door to go to school. A cute little fox cub ran accross my shoe!!! A farm hand was trying to catch him. The cub had been orphaned by the local hunt, so was taken to the farm (by the hunt) to be raised & then released back to where he was found......

really? how odd. hunts dont hunt once there are cubs of orphanable age!

> It is ironic that in the days of fox hunting, in hunt areas, fox numbers were kept at an artificially high level by providing them with breeding chambers and supplying them with food. Control of numbers? What a joke!

blimey you must be very very old to remember that practise which was stopped in the 1950's!!! Typical anti propaganda!

>>The cub had been orphaned by the local hunt, so was taken to the farm (by the hunt) to be raised & then released back to where he was found......
>hunts dont hunt once there are cubs of orphanable age!

It's actually much more likely to happen now when foxes are being killed all year round by amateurs rather than only in the non-breeding season by professionals.

professional what?
sportsman or murderers?

Whatever description you feel suits a person who does a necessary job efficiently.

oh you mean a professionally trained game keeper

Or professionally trained huntsman or professionally trained pest control officer.

latter yes.
Former method hardly controls the population. If allowing dogs to tear apart foxes, deer etc is professional, they need more training.

>If allowing dogs to tear apart foxes, deer etc is professional, they need more training.

Apart from the fact that deer are shot, you seem to be saying that butchers are unprofessional and need more training because they 'tear apart' cattle and sheep after they've been killed. But that's taking the thread way off topic which will be unpopular with the mods!