ive gt a bulldog cross collie four and half month old pup, hes locked in kitchen in day when were working but out all weekend and eenings but he constantly bites and nips us and and anything he can gt his hands on weve shouted isolated him verything you can think of but still he persists any help would be appreciated? also he was paper trained but has now started going wherever he feels like all over the house any ideas on how to get him to go outside? many thanks.

Am not that surprised really, a collie even a collie cross requires loads of attention and exercised and to be imprisoned in the kitchen all week would may him stir crazy I would think. Do you leave him with loads of toys and things like stuffed kongs, and does the person who calls in to feed and let him out to toilet during the day take time to play with him and take him for a walk?

Who is toilet training him? If he is not being trained he goes all over the home because he does not know any better, he also thinks the kitchen is home so the rest of the house is where you let rip and relive your self. Dogs do not know how to behave to suit human way of live they need to be trained, has this been done or is that what you need help with. If it has not it is not the pups fault it is yours, dogs must be trained to do as we wish if they don't know what is expected of them they can't possible behave as we wish.

What you describe is perfectly normal behaviour for a young untrained pup - and I'm afraid it won't improve until someone spends time with him, training him. Dogs aren't born understanding that they must adapt their natural behaviour to fit our lifestyle - they need to be taught. Puppies shouldn't be left unattended for more than an hour or two at a time.

He needs to be taken outside after every meal (at his age he needs three meals a day) after every drink, after every play and after every sleep. He needs two or three 5-minute training sessions daily apart from his walks so that he can learn what behaviour is expected of him. Without this input from you he'll just grow up almost feral and not a companion.

thanks for the quick replies well hes fed at 7 am and the taken for a 15 min walk then hes left at 8 am til 3.30pm when hes fed again and let out back in the garden, sometimes there is somebody in all day but mainly not until half three, when hes left alone hes left with plenty of toys etc then hes fed at 8pm and walked for about half hour to an hour, if its impossible to train him due to not being home then maybe its best if we was to get rid of him? :(

Has this been the programme since you had him?

His wayward behaviour when you're home is the only way he can relieve the boredom of being isolated and lonely for many hours (dogs are social animals and isolation is a terrible thing for them) - he needs to use up all the stored energy from the day which under normal circumstances would be relieved little and often, and so he gets over-excited and over-tired and hyper, just like a toddler.

He can't be expected to not need to relieve himself from 8am till 3.30 - that's 7½ hours! How often do you go to the toilet during that time? He's a puppy with a small bladder and will need to go much more frequently, maybe every half an hour. To get him housetrained he needs someone to teach him to go outside each time, and that means having someone there with him each time. Every time he has to relieve himself indoors is a step back. Dogs don't and can't train themselves - it's all down to owner-effort, and it all takes a lot of time.

To be honest if you haven't the time to train him yourself, the alternatives are to employ a dog-sitter to come in every couple of hours to keep him company and train him for you, or rehoming.

it has been the programme since ive had him yes is the basic training when he starts to go toilet to take him into garden and treat him?

Was someone with him all day for the first month or so, and have you had him clean in the house and now he has started to soil, or has he never been clean?

no i was with him all the time for the first week or so hes on his own for 7 hours on monday tuesday thursday and friday most weeks depends if im on nights or days, he has been papaer trained but all of a sudden it went out the window i think its where he gets excited when we come in and he doesnt want to leave the room were in hes good as gold at weekends when im with him all day.

Unfortunately for you it takes more than a week to train a puppy to be clean and respect your home, 7 hours on his own is too much he is only a baby and needs to be able to relieve himself about every hour and also needs feeding more frequently. That is to say nothing of the lack of company and stimulation, think your only way forward is to find someone to look after you pup when you are not there or if the pups breeder is near at hand perhaps they would take him whilst you are not at home.

hmm ok thanks for that going to have to try and sort something out no chance of breeder though hes in chippenham im in cheltenham about an hour away lol had a really good day with the pup today been amazingly well behaved didnt take too kindly to the lawn mower tho lol!!!

May be a neighbour could help, he is too young to be left that long on his own and even when older he may become destructive without stimulation so making an arrangement with a neighbour may be the best way to deal with the problem. 

then maybe its best if we was to get rid of him? 

sorry dont mean to sound harsh but i really think people should consider their working hours before they buy a puppy.. i think anyone would realise leaving a puppy for 7 hours even 3 days a week really wouldnt be in theres or the puppys best intrests??

> then maybe its best if we was to get rid of him?

Quite agree minni,

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but WHY ON EARTH  did you get a dog? Only to leave it alone ALL DAY?? Several days a week???

Please, please, think carefully about the consequences - this is neglect bordering on cruelty!!

Well done for posting here, because people always give good advice -

You could look for a local doggie daycare, where you could drop off before work...
You could look for a local dog walker/trainer to take your dog out at say 11 O'clock and 1 O'clock.
You could put a notice in your local shop for someone to come in.

Your puppy needs company, training, exercise, feeding and play in the course of every day, as well as meeting people and other dogs. Please please be a responsible and loving owner and give him what he needs.
Also, it would be great to join a local dogtraining class, you and your dog can have fun together, very important!

Please don't be offended, I really do want the best for you and your dog.
PS Don't forget to get pet insurance, vets are horribly expensive and puppies are accident-prone!

Hi Everyone

Just wondering how everyone else copes in this situation?
Not being rude or anything but doesnt everyone need to work?

and if we dont work how do we survive? And how do we feed the dogs without money? We dont want to claim off the state unless special circumstances(we get seriously ill)
hence why we work to survive and be independant and responsible british citiezens.

Just because you work does not mean you cant have a dog!! Watch the DOG WHISPERER amazing programme!! Go on his website, go to http://www.leerburg.com another amazing webpage for simple advice!!

If you rehome how do you know they go to loving families and how do you know they will get rehomed? The statistics are so high for putting dogs down in this situation please think wisely please...

Im just really curious to how everyone else copes? Everyone has to work right??????

As we have a puppy aged nearly 5 months 2 weeks now and he is totally
fine when left alone infact he sleeps all the time!!! 

Then when he see's us yes he is excited obviously but you control that with simple commands ie sit as soon as u see him make him disciplined. Then he wont be as excited as soon as u walk in!!

You see its a trick you walk into house shout out sit and by the time u see him he should be sitting wagging his tale and bottom excitedly but sitting only then u say Hi calmy!!works with our cavalier perfect! Make sure u take him for a good RUN get out all his stored energy he will be fine after...

Leave the TV on loud when you leave him , a dog walker for afternoon is a very very good idea aswell!!!!

As for the potty training this should have been implemented as soon as you got the puppy , My sister was home with my dog for a few weeks so he was trained. Its never too late tho but you need to constantly supervise for a few weeks if you cant do this crate train. look on web has loads of info on this even kennel club has it.

The puppy training class we go to on thursdays EVERYONE thats (10 familys=10 puppys) all work full time ie 6-7 hours a day they all have puppy pens or crate training and everyone leaves fresh water and all their dogs are fine aswell. Infact very obediant.  Training is A must!!!!

We dont leave our dog in a puppy pen he has the whole lounge/sofas everything :) to himself , we have covered up all wires and put all remotes/phones/magazine/plants high up so he cant reach them. 

We come home to a perfect house no mess no distruction thank god our dog is so obediant, YES he can be crazy he is a puppy just like a kid but he is fine it can work our dog and the other dogs at training classes and all the dogs on all the t.v programmes are good examples of how you can leave your dog sensibly.

Dont tie the dog up or leave outside or no water thats neglect thats CRUEL, leave with love you will come home to love :)

P.s Gaurd dogs get left alone all day everyday worser still OUTSIDE.  Thats cruel i think.

luv gumi x

> And how do we feed the dogs without money?

the same way people manage to stay home to look after thier children and feed them without the need to 'claim off the state'. Shift juggling between partners, family support, dog sitters etc..

I think evereyone would agree that the most important time for training/socialisation/house training for any dog should happen during puppyhood, and this takes time & constistency - very hard to impliment when the pup is alone for 8 hours a day (then if you take into account the family would be asleep for 8 hours a day, thats 16 hours out of every 24 that the pup is on it's own).

Guard dogs are not the same as pet dogs, a guard dog is doing a job and would probably be more happy doing that than a pet dog in solitary confinement all day.

Gumi, you yourself highlight the reason it's not a good idea to leave a puppy all day:

> My sister was home with my dog for a few weeks so he was trained.

I personally work from home and have waited until my children are 8 & 9 years old before getting a puppy, because I know that the more time you can give to your puppy, the better the dog is going to be as an adult. My pup is 9 months old now and I wouldn't leave him alone for more than 2 hours (shopping), any longer than this and I would get a family member to dog-sit (arrangements made prior to getting pup).

>leave with love you will come home to love

This is a really nice idea, but unfortunately, love wont keep a puppy company all day and it certainly wont help teach it any rules. If love was enough to raise a puppy then nobody would ever enounter a problem.

I am not having a go at the OP, plenty of suggestion have been made for them to help out, but I had to challenge the notion that it is fine to get a puppy knowing that it will be left alone allday :(

> ive gt a bulldog cross collie four and half month old pup, hes locked in kitchen in day when were working but out all weekend and eenings but he constantly bites and nips us and and anything he can gt his hands on weve shouted isolated him verything you can think of but still he persists any help would be appreciated? also he was paper trained but has now started going wherever he feels like all over the house any ideas on how to get him to go outside? many thanks.

Hi,
Seems to me you have two major problems.

First collie's or Collie x, naturally nip it's in their temperament that's why the breed is used to round up sheep. If they are kept as pets they need alot of exercise. They also have huge abouts of energy, I would suggest 2 hours a day minimum!!!! You still have teething to go through!

Second a puppy can not control it's bladder fully till at least 16 weeks, some one needs to be there to house train puppy. A puppy is only as good as it's training allows. I'm sorry no puppy should be left allow 8 hours. :-(

> First collie's or Collie x, naturally nip it's in their temperament that's why the breed is used to round up sheep. If they are kept as pets they need alot of exercise. They also have huge abouts of energy, I would suggest 2 hours a day minimum!!!! You still have teething to go through!
>

Border Collies do not naturally nip anymore than any other untrained puppy. As for exercise, if you only give them physical exercise even to the extent of 2 hours a day you will only end up with a very fit tireless hooligan. It should also be remembered young puppies should not be over excersized

> Not being rude or anything but doesnt everyone need to work?

No  

or if I do go out I pay someone to look after my dogs.
No website will be able to tell you how to stop a puppy peeing for 7hours!!! Unless you get it stuffed.

Sorry Satincollie,

Should have written more, I try and keep it short and too the point.

I should have said, different breeds have different temperaments, depending on what job they were origonally intended for ie, the fields and herding, shooting and retreving, guarding, searching etc. Many breeds have working and show types within the breed, border collies and springer spaniels being two of them.

All puppies of all breeds nip and bit as this is how they play with their siblings, before leaving for a new home. It is up to the new owner to train the puppy. Not just to house train puppy which often takes weeks, but to to train puppy to be sociable to both humans and other dogs, what is excepted and what isnt! The most important time is puppies first 6 months, hence people should be aware before buying any puppy of any breed the time it requires to educate and train.

About of exercise is not just physical but mental. As an adult some breeds require more exercise than others. Puppies should be exercised for short times both menatlly and physically. Physically by walking and metally by training. Some breed are easier to train than others. When I spoke of length of exercise I should have made it obvious and clear I was taking of adults.

NO PUPPY SHOULD BE LEFT FOR 8 HOURS.

I repeat a dog is only as good as the trainer. :-)

>Not being rude or anything but doesnt everyone need to work?

usually - and if they do they make sure that their dog is looked after in their absence, just as they do for their baby.

Nobody has an automatic right to own a dog - or any animal for that matter. It's a responsibility and a privilege; if they can't make adequate arrangements for its care (and leaving a pup alone for several hours isn't adequate) then they wait until their circumstances improve.

> Shift juggling between partners, family support, dog sitters etc..
>

yep. my bf and i will be changing shifts so at max boyo will be on his own for 5 hours (adult dog)

my dads going to come in to toilet him and keep him company during this time as well so say 2 or 3 hours without people

if it goes above that kind of time period for any reason we will hire a dog sitter to come in.

simple really.

i refer to my earlier post its plain to see you (the owner) is stressed with the dog and its plain to see the dog is stressed being left alone for so long.. i totally agree with jeangenie.. NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO OWN A DOG-OR ANY ANIMAL FOR THAT MATTER. ITS A RESPONSIBILITY AND PRIVILEGE.... no-one would leave a baby for seven hours alone in a kitchen so why is it right to leave a puppy?

It is really tough when you want a dog but go out to work all day.  I had this problem and gave it a lot of thought, we got an older dog (Robyn) who was happy to be left for a few hours, found a lovely lady who would go round and walk Robyn for half an hour at lunchtime then I'd get home at 3.30. You really should see if you can find someone to help you with your puppy, it's not fair to expect a dog to learn about housetraining if you aren't there to teach it.  Exercise should be short and fairly regular to teach lead walking etc. Please for the dog's sake and your sanity have a re-think and if you come to the conclusion that re-homing is the best option please go through one of the recognised dog agencies rather than selling the dog on.

I TOTALLY AGREE with what you all say you wouldnt leave a baby so why leave a puppy?

Yes PUPPY Should not be left on its own for long at the beginning whilst in training mode and a walker, afternoon feeder and sitter is a great idea,We had my sister to stay with puppy and also mum comes home to feed him lunchtime and run around with him which i should have mentioned.

My point was just to answer to the point about working and not being able to have a dog. You can have both as people have stated , change shifts and get help.

masstifflover you spoke nicely juggling is definately the answer team work as a family aswell helps.

We  all train gizzy mornings for two hours then evenings all evening,its like gizzy knows his routine so well and if by any chance his routine is broken yes he plays up by crying and chasing his tale.

This bit about guard dogs well our cousins neighbour has a guard dog alsation. He is not happy he waits for his owner so much, he just lays there all day its sad, he has no socialisation skills, and he gets only a 15 min play time with owner a day if that.... Lucky my cousin plays with him weekends else this dog would go mad.....  I have seen the state of the poor dog he has to stay out in the cold, wind rain , its awful..........  its not nice....

> This bit about guard dogs well our cousins neighbour has a guard dog alsation. He is not happy he waits for his owner so much, he just lays there all day its sad, he has no socialisation skills, and he gets only a 15 min play time with owner a day if that.... Lucky my cousin plays with him weekends else this dog would go mad.....  I have seen the state of the poor dog he has to stay out in the cold, wind rain , its awful..........  its not nice....

I was thinking more along the lines of a professional guard dog, (eg. securley tethered on night watch at a business premises) not a pet dog that is left outside and given the label for status. A trained guard dog is not like your average pet dog. It is also against the law to leave a dog alone loose if it is a 'guard dog'.

(1) A person shall not use or permit the use of a guard dog at any premises unless a person ('the handler') who is capable of controlling the dog is present on the premises and the dog is under the control of the handler at all times while it is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.
(2) The handler of a guard dog shall keep the dog under his control at all times while it is being used as a guard dog at any premises except:
(a) while another handler has control over the dog; or
(b) while the dog is secured so that it is not at liberty to go freely about the premises.
quote from :http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/dogs.htm

I may be wrong, but I think your cousins neigbour wants a 'macho' dog for status and simply can't be bothered/doesn't know how to look after a dog. IMO, people like this are responsible for a lot of dog bite incidents :(

Hi
You know that was great info which i have passed on!
so lets see the outcome!!

Thanks

gumi, glad I didn't cause offence :)

i agree with gumi, as i am 16 and i go to college from 8-3 and my mum works from 8-6, we leave our puppy (7 months old) by him self, but we got him at christmas so had time to toilet train and my sis had time of uni for a few months, and ive found that wen wer at home on a week day he sleeps most of the day and i think people need to rember thers a big difference between a dog an a baby
harvey

> i think people need to rember thers a big difference between a dog an a baby

very true, you can put a nappy on a baby untill it is old enough to learn how to use the toilet!