Last week my Leo, who is normally a happy, boisterous, bouncy 15mth old, became very lethargic.  He's literally slept all day, turned his nose up at food, and has barely wagged his tail for 7 days.  After 2 days he started with diarreoh, on the 3rd day I took him to the vets.  He had blood tests (minor abnormalities but not pointing to anything in particular),and an ECG (slightly enlarged heart and raised beat rate but nothing that particularly worried the vet).  He was given an anti sickness injection, and some rehydration powers.  On the 5th day he had showed no improvement so I took him back again (with a feaces sample), again he was given anti-sickness injection, rehydration fluids and a shot of penicillin.  That evening he perked up - not his usual self but a definite improvement - so I was hopeful.  However, I've had to rush him back to the vets this morning as he was really poorly again.  They've put him on a drip, taken more bloods, and have said the next step is a chest xray (if we have no joy with the next set of test results), but I don't like the idea of them knocking him out when he's so weak.

Anyway, I'm absolutely worried sick, and just wondered if anyone had any advice/ideas/suggestions/words of reassurance!?!

I am so sorry to hear that your boy is poorly, I don't have any advice other than I hope you find out very soon exactly what it is and he makes a full and speedy recovery.  Just a question, has he recently had a booster or worming tablets?
Keeping everything crossed for him.

I had a similar problem with a 18th month old newfie a few years ago , he would not eat ,was  repeatedly sick and had horrid bowl movements , we had injections tablets etc , he went down hill ended up on a drip etc , they xrayed hilm and found a peice of rubber in his gut from a dog toy , it was removed and he was fine , I hope your boy gets better soon

hugs and woofs 

Thanks for your quick responses.

He was wormed about 4 weeks ago and is due his booster later this month.  His temperature is normal, and he shows no discomfort when having his stomach manipulated by the vet.  He did have a rubber toy that he chewed to bits the week before though, so maybe the xray isn't such a bad idea.  He looks so unhappy, and the house just isn't the same without him!...........I can't bear it!

Poorly boy

Sorry to hear about Leo. It sounds as if you are doing everything you can. I wish you all the best of luck and hope you get some good news soon.

A word of advice, do not allow your vet to give your dog his booster while he is unwell.  It is so important that a dog is in perfect health before they have a vaccine.

Please let us know how your dog gets on and I'm keeping everything crossed for him.

I'm so sorry to hear Rugby is unwell!

I too think xray would be wise thing to do to see if he has got something in his belly.

Word of advise though, do make sure the vet gives him a very slight dose when they put him under.
He is unwell so caution is advised anyway but I have heard few people having problems with their Leos coming around and I believe in Germany, they are now thinking Leo might one of those breeds that can be sensitive to the anasthesia products.
I do not want to worry you saying this but to make sure you can advise the vet of this as it is something that they need to know.
Many Leos do not require the amount their weight would make them to need.

When Sasha had her accident first time they put her under for an xray they used amount they would have used for a dog that weights 20kg and that was enough to allow them to take the xrays.

You're right about the anaesthetic Noora, I informed all my puppy owners that before they took their puppy home :)

Yesterday afternoon they found e-coli in his system and put him on high-dose antibiotics.  He perked up briefly but this morning is as bad as ever.  His eyes are also very swollen - any connection?

I was just reading this about a young golden on a thread here: http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/111041.html
and this dog seems to have a problem with her eye too, might be worth pm'ing each other?  Hope your boy gets better soon.

How is he doing today?

We think we've cracked it!  His xrays showed that, although there was no blockage, his intestines are badly inflammed and full of gas (she described it as the canine equivalent of IBS).  He's now on anti-spasm drugs, anti-biotics, and pain killers and he's already starting to perk up so I'm feeling pretty hopeful this time.  Cheeky monkey gave me quite a fright for a while!  Thanks for your kind words. 

Excellent news, hope he makes a full and speedy recovery x

Glad to here your boy is feeling  better

keep us posted on his progress

xx

Glad he is improving and hope contininues to make good progress.

Aaawww, thats great news, hope he continues to improve!!

I am so pleased that you have at last got a diagnosis, you sounded so worried (naturally) I hope he goes from strength to strength now.

Hi guys, I'm afraid I'm panicking again!  After being so alert and well yesterday he's gone downhill again today.  He was back at the vets this morning and she's convinced he will get better when this wind expels itself.  But in the meantime he's not drinking, so I'm syringe feeding him rehydration solution.  The vet said a dog of his size should be taking 4 litres a day but I'm struggling to get half of that into him.  He's lost alot of weight but he has this big round tum on him that feels quite solid.  Do you think rubbing his tummy might help get rid of this gas?  HELP!

> The vet said a dog of his size should be taking 4 litres a day

Are you sure?  Humans only generally require about 2 litres.  Have you spoken to the vet about the tummy?

The vet said he would normally need 3 litres a day but with him having diarreoh he should have 4.  I mentioned his tummy and she had a good feel again, which he obviously found uncomfortable, but she said there's nothing other than gas in there.  The xray showed his stomach is completely normal (if empty) but his entire intestines are full of gas.

I was reading this post thinking that's good he's better & then I read your final post, sorry to hear he's not recovered.  I've gotta agree with Isabel that amount of water does seem a lot.  I'm no expert but I would have thought rubbing his tummy to dispel the gas might help if it doesn't cause him any pain.

Poor Rugby, still unwell!
I'm sure the vet has already thought about it but I'm sure there is stuff babies can be given to help gassy tummies?
Also regarding his drinking, I got sasha to drink when I mixed some guats milk yogurt to water, she would not drink just water on its own.
Maybe ask the vet if you could do this, natural yogurt should be good for his belly too...

Hi

just been catching up on this. Sorry your leo is unwell. Please be careful while you are trying to get him to drink-although goats milk/yoghurt mixed in his water is a brilliant idea please dont let him gulp down loads of water at once, he could be very susceptible to bloat/torsion with all that gas inside of him.
has your vet mentioned it at all?
Barbara

I'm giving him 50-100ml of water every half hour by syringe, plus ice cubes.  I'm going to try some probiotics today - not sure he'll take it though, he's got no interest in anything.  The vet has said there's no sign of bloat/torsion - and didn't seemed concerned it would become a problem.

He's barely eaten for 14 days now, and his tummy is just getting bigger.  When he's been in the vets on a drip (3 occasions) he's perky again for about 24 hrs and then seems to relapse.  Why is this gas not coming out? - he's not passing any wind, and his tummy isn't making any noises.

Are your vets sure there is not a blockage? Or even partial obstruction. Have they tried giving him barium xrays to see if it passes through his system? Might show where there is a problem and why the gas is not coming out.

afraid if it was me I would want second opinion.spometimes vets can get it wrong.
have PM you

I think it is time for a second opinion if your vet is not getting it fixed...
14 days of being full off gas etc is a long time and very uncomfortable and it must be painful too!

Hopefully he will drink the yogurt-water mixture, Sasha was not interested in water or food (hence she had to have the feeding tube inserted from her neck straight to her belly) but she did drink this mixture!

He's been admitted again.  He's been sick (first time during this illness), had terrible diarreoh, and another lot of bloods have confirmed his protein level is low.  His stomach is still swollen, and now seems quite painful.  The vets are referring him to a specialist - just dreading how long that will take.

best of luck, poor boy.

seems a random suggestion and possibly would not work for a dog but following my bowel surgery i had the most appalling wind and my nurses gave me peppermint water to shift it... now there is a good chance that wouldn't work at all for a dog but just thought i'd throw it out there.

do hope he improves

Hi susie

I don't know how I've managed to miss thread until now - I'm sorry to read the trouble your lad's been having and would certainly urge a specialist check him thoroughly a.s.a.p.

I know his weakened state is alarming should he require a GA but bear in mind that bloods are done pre-op to ensure the vital organs are sufficiently healthy prior to any procedure or establish exactly which if any require even more special monitoring than is done as standard.  Over and above which pre GA bloods help the vet to know how well the body is likely to heal if surgery is required (not all GA's will be for surgical purposes).

Better that, should it be necessary, he has any intense or invasive procedures done sooner rather than later and at least you know he'll be in the best possible hands :)

Sending gentle hugs to your lad and prayers for you both
Teri x

Hope you get some results soon .Sending positive thoughts For a speedy recovery.

Rugby is now at Leahurst referral hospital.  From initial consultation they think he may have a protein deficiency (anyone heard of pancreas probs in Leos?), expecting a call in a couple of hours for results of further tests.  I feel much more comfortable knowing he's in a place that can actually look after him properly - just hope we got him there in time. 

Will keep you posted
xxx

Missed this before now but
{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
And am so pleased he has been referred so quick :) I do hope they find out what is wrong so you can have him back in your arms very soon
{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs again}}}}}}}}}}}
Lea
xx

Good news that Rugby (great name :) ) is in the right place.  Have sent a pm which may help
Teri x

> anyone heard of pancreas probs in Leos

I'm afraid its more common than you would believe :(

Missie - I'm just on your website reading about Maddie!  Do you recognise any of the symptoms?

Just reading back on your posts now. One thing I will mention though, hold off the booster -
Give me a minute, I'll be back :)

I admit, when I first read your post I did think about EPI, but then a blockage and toy was mentioned - I replied about being careful with anaesthetic - then read he was getting better so I thought that was that. However, although Maddie has epi her littersister has pancreatis, and as far as I'm aware the symptoms were/are the same only her sisters was caught much quicker and so never developed into epi. Both treatments are the same (added enzymes and B12) Neither dog had a swollen tummy. Yes, the gassy bubbling noise was awful and sounded painful, like colic, and the weight loss was tremendous in such a short time. Bloody dire rear, in extreme amounts all passed off as colitis, every thing she ate went straight through, but she never lost her appetite - even resorted to scavenging in the bins :( she was so hungry. You say Rugby doesn't want to eat?
The three other leo's I know with pancreatis/epi all had the same symptoms as my girl. BUT that's not to say its not a pancreas problem. the only surefire way is for the vet to do a TLI and/or PLI test to rule either one out.
Just had another thought about the blockage - be right back

He was always a bit of a glutton, but out of the blue he started picking at his food, then just stopped eating entirely - infact I've never seen a dog look so disgusted when faced with a bowl of food!

I've just spoken to the specialist and Rugby is stable, but he will spend the weekend on a drip whilst they conduct more tests.  They believe he is loosing protein through his abdominal wall and suspect it may be IBD, although haven't written off a pancreas problem.  He's having an endoscopy, and biopsy next week. 

Are these any good to you?
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_inflammatory_bowel_disease.html
and this
''Weight loss is the most consistent sign along with chronic diarrhea, vomiting, and fluid accumulation in the abdomen creating a bloated appearance'' taken from:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_intestinal_lymphangiectasia.html (WHAT IS A PROTEIN-LOSING ENTEROPATHY?)

I'm sure things will get sorted soon
{{hug}}
Keep us posted

x

Hi

I've sent you a PM with details of a lady who's leo had PLE, she may be able to give you some advice.

Barbara
x

Hope they can find out why your Leo is poorly,fingers and paws crossed here.

Sheila.xx

How is Rugby doing?

I spoke to the specialist last night who had completed an ultrasound, which confirmed there were no tumours, obstructions, twists etc.  So they're sure it is IBD.  He's having his endoscopy and biopsy today, the results won't be back until end of week but later today they'll start him on high-dose steriods anyway.

Aparently IBD patients fall into 3 catagories:
Those who respond immediately to treatment and may never relapse
Those who respond somewhat but require ongoing treatment
Those who never respond, have ongoing relapses and a very poor prognosis

The specialist is concerned that because his protein level dropped so low it may indicate a very severe case, but please God don't let him be in that last catagory.  I'm concerned that my vet had him on steriods with no sign of improvement so does this mean he's not going to respond, or does it mean that perhaps the dose wasn't sufficient to make a difference?????

The specialist was quite bemused by the fact he wouldn't eat unless he sat on the floor with him and held his bowl, which did make me chuckle as this is how I feed him at home!!  Spoilt boy!

Thanks for all your messages, it really does help me stay positive
xxx

Hi Susie,

with IBD typically the initial usage of steroid treatment appears alarmingly high dosage, it has to be in order to be effective. The amount previously  prescribed by your vet will probably be considerably lower than that which the specialist prescribes so don't be alarmed :)  As long as equally strong measures of antacid treatments are given with steroids, the stomach lining is protected.  Steroid treatments often send our minds into overdrive, particularly if likely to be long term, but just as with any medication they have their place and in severe cases of IBD are quite literally life saving.

IBD, in any form, is manageable although not curable.  Some dogs can be weaned off steroids entirely, others onto a low maintenance dose of a few mgs every other day for eg but it can be quite a lengthy period of steroid usage before the dose is reduced dramatically even in milder forms of IBD and it should always be the case that steroids are gradually reduced - no cold turkey (except for the Christmas variety!)

Diet management for the lifetime of the dog is usually essential too.  IBD dogs often become intolerant to foods which they could previously eat without any ill effects and it may be that you will require to put Rugby onto an entirely novel diet - i.e. something with no ingredients which he has previously had, especially any meat or poultry proteins and cereals.  Your specialist will be able to go over all of the management details with you and be aware of prescription diets which may suit.  Even if there is nothing in his knowledge that appears suitable or works when tested never fear - CD is here LOL

THIS SITE has lots of IBD info should this be the conclusion reached by your specialist and also a link on there to a support group which has world wide membership so oodles of personal experiences to be shared on management strategies :)

Very best wishes to both you and Rugby and thanks for taking the time to update.  Please keep us posted.
Teri x

Rugby is now on his medication and I've been told the next couple of days are critical - we are desperately hoping to see some improvement which will show the medication is taking affect.  They've managed to get his albium level up to 15 (normal is over 25 but he was just 5 when we dropped him off) but they now need to monitor this to check he can maintain this level without their help.  The endoscopy showed ulceration in has stomach and badly inflammed intestines. The biopsy results will be in Friday, although our specialist is pretty sure it's IBD (small chance it could be cancer).  In addition my poor baby has fluid retention in his abdomen and under his skin, and has also developed a nasty skin rash.

The specialist has him on a hypo-allergenic food but if this food still contains ingredients he has had previously could this counteract any good the medication is doing??  i.e. the specialist said the first improvement should be the diarreoh stopping, but if he's still being fed food which he's allergic to will the steroid alone stop this?? 

Please keep him in your prayers - I'll keep you updated.

Hi Susie

> The specialist has him on a hypo-allergenic food but if this food still contains ingredients he has had previously could this counteract any good the medication is doing??  i.e. the specialist said the first improvement should be the diarreoh stopping, but if he's still being fed food which he's allergic to will the steroid alone stop this??

It's possible that the hypo-allergenic diet is one where the proteins have been hydrolized (Hills do such a prescription food)   While not excluding the ingredient(s) Rugby has had before,  they're broken down in a way that the body doesn't recognise so does not react as it would have otherwise :)

If the loose motions persist today, ask the specialist if you can discuss an alternative food - there are some prescriptions diets which contain unusual ingredients such as Caiplan & Tapioca (think that's Waltham brand) which are unlikely to have been in Rugby's diet before.  Of course the food he is on may not be Hills hydrolized diet in which case another option plus any others available only through vet sources so your vet will be best able to go through options :)

If necessary Rugby could be fed white fish (if he hasn't had this before) or cottage cheese as a protein with perhaps mashed potato added after a few days to make it more filling.

Dogs suffering food intolerances do not need to have diets changed gradually - in fact it's the worst thing to do.  If they are having an adverse reaction to a food it should be stopped immediately and a novel (to that particular dog) diet introduced.

Prayers continue,
Teri x

Sent a quick plea that its good news for Rugby

wishing you well, huge hugs and kisses for Rugby

Last night we made the devastating decision to put Rugby to sleep.  We're absolutely heart-broken, but I wanted to thank you all for your support - I just wish I had better news.