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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / ULTRASOUND VERSUS XRAY
- By 10967 [ca] Date 17.08.05 18:12 UTC
My bitch is due in 1 week or so.  I had her in for an ultrasound at day 35, the vet said she would have a minimum 5 pups.  It was an amazing site as we saw the little arms and legs stretching.  That was my first experience with US, I usually just do an xray at 55 days to do a head count.  Well I took her to a different vet for an xray yesterday and all we could see was a very full baldder, a very full intestine and 2 heads and 2 spines!  I was so upset he said he would be surprised to see anymore than 2 pups being born  I told him that we saw minimum 5 at 35 days, so where did they go?  Since her belly was full of urine and stool is it possible that the other pups were hiding?  I might go to my other vet who is more experienced in this and do another xray.  has anyone had more pups than seen on a xray?
Thanks Linda
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 17.08.05 18:21 UTC
The advent of ultrasound was very useful at proving what breeders had suspected for very many years - that many conceived whelps are reabsorbed.
- By inca [gb] Date 17.08.05 19:16 UTC
due to the fact we had a good sized bitch in whelp who lost weight in week 7 then produced one pup ( stillborn ) my vet and i have discussed an xray next time after day 57 to do a headcount to try and avoid any problems
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 17.08.05 19:38 UTC
This is why I don't do either, I think the bitch goes through enough without all this intervention.  But there again I'm very old fashioned for such a young un :d  I've always known when a bitch is pregnant and when one is not, maybe I'm lucky I don't know.
- By Anwen [gb] Date 17.08.05 20:07 UTC
Me too - from a not-so-young-un :D
- By koopy [gb] Date 18.08.05 08:42 UTC
I would'nt have xrays or ultrasounds done if my bitch was ever pregnant,think nature should take its course and what comes comes
- By kelly mccoy [us] Date 18.08.05 15:03 UTC
nature can very very cruel...if you x-ray them you will know how many she is going to have and it will be less stressful than worrying whether there is a retained puppy.not an uncommon and possibly fatal occurence
- By spanishwaterdog [gb] Date 18.08.05 16:19 UTC
In 30 years I've never had a bitch that has had a pup left!!

X-rays and scans don't always tell the full story although x-rays are more fool proof.  The people that I know that do this, test their dogs for different things etc. are the ones that have had problem births.

None of this was done 15 - 20 years ago and I don't remember the dogs having half the problems that they seem to have these days.
- By 10967 [ca] Date 19.08.05 19:28 UTC
Well she is due any day now, I'll be sure to let everyone know what happens.  The vet has offered another xray for free but I don't want to stress her out, I am going to let nature take its course, and if she has 4 and still didn't deliver the 5th then taking her in for an emergency xray if she still is showing signs of labour, then I can justify doing the xray. Thanks for all the replys! 
- By kelly mccoy [us] Date 19.08.05 20:14 UTC
i know of at least three cases where inexperienced owners did not realize there were still puppies inside ..needless to say by the time they figured it out it was way too late,,,,,uterine inertia is certainlly not uncommon
- By LucyD [gb] Date 20.08.05 05:52 UTC
Aren't x-rays dangerous for dogs or humans because of the radiation?

My friend advocates the method mentioned once of looking at the bitch when stretched to put paws up on someone. I visited last night and she is 95% convinced her bitch is pregnant at only 2 weeks after mating. I hope she's right because she's been trying with that one for nearly 3 years!!! Also all her other dogs and bitches, and my dog, are convinced she is still in season even after having been washed and sprayed with bitch spray, and pregnant bitches often smell like in season bitches.

Her vet is also good at the careful feeling of foetuses technique, so she's going to do that too!
- By kelly mccoy [us] Date 20.08.05 13:17 UTC
Radiography
Radiographic imaging (X-ray) of the abdomen is most accurate for determining pregnancy during the last trimester (43 to 63 days after ovulation). After 42 days, the fetal skulls and spines are visible on radiographs. As pregnancy advances, the bones of the front legs become visible, followed by the bones of the rear legs, the pelvis and the ribs. Finally, the fetal teeth become visible around 56 to 61 days after ovulation.
Prior to 40 days, the enlarging uterus may be visible on radiographs, but it may appear very much like the surrounding intestines. The contents of the pregnant uterus may be difficult to distinguish from an abnormal non-pregnant uterus before fetal skeletons develop. The physical and medical condition of the bitch will help to identify a diseased or a healthy pregnant uterus.

As the pregnancy nears its end, the number of fetuses can be determined radiographically by counting fetal skulls. Brachycephalic breeds (English bulldogs, Boston terriers, boxers, etc.) have an increased risk for difficult deliveries due to the size and shape of the fetal skulls. Radiographic evaluations late in pregnancy will determine if the fetuses are developed sufficiently (teeth visible) to survive and whether or not a cesarean section should be performed.
- By 10967 [ca] Date 23.08.05 02:46 UTC
Hello everyone,
Didn't sleep at all for the last 24hours...Asia delivered 1 stillborn puppy at 2:00am then with 4 hours going by and no pups and no contractions, we wanted to be sure, so we took her in to  emergency hospital and had her xrayed.  Looks like at some time after the ultrasound she has absorbed the remaining pups.  We are devastated that this has happened never lost a whole litter before. I will now spend some time researching why this happens in order to avoid this ever happening again.  Any thoughts or experiences would greatly be appreciated. 
Linda
- By Brainless [gb] Date 23.08.05 04:38 UTC
It has always been suspected, but not until ultrasound has it been proved that litters are absorbed up to about 6 weeks of pregnancy.  the causes can be guessed at, but would include anything causing the death of the pups, which could include infection, inbalance of the hormones designed to keep a pregnancy viable, poor placental development.  Anything really that would cause a miscarriage in a human child.  I suppose the reason for absorbtion of dead pups is to save loosing a whole litter where only some were affected.  Canine Herpes Virus may be responsible or some ofther infection quite late to cause the loss of a whlole litter.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / ULTRASOUND VERSUS XRAY

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