Well we are in the fourth week of coughing - I never imagined this would go on so long.  I took Meg to the vets at the beginning of the week because the cough was getting worse not better (although there had been some improvement at the end of the first week) The vet heard her cough as she got out of the car and thought it was likely to be kennel cough.  Her chest sounded clear.  I mentioned lungworm because we had foxes in the garden all the time in our last place.  She said if the cough didn't clear up then she would have to investigate further.  She gave Meg some antibiotics which finish tomorrow.  Apart from the cough Meg is fine - shiny coat, good appetite, clean eyes and always ready for her walk.  This week we have really taken it quietly though but she is still coughing and sneezing at all times of the day.   Has anyone else had this going on for so long?  Is this normal for a vaccinated dog?

How old is Meg?  I'm afraid when my dog's "kennel cough" did not clear up an xray revealed an enlarged heart but on from that she is still going strong over 2 years later with the support of medication.

She is only 3 - 4 in May.   She did actually cough up some phlegm last weekend - nothing since. 

Hi ceejay,

vaccination only covers a short period for KC and only the commonest strain :(  KC can last several weeks if the dog has otherwise compromised health or goes on to develop a secondary infection.

I would be concerned re possible lung worm - easily picked up from garden snails or anything they've been in contact with.  Apparently it is becoming more common and I would not be holding back on my vet investigating the cause of your dog's lengthy period of coughing.  Lung worm can be treated with Panacure among other things - the sooner the better.

I can understand Isabel's remarks as coughing can be related to heart problems - your vet should be checking this too.

In the meantime I'd restrict exercise to brief lead walks for toilet purpose only and prevent exuberant play indoors - exercise aggrivates the coughing.

regards Teri

Thanks Teri - so is it unusual for couging to go on for over three weeks?  She seems a bit better tonight - Haven't actually heard her cough since I came in.  She has finished her antibiotics now and the vet said to bring her back for further investigation if it continues.  I asked about lungworm because they have the infomation on posters in the surgery.  She said that it is more prevalent in West Wales but is spreading - it is not so common here in Glamorgan.  I had asked whether normal worming tablets (which I was buying at the same time) would prevent lungworm and she was good enough to come back out and explain that it would take about a week's worth of panacur to get rid of it.  Will see whether she coughs again tomorrow morning.

Hi ceejay,

I'd say in a one dog household that 3 weeks is too long - with multiple dogs it can occasionally last a little longer as they tend to re-infect one another although conversely not all will show symptoms at all - KC is a bit of an enigma really, much the same as most virus.

Although lungworm may be more prevalent in some areas than others I'd personally not be satisfied with that as a reason for not investigating and/or treating for it - but that's just me :)  I have lots of wildlife and the yucky slimey things gathering in and around my garden and all exercise areas - can't say I've noticed any with a Welsh accent but there are warning notices re lungworm at my vet practice (part of a group almost nationwide, except Wales funnily enough LOL)

Have you been restricting her exercise - play/activity at all during the recovery period?  If not then start now and hopefully as the cough may be slowly going this will assist the recovery too.

I also give any of mine who develop KC some baby cough suspension - like Benylin non drowsy or Tixylicks however not if on ABs or any other meds.  Perhaps you could ask your vet if it would be OK to go down this route with your girl  :)

Hope she's on the road to recovery - give her a gently hug from me.
best wishes, Teri

Just been reading a thread from earlier this year where a poster said that South Wales is bad for lungworm - which is not what the vet said.  Meg has eaten fox poo on a number of occasions - I have never seen her eat slug or snails.  She does eat grass too.   She had a cough a couple of months ago and this went away in a few days.  She had been in kennels then so thought it was kennel cough then.  If she stops coughing now does it mean it was probabally kennel cough or could she still have lungworm?  Off to do some more research.

If the cough goes now I'd say the likely culprit was kennel cough - rife around the country at the moment so with your vet's experience of what illnesses s/he is seeing with any regularity s/he should be able to make the most accurate assessment.

That said, because lung worm IS becoming more commonly heard of, I would rather treat for it than not but as I've said before that is just me :)  I'd sooner go down the route of the most likely first, i.e. KC, after say a max of 2 weeks with no sign of being gone then lung worm but I've had a lot of snails/slugs in the gardens this year and a pup who is obsessed with them ..... :-p

We hadn't restricted exercise in the first two weeks - in fact my husband was taking her down to the beach and throwing the ball in the water for her.  I had asked him to ease off because she was coughing but of course he knew best!  When her cough got worse I was just lead walking.  Trouble is being a collie she doesn't want to take it easy.  I would say today her cough is less - she coughed when she got out of bed this morning and when she started pulling on the lead.   Will see how she is tomorrow.   I have been worried because we had a fox regularly in the garden - Meg even chased it one morning.  I put a photo of it in the fun dog show for a while because it was sitting in the sun just outside the kitchen window as bold as brass.  Close contact like this is such a risk.  Can cat's get it? 

I'd say in a one dog household that 3 weeks is too long

I thought 3 weeks was pretty standard for the coughing to continue (not necessarily the phlegm being thrown up, that normally stops very quickly usually by the end of the first week at least). It has been known to go on for well over a month in one dog according to my vet.  She always compares it to flu & colds that hit humans differently.  Some get it, some don't, some get over it really quickly, others take a lot longer.  Ceejay, I would pick up the phone to a vet (not necessarily your own) & just ask for some advice.  Most vets will give over the phone advice on hypothetical questions without charging to see the dog (well the nice ones anyway ;-))

Hope she's better soon.  As for the fox, not sure whether they carry the viruses for KC or not sorry.

thanks for the reassurance Maddog - it was the fear of lungworm that has caused me to post - with the close proximity of foxes in our old place.  That is the one thing that a vet may be able to confirm - we moved 4 months ago - I don't know whether she has eaten fox poo since - although she ate something down by the river one day I am more willing to bet it was squirrel poo because she didn't smell afterwards.  Can lungworm manifest itself 3 months later?  I have a feeling that the answer could be yes. 

It's increasingly common to blame the growth of population in foxes for every ailment known to canine kind - in certain cases yes, their increased presence has a bearing but they're not responsible for a fraction of what they're blamed for :)

Lung worm is commonly passed on by dog faeces and the common garden slug/snail.  Dogs eating either of these or chewing on toys or bones or sticks or plastic bottles whatever else is around overnight in a garden or park that may have been in contact with slugs or snails are classic ways of lung worm being picked up - for the average pet dog the risks are therefore fairly high, particularly since our damp summer months through autumn were an ideal breeding ground for increased snail population nationwide.

Lung worm is treatable, usually by around 10 days of panacure granules or similar - routine worming may, but wont necessarily, prevent lung worm but it wont cure it if already present.  It has to be treated separately.  If untreated lungworm can be fatal.

I can't possibly say if your dog has lungworm and presumably your vet thinks it unlikely since you've raised the issue and not been provided with meds to ensure it's killed off however it is better to know the facts of the disease rather than assume that if a dog hasn't eaten fox or squirrel poo it can't be infected....

ETA

>Can lungworm manifest itself 3 months later?  I have a feeling that the answer could be yes. 

Yes, as with any parasite left untreated, it multiplies and symptoms will vary dog to dog both in how rapidly they appear and how serious the signs. 

How about cats?  Is it likely that they can pick it up too and pass it on in their faeces?  Meg has probabally eaten more cat poo then anything else (lovely dog that she is)  She never seems tempted by dog poo though. 

I don't know - but snails will crawl over anything and from what I've been told it is these otherwise innocent (but revolting!) creatures that we should be more wary of :)  If your dog's mouth has been in contact either directly with a snail or anything a snail has been directly in contact with then there is a risk.

THIS SITE may be helpful - haven't had time to check it out for you :)

This is the same thing isn't it?  http://www.ivis.org/advances/Parasit_Bowman/conboy_angiostrongylosis/ivis.pdf

From a quick glance I'd say no - I have that paper and it covers a european worm which is different to the lungworm I've mentioned.  Lungworm can and does affect the heart just that this, AFAIK, is a different organism.

From memory I have a link somewhere explaining the difference between them or maybe it's on another IVIS newsletter - I will try and find it :)

regards, Teri

This is the original article I found -http://www.greendale.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=129&Itemid=34
what I have learnt is that dogs can pick it up from drinking from puddles etc - something Meg is also dreadful at - she sips water all the time from all sorts of places.   The worm needs to go through the slug stage for development and that is when it is ingested into the body not directly from eating faeces  - however there are often slugs eating the faeces so can be ingested when the dog eats that.   I must get time to phone the vet - I don't know where today went and I just keep hoping that she will stop coughing - but she has still coughed again today.

Just an update - came home today and let Meg out into the garden.  She started coughing again - so I phoned to speak to the vet who said that there are all sorts of viruses about at the moment but to be on the safe side she is going to treat her for lungworm (don't know if my query was logged the other day but I didn't mention it first and it was a different vet)  I am picking up the treatment in the morning and then if she is still coughing after 10 days I will have to take her for a chest x-ray.  Feel happier that she is to be treated - she was due for her worming tablets anyway.

Hi ceejay,

whoops, meant to get back to this, apologies!

I'm sorry to hear that Meg's still under the weather but good news your vet is being proactive about the possibilities of lungworm :)  Please keep us posted.

best wishes, Teri

Hi again ceejay

just flicking through my club newsletter which arrived this afternoon and coincidentally there is some info on lungworm mentioning that it's often mistaken for KC as symptoms include lethargy, exercise intolerance and chronic cough.

There's also a part in it which refers to a case where a dog badly infected with lung worm had chronic heart problems and was treated with vi@gra - the drug relaxed blood vessels to the heart and lungs which were narrowed and fibrous due to the lungworm infection and on top of treating the lung worm the dog has now fully recovered :)

There's also a previous forum thread HERE which I remembered about which you may find useful :)

regards, Teri

Yes thanks Teri I saw that one.  Have spent hours trawling articles to see whether I can diagnose it myself - it's impossible really - if she hadn't been vaccinated against KC then she might have had full blown symptoms that would have confirmed it.  The other dogs that have come into contact with her have not gone down with KC as far as I know - but then we don't always catch other people's viruses either after contact - depends on individual immunity.  My other worry has been my grandchildren.  I have always kept worming up to date but this is something that I wasn't prepared for.  The vet said that the risk was less then with other worms.

At last her cough seems to have lessened - I haven't heard her all day although my husband said she coughed on the lead (when she pulled) This is the second day of her worming treatment so it seems that it was kennel cough all along.  I will complete the treatment however.  The vet said that I would need no other treatment until she is due for her drontal again in 3 months but the receptionist said that it does not treat tapeworm - with a dog that eats poo I will need to worm again with something for tape worm before then.  Fancy that - the receptionist knows more than the vet!  

I can say I dont know much about lungworm...its not to common on the east coast of the United States!!!  But I can tell you that some cases of kennel cough can be a bitch!!  We just had one puppy who had it for about 2 months!!  I don't know what antibiotic you were give or the dose, but I would say that Kennel cough should be treated for at least two weeks.  As far as exposure, the kennel cough is like the flu, you can have the vaccine but with all the strains...chances are...you can still get the flu.  And I guess it is possible to contracted kennel cough from a fox seeing that they are members of the canine family.  Also you have to keep in mind that you could have come in contact with a dog that was not showing symptoms but was shedding virus, and you could have easily taken it home with you!!  Keep up with the antibiotics, if no change, ask for a chest rad, to rule out an enlarged heart as someone else mentioned, or the beginnings of pnuemonia.  Also I dont know if heartworm is found in Europe, but if it is and you have not been giving prevention, it cant hurt to test for that as well.  Hope this helped!!

I would like to think that it was just kennel cough because she now is down to coughing about once a day when she gets excited - that is 4 weeks and 4 days now!  If it had been lungworm then she would have continued to cough in between - that is my reasoning anyway.   Will never know now but thankfully the cough does seem to be on it's way out at last. 

we have had pups with lungworm recently and they didn't actually cough a lot. Panacur is the treatment we were given 7 day course , with a further 7 day course after a few days break. Vet told us that you can't overdose with panacur, and even if it was not lungworm , it wouldn't cause any harm.