http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20100606/tuk-baby-twins-badly-hurt-in-fox-attack-dba1618.html  Nasty - these town foxes seem to fear nothing.  When my daughter lived in London (a ground floor flat) she twice had a fox come through the kitchen door.  The first time it marked all around their bedroom and took a leather belt.  The second time it walked straight into her living room where she was sitting.  When it saw her it turned around and left.  This was before she had her baby. 

I saw this on the news as well. The people who encourage predators to lose their natural fear of humans should be ashamed of themselves.

Very worrying, there have been many reports of domestic animals being attacked but if they take to trying to eat people that is a different story, even the rat waits till it's the victim is dead. Do not think now we have the urban fox we will ever get rid but the sooner there is a program of culling the better.

Don't think hunting will help with the urban fox they are there because of the rubbish we leave about and because there are those who try to encourage them. Very pretty and interesting to see a vixen with playing cubs in the open countryside but not a good idea in the suburban garden.

How awfull :(

I don't think bringing back fox-hunting is the answer to this problem. Prior to the ban on hunting with dogs, we were told that 10 times more foxes were shot than were killed by The Hunt and that this figure would drastically increase with a ban on hunting.  This article seems in line with that statement - 5 foxes shot in a couple of hours by 1  man in 1 area.

I think the urban foxes are learning they have easy access to food from the people around them which encourges them to get close to people and take risks they wouldn't do otherwise. People need to stop feeding them & ensure thier refuse is not accesable to foxes.

It was not the killing alone that kept the numbers down it was the moving on - they will not breed unless they are able to found a safe den, so hunting by constantly moving them on kept the numbers down, in truth the hunt killed very few, but now they are breeding far more freely there are now too many for the food available so they move into towns where they will again find food in short supply as the numbers increase and they will start looking for food in places other than the dustbin and that is when we will have to become involved, to loose ones chickens is bad  enough but ones babies is unthinkable.

I live in the outskirts of a city and on my way to shows, very early in the morning, I often stop in a very busy road to use the cash machine.

The place is awash with foxes, they walk right past me just like a cat or a dog, no fear just interest in what I'm doing. They are also overrunning the common in front of my house and are not scared of my dogs. They run up to them and screech into their faces.

It's only a matter of time before the 'powers that be' relealise that they are getting out of control.......

although perhaps the council see them as street cleaners, disposing of all the take-away rubbish that litters our streets.

Just as an aside...did anyone else notice the Red Kite circling over the toy rings at Southern Counties? It stayed for a very long time just going round and round - lower and lower.... eeek!

I found this article about foxes in urban areas. It is very interesting
http://www.trafford.gov.uk/cme/live/cme1896.htm

This is also interesting
http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/urbanfoxes/index.html

I have to admit that I think foxes are lovely, but the town ones which don't seem to be really scared of humans or dogs have made their way back into the countryside where I live and they tease my dogs by sitting the other side of the fence, these foxes won't go for love nor money and the dogs barking at them don't make any difference. The real countryside foxes run a mile and won't even entertain the idea of coming near the dogs.

My friends Dad feeds a fox every night, it is wrong, I hear that  a lot of squirrels go rogue after being 'rescued' and getting habituated to humans.

> They are also overrunning the common in front of my house and are not scared of my dogs. They run up to them and screech into their faces.
>

I imagine the problem will only get worse....I'm struggling to find a word for it....similar to domestication - the 'braver' foxes - the ones that take more risks & are not afraid of people - will be more successfull with food-finding/den-building, so will more likely raise thier young to adulthoood etc.. So with each generation, the foxes are 'braver'....

>Just as an aside...did anyone else notice the Red Kite circling over the toy rings at Southern Counties? It stayed for a very long time just going round and round - lower and lower.... eeek!

There are plenty of them now around Newbury so quite a common sight, but we didn't have them cruising for a meal on gundog day.

Mind you we used to get the local buzzards sitting in our trees eyeing up our boy when he was a pup! Definately a cause for eeek!!

> I found this article about foxes in urban areas. It is very interesting
> http://www.trafford.gov.uk/cme/live/cme1896.htm

LOL it contradicts itself - it says that there is no difference between urban & rural foxes & that they are often the same animal. The it goes on to say you can feed them, but try not to make them too tame as  'Urban foxes already are pretty tolerant of humans, and show none of the natural fear of rural foxes.'

> I have to admit that I think foxes are lovely, but the town ones which don't seem to be really scared of humans or dogs have made their way back into the countryside where I live and they tease my dogs by sitting the other side of the fence, these foxes won't go for love nor money and the dogs barking at them don't make any difference.

It's not natural is it. Foxes should run, they are usually such shy creatures that it's hard to even see one. I would be quite worried to see a fox that didn't run away, it would really un-nerve me.

> LOL it contradicts itself

Hehe, I actually read it as that they are the same fox, as in breed type.. As you can get red foxes, fennec foxes.. etc...Its just the 'urban' foxes have become more domesticated compared to their 'rural' friends.

My boys just won't let up when they have a fox sitting there watching them, even at the sight of me(which should be scary enough) doesn't waver them.. I've had to go out to the fields and chase them away, but within a few minutes they are back again....
We also have them walking in front of us as we go down our driveway, they just saunter across without a care in the world..

> I would be quite worried to see a fox that didn't run away, it would really un-nerve me.

I was talking to someone outside my gate when a mangey scruffy fox with a scabby bit of string for a tail, walked right past us - almost close enough to touch. It didnt look up, just made its way past on its merry way. I called to it and it barely gave me a glance...cheeky!
During this warm weather there are hundreds of people having BBQs on our common and they leave all their food behind..... no wonder we are awash with foxes.

It's very frightening isn't it, that the urban fox has become so unafraid of humans that the braver will even come into our territory and see our young as possible prey, some urban foxes are quite large too and I've noticed keep eye contact.

My country foxes are still very timid of us and the dogs and will run and hide. IMO beautiful creatures.

The food source that urban foxes have had for years i.e our rubbish is being improved though, we now have wheelie bins, black sacks in most councils are not allowed they will only take the wheelie bin, many councils also have the food tubs for food wastage, again sealed so foxes can not get in. Many public rubbish bins now have lids or are designed so that they can't be reached into. If we continue in making it impossible for bins to be raided then it will affect the fox, less food, will mean smaller litters, less viable litters and numbers eventually reducing. I do agree that as this happens foxes may well become more desperate. This may also be why in some towns and suburbs where things are already implemented that they are bolder and more likely to do things like this as their food source dries up. I also agree that the public should not feed these foxes.

Animal control units need to keep an eye on numbers and IMO if some areas are becoming overwhelmed with this newer evolution of  bolder fox then we need some humane culling to happen. Otherwise the urban fox is going to become too much of a danger.

Terrible story about the two children.

I was a little sceptical to say the least when my mother recently told me that her friend's poodle had been killed and eaten by a coyote while it was let out to play in the garden...in NY?! I'd always associated them with western states, but having since looked it up it seems the East Coast coyote is a very well known predator even in the NY suburbs now, and there are constant warning about leaving your dog outside unattended, or worse, tied up. It sounds like we are getting to a similar stage with urban foxes. I'm certainly not excusing them, but the end of the day they just want an easy dinner like most animals, and if they can get in the garbage can, or help themselves to leftovers from the kitchen counter, they will. We live in a very rural area and I've only lost a couple of hens once years age, and it was only because they flew over the fence for the night--I was sad to lose them, but didn't mind that the fox got a meal. The henitentiary is now surrounded by a 6' tall fence buried 18" underground in an L shape, backfilled with stone. I haven't seen one since.

I have to say I really do find it hard to believe that a fox entered a house and went up two flights of stairs then maulled two babies and the parents didnt know until they heard the children crying , I would think if the babies were two flights away from the living area the parents would have baby alarm so would have heard something.

Dont get me wrong I was shocked as much as everyone else when I heard about it  but I am now beginning to have doubts ...all we are hearing is media coverage and newspapers..I was listening to Bill Oddie talking on a few programmes today which got me thinking.. .

We live in the suburbs have foxes come occasionally into our garden and see them early morning wandering around the parks but they run and hide if you make a step towards them.

Just thought I would throw it out there to see what other really do think??

roni

Ive worked with foxes for 20 years. Both in London and rural Norfolk. They are clearly behavioural differences with urbans being bolder an cheekier but they will still leg it when approached.
What perfect timing for the coalition government who want a free vote to bring back the hunt.
I feel for the babies but it's extremely rare for a fox to just attack. It's more likely the fox got itself into the cot, panicked, and possibly scrabbled out in fear leaving scratches etc on the babies.
Also, since the ban on hunting, hunting with dogs still goes on, and any foxes caught are seen as an "accident".
Sadly there is now a growing underground "urban hunt" where gangs with dogs set them on foxes. Foxes in urban areas have also been culled for years by the local councils.
It would be a huge step backwards if they re introduced the hunt as I do not believe this barbaric sport is a proper method of population control.

and just to add
what the hell was the point in putting a trap in the garden?
Well they caught "a" fox and destroyed it. Probably not even the said fox! Where's the justice in that?

I sort of agree with you Roni , I don't want to say it didn't happen but it does seem incredible that the fox went all the way up to their bedroom unnoticed and unheard.

It also made me think that if a fox could sneak in , what was there to stop an intruder to sneak in undetected at that time at night? I don't even have children yet but I know i'd never leave any way for something/someone to enter my house and cause possible harm to my children.

The fact that the fox had entered the house and mauled not one but 2 kids makes me think something else is an issue...
I know the UK is rabies free, but this fox displayed odd behaviour, much like a rabid animal.
Hopefully it is not rabid. Hunting wont eliminate city foxes.
I wonder if they are sending any foxes they do catch off for rabies testing?

I didn't believe it at first, but we are quite a few days down the line now and if it had been anything else there would have been something said by now??.  These poor children are still in a bad way and having operations hope they survive whatever the story.

Hmmm, must admit to reading Terry Nutkins and co's comments in the news, and wondering - if not a fox, then what did attack the children?

There is a condition in foxes caused by an adenovirus. It affects them neurologically. It makes them tame and lose all inhibitions. Not alot is known about it (cause, treatment, outcome), but the university of Glasgow are running blood tests on suspected foxes.

sadly some morons release urban foxes in the country side.....we often see it here when these delusioned do gooders think they are doing the right thing......sadly they are not!   One night we were out shooting and got back to our lamb sheds when three foxes came right up to us , through the farm buildings with lights on,and were in touching distance and sat and looked at us like pet dogs. I have no doubts that semi tames urban foxes would enter a house

> I have no doubts that semi tames urban foxes would enter a house

I have to agree with this, I live in a rural area now and the foxes are very shy, I know they are about because I hear them and see their muck but rarely see one apart from the tip of a disappearing tail. I used to live in a more suburban area in South Wales and I'd see foxes ALL the time there, I used to think it was normal for them to play in gardens and stare at you etc. but since moving realize it's probably because as you say they have been 'semi-tamed', the friends father I mentioned earlier lives there and I doubt he's the only fox feeder.
I'm not surprised people are feeding them though, on that Trafford website Suejaw (i think) posted the link for it said feeding foxes was OK.

I put a lot of blame on BBC.  constantly promoting the feeding of foxes on their programes.  its not natural and its not right and its no wonder these creatures lose all fear of man. I'm not surprised by this incident what with people coaxing them to feed at their patio doors and habituating them. 
I would also suspect the fox at the centre of this attack was a hand reared orphan as it seems to be a fashion to rear and release. 
beautiful creatures foxes but to me only beautiful when left alone to be the wild things they should be. 
release of hand reared foxes and fox feeding should both be banned.  the handrearing and release of rats and feeding of wild rats is not encouraged so why foxes? 
they are a wild preditor and should be left wild, i do not want to see them exterminated but over tame ones should be culled as they are a danger to domestic pets and small children with their excessive boldness.

> release of hand reared foxes and fox feeding should both be banned

Feeding should be discouraged but why ban the rearing?
Not all rehabbed cubs are tame I can tell you!

If they're hand-reared they shouldn't be released, but kept captive, the way grey squirrels have to be.

Quote misswager - The fact that the fox had entered the house and mauled not one but 2 kids makes me think something else is an issue...

From my experience I do not think it strange fox behaviour, a fox will go to great lengths to get into a chicken pen and kill 100 and take one so for an emboldened urban fox to go into a house and damage two children seems to me normal fox behaviour, misplaced and aggravated by the semi domestication of some of these foxes.

> If they're hand-reared they shouldn't be released, but kept captive, the way grey squirrels have to be.

WHY?
Grey squirrels can be released. You just need a licence

I fail to see difference between handrearing a rat and a fox apart from one has better pr.
both species are beautiful intelligent creatures with clever ways and a lot of appeal.  both spread disease, and are classed as vermin. they'll both take household pets as part of their menu too.
neither species is rare or endangered in any way. both have extremely high populations and do not need deliberate human help to suceed in keeping populations up. both are frankly a nuisance when population gets large.
foxes are deemed 'cutier' so get reared by well meaning people but it doesn't make it right.
they should be left alone as much as possible to find their own level, the release of handreared and the feeding of foxes is bad for the species as it brings them into conflict with people by removing their one defence-that of being nervous of people and buildings.

> If they're hand-reared they shouldn't be released, but kept captive, the way grey squirrels have to be.

WHY?
Grey squirrels can be released. You just need a licence

and i've seen people badly bitten by hand reared squirrels too!!!!
leave wild animals to be wild. plenty of domestic animals to make pets of without messing with the heads of poor wildlife

>Grey squirrels can be released. You just need a licence

No, you need a licence to keep them. This makes it clear that under the Countryside and Wildlife Act captured grey squirrels may not be released.

See also here.

I live on the south coast and we have foxes in the field behind our house and loads of the neighbours regularly put food out for them and they are getting tame.  Nice for the people but sad for the foxes as behaviour like this will lead to their demise in the end i fear.

But in reply to Roni's point, it does seem incredible to me that the couple left the whole of the ground floor open (2 sets of patio doors or something similar) for anyone to get in.  Anyone determined will climb a garden wall to gain access.  I know the mother said she saw a fox and that it didnt move when she screamed but i am just so sceptical about the whole thing.  The point about my first paragraph is that these foxes recognise the people who feed them and feel comfortable with them but if anyone else confronts them they will run off so i find it hard to believe that this woman screamed and the fox just stared at her.  I do feel sad for the children but somehow i just don't believe it.

Mmmm I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't 100% convinced by the story of the two poor little girls being attacked by a fox. The mother said she only noticed the blood on the first baby because the second one's screaming alerted them - surely the first one would have cried when it was attacked and they would have heard her ?. I'm sure though that the hospital will discover what really happened and I just hope the two little babes recover quickly.

> No, you need a licence to keep them

Actually, you can apply for a licence to release via Natural England

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article3378581.ece

>Actually, you can apply for a licence to release via Natural England

What a terrible, terrible shame. :-( :-(

It is for grey squirrel lovers as the chances of getting a licence is extremely slim.

Anything that gives our endangered native species a helping hand is good; grey squirrels are neither native nor endangered.

> the feeding of foxes is bad for the species as it brings them into conflict with people by removing their one defence-that of being nervous of people and buildings.

This is the situation with Bears in the USA, and they are killed if they can;t be discouraged from getting too close to human habitation.

Coyotes are also a nuisance and danger to pets at least,a dn no-one sets out to encourage them in suburbs.

> I do feel sad for the children but somehow i just don't believe it.

ditto

> Anything that gives our endangered native species a helping hand is good; grey squirrels are neither native nor endangered

Agreed, I love animals but I'd hate to see the effect the grey squirrels would have over here on the Isle of Wight where we still have a strong red squirrel population. Grey squirrels are cute... but in their natural habitat.

> strong red squirrel population.

Yes because we have no greys, apart from the annual joke of someone bringing over a squashed one and leaving it in the road. Saw a red walk down the road infront of the house this morning.

This is the situation with Bears in the USA, and they are killed if they can;t be discouraged from getting too close to human habitation.

Coyotes are also a nuisance and danger to pets at least,a dn no-one sets out to encourage them in suburbs.

People don't feed coyotes, but many many tourists seek out to feed bears, elk, bison, moose etc. Endangering themselves and the animals. One Chinese couple even put honey on their CHILDS hand to get a picture of it licking it off. STUPIDITY.

Another issue is urban coyotes are becoming brave and are stalking dog walkers with small dogs. I do believe one lady was killed in Canada not long ago from a coyote. These coyotes werent fed, but are clever animals realising that fido is an easy meal.

Then like you said, the animal gets destroyed because it becomes accustomed to associate humans with food. Its very sad. I dont think the foxes would be such an issue if the UK still had its native predators around. Sadly they have been eliminated over time. But, if they were still here it would make livestock farming rather difficult.

Coyote killing

"TORONTO - Two coyotes attacked a Canadian woman while she was hiking alone in a national park in eastern Canada, and authorities said she died Wednesday of her injuries.

The victim was identified as Taylor Mitchell, 19, a singer-songwriter from Toronto who was touring in support of her new album on the East Coast.

She was hiking solo on a trail in Cape Breton Highlands National Park in Nova Scotia on Tuesday when the attack occurred. She was airlifted to a Halifax hospital in critical condition and died Wednesday morning, authorities said."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/28/ns-coyote-attack-died.html

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7813635/I-was-bitten-by-a-fox-too-says-nine-year-old-girl.html]Foxes have attacked children in bedrooms before.[url]

Did any of you hear the "fox expert" also quoted in some papers saying "the foxes can catch sarcoptic mange which is carried by dogs" Yet another dig at dogs!

Strange is has always been called Fox mange around here and dogs get if from foxes.