I just been listening to LBC Radio 97.3 fm  or 0124 on your sky,

and the program coming on at 7 pm tonight will be asking if people should be banned from keeping dogs if you live in a council place,
this has come from a mother whos daughter was bitten by her neighbours dog and they are in council property,

i know we need to do something about the tragic things that happen with dogs in the wrong hands but here again i feel why should Everyone suffer because the youth or idiot dog owners who allow things things to happen,

I can understand how angry the mother must feel but this really is coming from the wrong angle and sooo judgemental. Anyway the same problem will happen that those who arn't responsible owner will still keep their dogs and defy the law

I don't see what difference it makes if you live in a council house or not, there are irresponsible people living in non-council houses afterall.

Alot of councils here have banned *restricted breeds* from their houses :(. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference..

I dont see how they could bring this into effect now , i mean for myself if my housing suddenly decided to ban dogs from their houses what would they REALLY think i'd be saying "oh yes sure no problem i'll just pop my dogs down to battersea dogs home",

i am affraid id be more likley to tell them to start court proceedings against me to get me out then and i'd take my chances with the judge,
my dogs are my family id no more get rid of them than i would my kids, Urmmm scrap that i'd get rid of the kids and keep the dogs lol,

Here they tried to enforce it for every council tenant but realised it was impossible. So after much haggling they decided that the new rule would only count for new tenants (the old tenant were told they had to neuter and MC their dogs if they wanted to keep them), in the hope that in 20 years time or so the council estates would be free of "dangerous" dogs. They also sent out leaflets with the restricted breeds to the tenants, I got a copy here of them and OMG, they havent got a clue, the pics are all wrong and the worst is the Akita, it's actuallya pic of a BC.

Muppets, the whole lot of them.

OMG so because they don't own their home they are an irresponsible dog owner too.
What next they can't vote either, not informed enough!!!

talk about build a divide between people where you can only own a dog if you own your own house :-(, what about pensioners who may want a little dog for company,
seems a sad way to go their are whole estates round here mostly council if our council done this we'd have to come to the countryside to ever see a dog :-O ,

I remember all that happening Otterhound.  Caused outrage and so much worry amongst the Stafford community, and rescue's there in Ireland too!

Council tenants and benefit claimants are very easy targets for government--we could have a long discussion about the controls and sanctions that have been brought in that directly discriminate against people who are not in paid work, or are caught between benefits and low paid work or who are in some other way reliant on the state for support. This is just the latest in a series of poorly thought out proposals that can eventually find their way into bye laws and housing policy and will need the very people who are least resourced to challenge these pointless 'improvements' to society. Given the emphasis on social exclusion and the need to "do something", funny how it usually ends up even more sharply dividing society...

No one here believed  they would do it. Next thing we knew, it was decided and that was that.Another knee-jerk reaction by politicians and sluggish council officials. There was even a proposal by the Labour Party to ban restricted breeds nationwide. I was on a TV talk show "pitted" against Labours Joe Costelloe re this issue and he didn't have a clue, he actually stated those dogs are being owned only by criminals. His mouth fell open when I asked him if he called the ex-mayor of Dublin a criminal as he had adopted a restricted breed from me or RTE's own Graham Cruz (fashion guy) who had adopted a Staffie from me. As the show was live, he looked like the muppet that he is. It just goes to show that these decision are based on what they perceive as popular public opinion. The pounds were overflowing with restricted breeds at that time as people got scared to lose their housing and dumped their dogs. :(

Alot of other councils have since followed suit and banned restricted breeds.

can i ask what are the restricted breeds or are they same as the DDA ones,

can honestly say that the way i feel right now about the area i live in, the huge amount im paying to live here , and the way in genral that my council try to fleece more money from you when your scraping the barrel just to try and get by as it is , that i am sick to death of it all so if it did happen here i would buy a caravan and live in that the way my mum does in the season , all id need is a site thats open all year round which alot of them are doing right now anyway,
i have neighbours that are running alive with rats mice and cockroaches and the council do NOTHING !! even after me complaining to my mp STILL they are storing lorry loads of food in their house which is not helping the situation but adding to the cause, not to mention the gutt renching smell that comes thu the walls into my home, and i have to pay £600 a month to live here then council tax on top of that, Then the council got the bare cheek to want Another £130.00 service charge for the estate which is infact across the road from my house (im not a council tennent either) but they say my house is in their deeds as being on the estate so i must pay, its a ruddy joke i tell you,

> can i ask what are the restricted breeds or are they same as the DDA ones,

The current list:
Control of Dogs Regulations 1991
Section 4:
This article shall apply to every:
American Pit Bull Terrier
Bull Mastiff
Doberman pinscher
English Bull Terrier
German Shepard (Alsation)
Japanese Akita
Japanese Tosa
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Rottweiler
Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and
to every dog of the type commonly known as the Ban Dog (or Bandog) and to every other strain or cross of every breed or type of dog described in this article

thanks brainless i have 2 of the breeds their , i have 2 English bull terriers and  1 Rottweiler,
and i live in rented social housing , i guess this would make me one of the stero type people they are trying to wipe out, even tho my dogs are all well trained well socialized and LOVE EVERYONE AND ANYONE! ,, even my vet is impressed with my rottie and tells me his never meet such a friendly boy who let him take out some pretty tough stitches in my boys leg with only a little grumble , He is such a friendly chap with good maners to, he's probebley better behaved than myself at times lol, i seem to get agravated at eveything around here , honestly im putting in for a move this year i have to get away from this depressing place ,
ohhh give me an island on my own with my dogs and i'll be happy forever and a day xx

also i cant understand the English bull terrier one,  as although i have a running debate with Nick Farrari who does the breakfast show on LBC Radio who insistets my dogs are  a KILLER DOG,  thats what he thinks of my bullys, i am so mad at this i challenged him live on air to meet me at his local park (blackheath greenwich) so i could show him just how much of a killer my dogs are ( lick him to death they would no teeth needed lol) he of course declined my invertation,
i have to say while owning bullys iv only ever meet other bull terriers and owners that were all as soppy as mine, all over friendly tail wagging smiley looking bullys , may be their are some bad bullys out their but iv never meet one, and mine are anyone and everyones when walking , give them a kind word while off a lead and you could easyliy run off with both mine lol  my rottie although sweet kind and gentel he would be pleased to great any stranger near me if they approched me but he'd stay by me and not go off to strangers my bullys would go off with anyone thats just smelling like they cooked a chicken lol,

> i know we need to do something about the tragic things that happen with dogs in the wrong hands but here again i feel why should Everyone suffer because the youth or idiot dog owners who allow things things to happen,

Because innocent children are dying . 
I agree that this is a knee-jerk reaction but i wonder if the 2 children who come to my mind would still be alive now if this had been brought into being ? There was the one in Liverpool one New Year and the one more recently .
I often see Pit Bull types  being walked in a town near me yet no-one seems to do anything about it .

I do not agree with this situation at all , but someone needs to do something to protect these innocent children and i don't know what the answer is .

I know where you're coming from.  But targetting people simply because they live in Government housing?  Seems a bit 'classist' (if that's a word! And if I have used it in context).
I, like you, don't know what the answer is.  :(

The two children who come to mind would still be alive if the adults around them had acted responsibly and pne in particular had stayed off the drugs.

If you look at the demographics of dog attacks, they paint a non so pretty picture.

It doesnt surprise me that they would consider this type of action. It would certainly work wonders for dogs reputations in the future by cutting out a lot of trouble. It would stop a lot of puppy farming if not all of it. Also dog cruelty would go down as would strays. But its mental. Educate the masses so as not to be so naive about the cuddly little cretin they have just got. It always seems to me that the correct approach to dog problems is always the last on the list. If its on it at all.

List of dog breeds that Council Tenants in Plymouth are/are not allowed to keep:
here
Bit of an eye-opener!

The lists of allowed and not allowed breeds when there is no exclusive garden seems a bit arbitrary?  There are certainly breed there that I would think unsuitable for a flat and others that are not allowed that would probably be OK.

Would help if they got the spelling of Japanese Tosa correct, never heard of a J. Tozer, is this a sleepy version.

> J. Tozer

Hehe

That list i though ok for those not allowed in properties without exclusive gardens, then saw the list that are, far too many breeds there that i wouldn't even dream of having without a garden - GSP for one..

Why would you not allow a Kooikerhondje or Puli, but allow a Toller or a Golden Retriever?
It makes you wonder what they know, or think they know, about breeds.

Chihua Hua (Long Coat)

another new breed???????, what about the smooth/short coat????????
Chris

Maybe an IQ test of some sort relating to dog care would benefit the dogs. I have seen owners who cant look after themselves never mind a dog. Generally the dogs are smarter and unfortunately the vast majority of these type owners live in council dwellings.

There was an example in Glasgow recently that didnt make the papers where a girl who has had 3 kids removed from her care over a 10 year period went and got a little black lab cross pup. The dog ran out in front of a car when only a few months old and got its leg broke. Nothing was done about the leg till it was too late, so the RSPCA amputated the leg for her. A couple of weeks later the dog was thrown from a council house window by the girl who is off her head on legally prescribed anti depressants. The window was 18 stories high.
Maybe the council have a point even if its the wrong one. Iknow the girl as she was my friends ex.

unfortunately the vast majority of these type owners live in council dwellings

Well i have heard some sweeping statements in my time but this one certainly wins the prize for most stupid! That is a disgusting & offensive remark to make quite frankly. Just because YOU know ONE person who is not fit to own a dog does not give you the right to tar all Council Tenants with the same brush.

Some of us low life Council Tenants are responsible dog owners thank you very much.

It was a rather sweeping statement, but I think the previous poster meant that most of the persons that are not very competent in life are most likely to be in social housing, not that all those in social housing are incompetent.

I live in ex-LA house as an owner occupier, but the area is about half and half, and all the flats are still LA let.

I think it is unfair to discriminate against people/breeds just because they live in a council house BUT where I live 90% of privately rented accommodation does not allow dogs whereas council housing still does.
It took us 5 months to find a place that allowed a dog and even now our tenancy agreement states ONE dog.
So really in a way I can not see why people kick a stink about council housing not allowing dogs when my experience is privately rented accommodation is like that already.Or is it like this just in my area?

the list of breeds allowed is just silly idea but would probably cut down some trouble in some areas...

Hello barbara. Not so Brainless as usual. Yes you interpreted correctly

Hello Flyball. I said most of these people live in council housing. Not all council house tenants are like that. You put you in this category not me.

That list from Plymouth is bl**dy ridiculous - you cant have a Collie (ok I can see collies in flats without an exclusive garden being a bad idea), but you can have an Aussie Shepherd, yes those are well known for being a low energy dog. You cant have an Affie (cos I am sure theres tons of problems with them, and Deerhounds too in council flats, heaving with them it is.... </sarcastic>) but you can have a Greyhound....

Did they just pick totally random breeds from a list, blindfolded on a friday afternoon after a long boozey lunch?...

Still the inefficiency and stupidity of local authorities should not suprise me... not at all!

I would like to say that back when the dda law was introduced I said that it wouldnt be long before they started on all sorts of breeds. Looks like we are getting to that point now. Next thing will be certain breeds not allowed on city streets. Its no wonder when you look at some of our rougher housing estates where teenagers as young as 10 and 12 are parading pitt bulls, rottys and all sorts of powerful dogs around the streets saying its for their own protection.
This is what I mean by most of these types are in social housing. What can we do?. Rehome the dogs?. Rehome the kids?. Put the parents to sleep?. The latter sounds good to me.
Our latest problem in my local town Dunoon which is 30 miles from me (Im a hill billy), is Am Bulls. Every ned has got one. The dogs look better nourished than the children if the council banned them it would be good for the area. Not good for the dogs or the sensible responsible owners, but Ive never known that to matter.
I know one guy who ended in court because an Am Bull attacked his collie while it was being paraded off lead with two well known local 15 year old thugs. While he was trying to stop the fight he was attacked by the two neds. The guy in question was a forestry worker and very fit and strong and beat the two thugs and their dog and was fined 300 quid for his effort. I would have given him a prize.
I do know why the councils are doing this, but its wrong. Its educate the daftys thats needed. Flog the little brats from 12 upwards, and allow us all to keep our chosen breeds instead of demonising pitt bulls/rottys/shepherds/etc etc etc. Its dangerous people that are the problem not dangerous dogs.
I live on a 4000 acre estate on the banks of loch fyne in argyll and I am lucky enough to be able to own my breeds without any form of prejudice. When you see a real working bully in with real cattle/bulls its a treat to see. Just like a shepherd with his sheepdogs.
I find those opposed to the APBT and ISBT are very ill informed and have probably never seen one work.   As Otterhound said. Its hype and bad press that the dont knows read and think they do know then judge each other with the faulty information.

How would that influence the puppy farmers? The biggest puppy farmer in Ireland if not Europe owns his own lands etc, he has over 700 breeding bitches and his puppies are even being sold in the UK, I think not too long ago there was an article about him on here. This guy is filthy rich on the backs of the animals and guess what ALL his dogs are IKC reg'd.

And most dogs who come into my rescue as APBT are everything but, usually Staffie x's. I had a ten year old child crying on the phone to me yesterday as his "cousint" gave him a dog and his parents let him keep it. I asked for the breed and he said "Staffie" I asked: Staffordshire Bullterrier? and the answer was: "No, Miss, he's a Staffie". Lord...give me patience.

By Mike the Bike (**) [gb] Date 20.01.10 18:51 GMT
Hello Flyball. I said most of these people live in council housing

Id be very interested to see your source to back this up. I trust you DO have one & are not just making unfounded assumptions? I didn't need to put 'myself' in any group, your sweeping statement did that for me.

By Brainless (*****) [gb] Date 20.01.10 18:18 GMT
It was a rather sweeping statement, but I think the previous poster meant that most of the persons that are not very competent in life are most likely to be in social housing, not that all those in social housing are incompetent

To be honest Barbara that sounds equally as sweeping & almost smacks of sheer snobbery if anything. There are also 'Incompetent' tenants with dogs who are are housed in the Private Sector and that can be backed with statistics from Private Landlords, yet for some reason i am unable to find any solid evidence to suggest that most of the persons that are not very competent in life are most likely to be in social housing.

> There are also 'Incompetent' tenants with dogs who are are housed in the Private Sector and that can be backed with statistics from Private Landlords, yet for some reason i am unable to find any solid evidence to suggest that most of the persons that are not very competent in life are most likely to be in social housing.

I agree that there are private tennants and home-owners that are not fit to look after a dog, but I must also agree that the yobbo-type element ('hoodie' with a dog for a weapon/status symbol) are generally in council/authority housing. As I grew up in a council house and now live in a housing association house, I am not having a go at people living in these types of home, but that generally is were the 'rif-raf' get housed (sadly, for the rest of us living along side these morons, we all get tarred with the same brush :( ).

Banning dogs from all council property is not the way forward and is completely unfair to the responsible dog owner. However, as the rules in my district have always been no dog (of any breed) in flats with a shared entrance , I see no harm in other counties doing that. (I've lived in a flat with a shared entrance and did not see it unfair for me to not be allowed to get a dog).

> i am unable to find any solid evidence to suggest that most of the persons that are not very competent in life are most likely to be in social housing.

Such persons are less likely to be in well paid jobs earning enough to buy their own homes.

Until the last few years (before Let to buy) apart from bed sits and student digs there was very little private rented accommodation, and most private landlords required references, employment etc, especially landlords with good quality housing to offer.

So the people that couldn't get any other housing would be put in social housing.

yes i was a bit gob smacked that this council seems it ok to have a Old English sheep dog in a flat, arnt they as big as a Rottie ,
and my bullys would be ok in a flat :-o , yeep sure thing i would have to have a very large flat to house my bully the way he loves to go skooting out into my garden when he's having one of his Dubie flerky moments, hes like a wrestler in a ring rebounding of my fences as he flys from one end of the garden to the other lol,

Old English sheepdogs only as big as a rotty until you wash it. Then its half the size.

ok thanks for that, i must say that its one breed i have not seen around my area at all,
what i have noticed is their has been a lot of Huskys they seem to be the new up and coming breed on the estates around here, i have to wonder if the people who are getting them Really know anything about what type of dog they are taking on,
a while ago i had a neighbour on our street asking me about them as they were thinking of getting one , i came here asked about them and i printed off some things to concider before taking on one, my neighbour in the end decided to go for another dog and got one from battersea in the end, but at least she looked into the breed before getting any dog i dont think many people do that round here i belive they go for what looks cool to them and sadly Huskys are the in thing around here now,
i see a young boy around 12 years old the otherday with a pup , he was walking with his mother and the boy was holding the dog when it see my bully it came running over to have a sniff and play but it dragged the boy and he let it go all while the boys mother just walked off leaving this young lad to try to get hold of the pup , god help them in a few months time :-( ,
i feel sorry for the dogs and cant help wonder about how many of these dogs will end up in Battersea dogs home in six months once the people who have them realize that they may have bitten off a little more than they can chew,

> Old English sheepdogs only as big as a rotty until you wash it. Then its half the size.

Only if you put them in on a hot cycle by mistake....

lol lol

would that be a little more than they can chow

lol yeah more than likely , I Think you get what I mean !, and you'd probebably word it a lot better than me!, after all Im just one of these Bods from these estates, only I Now happen to live in a house across the road from All of them on the estate and I understand and care for my dogs a lot more than most as my dogs are my family , iv always , even as a child had trouble relating to people And have Always been in better company with the dogs iv had growing up,i was last year at the age of 40 years old diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder , because of issues iv had even as a child that still bug me even more so today but because i speak my mind and wont conform to the lower standards that im ment to this council and the socioty around me find that i must be the one with problem,(and i have a boy whos 12 years old on thursday nxt week who was diagnosed with Autisum on the THAT DREADED DAY 9/11 ), and i honestly am just starting to think this goverment and its councils officals just love to lable us all,
May be im Wrong and its prob the BP talking , but i honestly belive that its everyone else in MY Society around me thats got the problem and not me or my son,

as all you lot on here seem to live in what I'd call normal areas with normal people, here i feel their are a lot of wierdos and my eldest sons been mugged 7 times in 4 years , i just think its all enough to drive anyone over the edge really,

I live in the middle of the OLD KENT ROAD (cheapest place on the monopaly board lol)
And may be you all can tell me is it Normal for your local Adsa store to have an African man in your Asda car park (who dont work for Asdas)with a clip board directing You where to park your car Cos he is saving parking places for the local African church goers ,

NOW IM made to feel like the bad girl because I cant park in asdas to do a shop today because im ushered out by the African church goers, if i complain (which i have done then im told im being Racist) lol , Even tho my OH is Black and my children mixed raced, i really dont give a toss what colour anyone is , as far as im concerened if you aint shopping at asdas then Dont park their cos i want to shop their and feel if i doin so i should at least be able to use their car park to do it, OHHHHH but not on a Sunday as its African pray day with 3 places of worship all withing 100feet of another , you ain got a hope in hell of moving around here on a sunday,

my African neighbours last night where playing musical cars with the limited spaces outside the houses in my road and one of their drunk friends came out to move a car that was parked behined mine then she moved another car in its place and as i have CCTV outside focased on my car because of previous damage to it by this lot , i caught her smashing into my parked car, i went out told her it was all on cctv she spat in my face and told me where to shove my cctv, (nice where i live isnt it :-(  ) my car now has a huge dent in the back and i know she shounld not even have been driving the car as it belongs to one of the sisters whose gone back to africa, police are bloody usless , honestly i feel i just cant wait to die really living around here its really the pits of the earth, ,

Anyway Am i Bipolar ? i really dont no, i think if you cant put up with the crap around here then you may well need to be labled as something, because the way people behave just is alot to handle at times and just does not seem resanable to me but then im the one whos ment to have the mentle problem lol, all i really want is a peaceful life with no hassles is that to much to ask?,,

estate life is for sure a lot harder than it ever used to be, half the thugs living around here dont have any parents watching them , their sent here to stay with relitives and offten end up alone, one of my sons muggers who got caught by police few years ago was 14 years old living here on his own cos mum and dad wher in their own country and an aunt was ment to be caring for the boy, only when they got to court did we find out NO ONE was responsable for this lad,,
this countrys gone mad and im one of those who they want to label cos i see the madness going on around me, but we are not ment to speak of it,

sorry for the boring rant just feeling very depressed at where i am right now , cant stop crying :-( sorry xx

Chelzeagirl, I hope that you are feeling much better this morning.  I think that most of us would feel the same in your situation.  Can you ask the council to move you?  Or isn't it that simple?

> Can you ask the council to move you?  Or isn't it that simple?

I have a couple living next to me who have been asking to move for the last 10 years (that I know of) They keep getting told that they are adequately housed and that there are no houses available for them. They are an elderly couple living in a 3 bedroom house wanting to move to a smaller place to let a family have a larger house. Moving houses is a right royal pain in the &*%$!

Chelzeagirl, Is there no way you can look for somewhere else? This can't be helping your health any. Though part of me wonders why you should have to move out of your home, the part of me that had neighbour problems tells me that the problem won't go away, and that your health will suffer. I came very close to a nervous breakdown with my previous neighbours and the way they treated me and my daughters. It was only thanks to the local police and the council listening that I got a move to a lovely 3 bedroomed house in the countryside.

Oh dear.....I was wondering where you were  :(
So sorry you are down at the moment, I have no advise for you but to keep posting at least it might help to get it off your chest a bit.
If there is anything positive I could do I would.

Karen  (((((hugs))))

sorry for the boring rant just feeling very depressed at where i am right now , cant stop crying  sorry xx

Where you live sounds like hell on earth, I would have no hair left! I guess yours is not the only story of good people stuck in a place like this and being tarred with the same brush.  I have no answers just a (((hug))) You know reading your posts on the other thread your trying aren't you, your doing courses and doing the best that you can, keep doing that, education (even though you didn't believe them at school :-) ) is the way to better your life to get a good job and give yourself the tools to move away from places like this.

Otherwise it's the lottery, 85 million on Friday, if I win I'll buy you a nice house hun. :-) That's a promise. Second thoughts stick with the courses probably have a better chance. :-D

Keep trying things always change for those who try.