They won't be missed!  ITV and Martin Clunes sounds great!

So now, the BBC, the great purveyor of "good taste" (ie Russell Brand and Jonathan Woss) is setting itself up to be the guardian of the good health of pedigree dogs???   "It is understood that the club was asked to ban "at-risk" breeds from entering only the main competitions including "Best in Show" and the group categories. "

Since when has the BBC had the knowledge, experience and expertise to decide such things?   This is nothing short of censorship!

I for one, will not miss the triviali/cutesy spin that the presenters have used in the past few years - but I cannot get over the sheer audacity of their comments.   Who is their authority - Jemima Whatsit???

Perhaps we will now get a good coverage from another channel.  No more silly bits and stupid presenters. 

I am not sure ITV would be interested unless on ITV2, but Sky could well be.

The RSPCA has lost no time at all in sending all us reporters a press release saying that the BBC has dropped Crufts. Interesting when you consider the truth. Amazing how the RSPCA has managed to twist this? The BBC reported it as the Kennel Club had pulled out of the contract.

Within twenty four hours of the PDE programme going out the KC had received offers from ITV, SKY and a number of other TV channels. They said they weren't worried. They had asked the BBC every year to show the serious side of dogs i.e. health testing etc, and each year the BBC refused saying the programme was light entertainment and viewers watching it would only want to see glimpses of the dogs and would prefer to look at the stalls there and the shopping.

So Caroline Kisko told me that they were going to tell the BBC that unless they showed the serious work done by the KC they would not allow them to film there. So from what Caroline said and the fact that the BBC has announced that it is the Kennel Club backing out from the BBC, I would assume that the BBC has yet again tried to control what is shown not what the KC wants shown, as well as the daft banning of pedigree dogs.

Perhaps those people who own the acting dogs should refuse to allow any to be used in programmes intended for the BBC? Then the BBC could become a totally santisied zone with absolutely no dogs what so ever? Perhaps the Dog Borstal trainers might like to consider leaving the BBC and taking their business to another channel too?

All for the greater good I believe Polly :)  No other sporting hobby is shown with such a trivial angle as the BBCs annual portrayal of Crufts - can you imagine the hoo-hah there would be if The Horse of the Year Show, Snooker World Champions or any other major annual sporting events were brought down to such childish levels with totally inept presenters bumbling along ad libbing about things of which they are collectively clueless?

That the BBC is not to be a part of Crufts is IMO a monumental improvement - those who have a deep interest in pedigree dogs and many members of the public who still appreciate looking at - to them - some very unusual breeds will thoroughly enjoy visiting the show and, hopefully, a more suitably supportive broadcaster will portray all aspects of responsible dog breeding, exhibiting, training, working and the importance of health tests.

Who cares if we don't get to watch some random kid with it's face painted like a Zebra or silly dog toys joining equally silly celebs on sofas far removed from the real action?  I know I wont miss it one bit!

i'm hoping for ITV and martin clunes.

Yes I think ITV too.

They are doing a cat version of the Martin Clunes prog, but with Joanna Lumley -they were filming at the Supreme cat show with her just recently.

ITV would be my preferred choice too as many folks still don't have access to digital/satellite channels.  Personally so long as they keep Frank Kane on board and have equally amiable and knoweldgeable presenters chipping in I'll go along with pretty much anyone on the celeb front (Ah, except that RSPCA twonk that would have us believe he has as much interest in dog health as he has in castrol GTX :-D )

No other sporting hobby is shown with such a trivial angle as the BBCs annual portrayal of Crufts

Except cat shows -when the BBC did that (and they used to every year, but they picked the oldest show rather than the biggest and most prestigious which you have to qualify for, which not many could understand), it was a million times worse than Crufts, believe me. In the end they had so many complaints from cat people they stopped doing it altogether!

Lucky cat folks (now) - at least they listened to them!  Think how many years our complaints have fallen on deaf ears.  JH has made some good come out of this :-p 

> Crufts is sounding a more attractive prospect by the minute - I'll very probably go now :-)   Less hustle and bustle and devoid of the circus element made worse still by the BBCs presence alone never mind coverage.  
>
> Now if they'd only get rid of all the stalls that bear no relation to dogdom, drop a hall (or better two!) then it would be far more like a Dog Show <IMG alt=eek src="/images/eek.gif"> Heavens to Murgatroid - that's a radical thought - we can but dream but at least things are moving in the right direction&nbsp;

((((*Standing Ovation*))))))
:-D Great post.. couldn't agree more.:-D

I feel its a great shame that there MAY be no TV coverage of Crufts as it promotes so much in dogdom. Please hope someone takes up the gauntlet. The Essex Dog Display team made up from Rescue dogs, were always Fabulous to see. Hearing Dogs almost all came from Rescues, we marvel at their training and skills with there handlers. Dogs for the disabled similarly a lot of rescues. Epilepsy 'sensing' dogs, again from all walks and Bomb and Drug sniffer dogs again a massive percentage are rescue dogs. The Hero dogs we stream in tears about can be from breeders or rescue dogs, all wonderful. Often agility and flyball dogs a lot come from rescues.

No doubt you can add some of your own, but hopefully if another channel takes it up we may ask them to promote Rescue dogs more and more, and save innocent lives dying today, tomorrow, ad infinitum...when they have room in the freezers to store the bodies.

Sorry but I won't miss cringing when we watched the Peke win BIS,(sitting on an ice pack to stop him passing out) so hopefully their breed and some others may become more like they were. In the 60's my mothers friend bred and showed pekes and they had legs and they were great characters and could really play together...on a hot day too. It could promote Cocker Spaniels breeders that are having their breeding dogs dna testing, which I find admirable and so very interesting as my Grandfather bred and worked blue roan cockers at the turn of the last century and between the 1st and 2nd World Wars.

And as for Jemima (?) whatever-your- name- is or Granite or whoever condemmed Rotts, you are utterley misinformed. I suggest you do a little research with Rottweiler Rescue as to the breed, and the suffering they endure...like my one once did here who is by far, the worst guard I have ever owned (and my little Cav too) and then look at the types of despicables that own some of them for the wrong reasons and unspeakable things they do to them. But thats a whole different thread.

I think this is running out of control, and if the KC look at Hutchinsons and breeders start looking at certain breeds over exaggerations comparing that to now, a compromise can be reached. Once again, for the good of the dog and noone else.  

yep, itv because its accessable, also because if they got the contract i think they would give it far more coverage than the BBC. and martin clunes is sweet and actually, wait for it... gets dogs!!!!

anyway, heres hoping

golden lady, i'm not sure if i'm the only one but i'm not 100% sure if your pro crufts or not from your post (?)

the passion is limiting the clarity for me :) so could you elaborate?

I'm all for the greater good of dogs being show cased Golden Lady but this constant harping back to rescues and good causes is NOT what Crufts is or was ever about - it's not why those of us who breed, show or judge pay out vast sums of money trawling the length and breadth of the country all year round try to qualify for.

Crufts is a Pedigree Dog Show - an 'exhibition' showcasing the creme de la creme of pedigree stock competing at the highest level.  To that end yes, every inidividual dog of every individual breed should be the epitomy of good health, good type and good character and yes, a TINY number may not be but please keep things in proportion.

IMO Discover Dogs is where all the other non-competitive or side of things and displays should be show cased.

I'd like to see all aspects of dogs covered at the worlds biggest and best show but I definitely want the orginal purpose of the show - funded by ME and others like me - to be about competing for BOB in top quality competition and where the dogs definitely come first!

>>golden lady, i'm not sure if i'm the only one but i'm not 100% sure if your pro crufts or not from your post (?)

the passion is limiting the clarity for me  so could you elaborate? <<

LOL!! I can see why your confused, I confuse myself sometimes.LOL!! Crufts is far outgrown being a breed show (IMO) it is a Tour de Force of promoting  all aspects of Dogdom in general and deserves far more TV coverage than it gets. If Crufts was just for Breed then LKA or Windsor could be televised. And I am not against those shows or any other dog show. I am against the exaggerations in breeding certain breeds.(and culling)

I am for promoting dogs lives, and saving them, and their welfare being paramount, and televising Crufts has helped with this which is why its so hard to get into an agility club or even a training club. Thanks to Crufts often. It is much bigger than a breed show, it is Teri, and we are all thankful for that. For the dogs sakes.   

Everyone has to remember the viewing audience and the TV channel advertisers especially in this climate; they all will want to make sure that their viewers stay tuned. So I am unsure if other TV channels will take crufts on unless they can have 100% proof that the KC, breed clubs etc are making changes and that other animal agencies and TV channel advertisers are happy with the changes.

> If Crufts was just for Breed then LKA or Windsor could be televised

Surely you realise Crufts is the biggest and only championship show where qualification is necessary?  That's why it draws the huge public gate because it gets more dogs ON SHOW in 4 days than any other show on the calendar :)

> It is much bigger than a breed show, it is Teri, and we are all thankful for that. For the dogs sakes

Speak for yourself :) 

For MY part - I'd not dare presume I was speaking for the majority never mind *all* - I'd like to see the majority of Crufts given back to it's roots :) Conformation showing, i.e. pedigree stock being assessed against it's breed standard and competing for top honours within it's breed and then group.

Follow that up with equal measures for working/field trials, obedience, agility and junior handling competitions and parades or competitions specifically for breeders progeny, working hounds, perhaps even some schutzhound elements.  Better IMO they keep flyball, HTM et al to another arena on another date

Where on the Horse of the Year Show do we see valuable air time given over to The Donkey Sanctuary?  Equine stars of film and screen?  My Little Pony or Muffin the Mule?

> I am for promoting dogs lives, and saving them and their welfare

Strange how you've reverted back to 'I' on this element as though you're a one woman crusade of some sort without whom all dogs would be disease ridden, crippled, starving and roaming the streets   You're on a forum dedicated to KC registered pedigree dogs so I think it's fair to say that your interest in animal welfare is not like a candle in a cathedral - there are many more candles thankfully and things are considerably brighter than you seem aware :)  Perhaps you watch too much television (or just the wrong programmes)

 

> LOL!! I can see why your confused, I confuse myself sometimes.LOL!! Crufts is far outgrown being a breed show (IMO) it is a Tour de Force of promoting&nbsp; all aspects of Dogdom in general and deserves far more TV coverage than it gets. If Crufts was just for Breed then LKA or Windsor could be televised. And I am not against those shows or any other dog show. I am against the exaggerations in breeding certain breeds.(and culling)
>
> I am for promoting dogs lives, and saving them, and their welfare being paramount, and televising Crufts has helped with this which is why its so hard to get into an agility club or even a training club. Thanks to Crufts often. It is much bigger than a breed show, it is Teri, and we are all thankful for that. For the dogs sakes.&nbsp;

ah, right, then i agree with you. it is a great showcase. however, teri is right that first and foremost it is a dog show and should be treated as such. HOWEVER in doing so it can gain attention for many worthy dog causes such as rescues. i belive that its entirely possible for a channel to cover both well.

> Everyone has to remember the viewing audience and the TV channel advertisers especially in this climate; they all will want to make sure that their viewers stay tuned. So I am unsure if other TV channels will take crufts on unless they can have 100% proof that the KC, breed clubs etc are making changes and that other animal agencies and TV channel advertisers are happy with the changes.

i suspect the likes of sky and itv etc wouldn't be to worried- none of their shows that feature dogs have taken a hit i don't think?

> I'd like to see the majority of Crufts given back to it's roots :-) Conformation showing, i.e. pedigree stock being assessed against it's breed standard and competing for top honours within it's breed and then group.
>
> Follow that up with equal measures for working/field trials, obedience, agility and junior handling competitions and parades or competitions specifically for breeders progeny, working hounds, perhaps even some schutzhound elements.&nbsp; Better IMO they keep flyball, HTM et al to another arena on another date
>

i agree with the first bit but crufts is more than *just* a show, its a showcase that helps show the other activities you can take part in with your dog to. i LOVED watching flyball, its great, i also love the judging- i think there is room for all of it- just needs more coverage :)

I couldn't care less if it were never televised again - the film crew and their gear are yet another hurdle making life more uncomfortable for our precious dogs which are their to be assessed by experts in their field of activity :)

Perhaps better again they move Crufts to a huge outdoor summer event and JP can get satellite piccies instead :-D

> I couldn't care less if it were never televised again

even if you couldn't make it for some reason? i am very sad that i might not see it this year :( not everyone can make it and and thats a big loss

As an exhibitor I find the excessive noise created by flyball and much from the special events ring horrendous and not entirely conducive to other competitive activities within the same vicinity being enjoyable - especially not for dogs which aren't at liberty to go chasing a ball at the time :)

There is, IMO, room for little of it - hence why I and many folks like me, don't normally go to Crufts.  Space is at a premium and precious little of it given to the purpose of the show!

My answer was more directed at Astarte, as her question was mature in its content.

I think you will find Muffin the Mule and My little Pony are not real Teri...wheras the dogs I am referring to are.

So, in conclusion, lets all hope (or I should add, I for one..as everything is being dissected) that Crufts does have television viewing for all the aspects we all enjoy it for (that the royal 'we' Teri)

> I think you will find Muffin the Mule and My little Pony are not real Teri...wheras the dogs I am referring to are

I'm not entirely convinced on that last part TBH  

> My answer was more directed at Astarte, as her question was mature in its content.

There's really no need to be rude  :)  I don't agree with you - simple!  That you cannot accept that fundamental fact at face value says more about you than me

> So, in conclusion, lets all hope (or I should add, I for one..as everything is being dissected) that Crufts does have television viewing for all the aspects we all enjoy it for (that the royal 'we' Teri)

[TOS suggest I ignore that]

> As an exhibitor I find the excessive noise created by flyball and much from the special events ring horrendous and not entirely conducive to other competitive activities within the same vicinity being enjoyable - especially not for dogs which aren't at liberty to go chasing a ball at the time :-)
>
> There is, IMO, room for little of it - hence why I and many folks like me, don't normally go to Crufts.&nbsp; Space is at a premium and precious little of it given to the purpose of the show!

i don't disagree that a layout change might have been a good idea. or perhaps since the show has gotten so enormous recently add an extra day to do these sort of events in? then the show days are unencumbered (and perhaps have less of the crush of people?) and space becomes less of a premium.

> There's really no need to be rude&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; I don't agree with you - simple!&nbsp; That you cannot accept that fundamental fact at face value says more about you than me
>
>> So, in conclusion, lets all hope (or I should add, I for one..as everything is being dissected) that Crufts does have television viewing for all the aspects we all enjoy it for (that the royal 'we' Teri)
> [TOS suggest I ignore that]

Wooooooooo- saaaahhhhh! (rubs teri and golden ladies earlobes...and i do hope you've both seen 'bad boys 2' or you'll think i'm bonkers)

pleasent debate ladies!! :D handbags away!

(see me being a peacemaker this week, whatevers come over me!!)

> i suspect the likes of sky and itv etc wouldn't be to worried- none of their shows that feature dogs have taken a hit i don't think?

I am unsure if there has been a program about dogs on another channel that created so much controversy as this one did.

A lot of the TV channels are having financial difficulties channel 4 is one.
We have to remember that the BBC do not have advertisers they receive license fee monies from the government so do not need to worry as much about advertising revenue. Other channels rely on the revenue from advertising so no doubt they have been watching what has happened and they certainly will not want to be alienating the audience or clients so we will have to just wait and see what happens in the next few weeks.

Crufts where the space taken up by special events, trade stalls - many of which have nowt to do with dogs - and the huge public gate it attracts means that freedom to walk our dogs from their benching areas to the ring is fraught with difficulty much less trying to get them safely in and out of the halls to relieve themselves.  Adding yet another day to this circus would IMO be unlikely to assist exhibitors / competitors in any way and would further inconvenience those exhibitors forced to enter on a weekday (Crufts at least rotates the groups each year so that Sat/Sun are available to more exhibitors)

IMO Discover Dogs, which is growing in popularity year on year, could be better advertised and covered by the media to encompass many of the special events and displays currently lumped in with Crufts at present.  This would better serve every area of dogdom IMO, including rescue services, welfare groups, service dogs et al as there would be more room, more time and a higher turn around of dogs on display which, unlike Crufts, were not confined to benches for 8 hours plus so that JP can 'view' them when those being worked or exhibited really deserve a more restful atmosphere and greater areas in which to stretch out :)

While I appreciate that members of the public enjoy Crufts greatly and their support is much needed I do feel strongly that it should be borne in mind that Crufts is only what it is because of the exhibits and exhibitors - sadly we seem regularly to be given the least respect by its organisers and fans yet they would have NO show without us!

And as for Jemima (?) whatever-your- name- is or Granite or whoever condemmed Rotts, you are utterley misinformed. I suggest you do a little research with Rottweiler Rescue as to the breed, and the suffering they endure...like my one once did here who is by far, the worst guard I have ever owned (and my little Cav too) and then look at the types of despicables that own some of them for the wrong reasons and unspeakable things they do to them. But thats a whole different thread.


Nobody condemned Rotts.  I merely wondered why they were on the list?  I offered up the suggestion that perhaps the BBC had put Rotts on the list BECAUSE of the bad press they have recieved, ergo trying to score more brownie points with Joe Public.  Same with the mastiff and bullmastiff, why put them on their list?  Because of Joe Public's perceptions?  I apologise that this was not made clear in my post.  But you have to wonder why these three breeds in particular are on the BBC's list.  It can't all be because of PDE?

's not like my name is hard to remember *sniff*

> 's not like my name is hard to remember *sniff

Don't take it personally kiddo - sometimes it's better not to immediately spring to mind :-D

Lol I know ;-)  But I hope I explained myself well enough?  I know all dogs have the potential to be dangerous, I was suggesting that the BBC had exploited these dogs in particular for the public vote.

I can't see why Rotts are on there either as it happens :)  And I know gazillions of them - meet and mix with them regularly on walks, at training, socially and of course shows - dang fine breed of unexaggerrated make and shape enjoying good health, type and character with dedicated breeders, exhibitors and specialist judges striving to promote responsible ownership :)  Makes them an obvious target then :-p

Where on the Horse of the Year Show do we see valuable air time given over to The Donkey Sanctuary?  Equine stars of film and screen?  My Little Pony or Muffin the Mule?


Well wasn't this where DOG agility was first showcased..........? I remember watching it on TV in Sweden, so it was worldwide too no doubt. So they must have done it in the past. :)

No idea Marianne - you must be older than me 
(t'was worth a shot - not a big one, but worth a shot:-o )

As an exhibitor I find the excessive noise created by flyball and much from the special events ring horrendous and not entirely conducive to other competitive activities within the same vicinity being enjoyable - especially not for dogs which aren't at liberty to go chasing a ball at the time :-)

But Teri, that was years ago! You've got to admit our rings are in just about THE most quiet part now. Loads of space too. The KC listened and moved the special events ring away from the breed rings.

Marianne you know me - wont be happy until it's down to a separate day for pastoral, access exhibitors only and a few carefully chosen friends :-D

But seriously, it's not just our rings or our breed or our dogs - IMO the whole event doesn't match the needs and requirements of the exhibits or the exhibitors.  For me, that's the bottom line :)

No idea Marianne - you must be older than me  eek


Nah I'm going backwards -next year I'll be just 35 again. :) :)
But yes, agility did start at horse shows. At least we don't have horses at Crufts. :) (Mind you, I remember some at Birmingham in 2001!)

I like Crufts as the one dog event for EVERYONE. The one time for everyone to get together. But that's me -you're right in that it was always started as a pure show, nothing else.

But seriously, it's not just our rings or our breed or our dogs - IMO the whole event doesn't match the needs and requirements of the exhibits or the exhibitors.  For me, that's the bottom line :-)

Yes, can't argue with you there. I still think trade stands should have their own hall, and moving the special events ring was good -and I would not mind no public either. :) But at least it's just one show every year. I'd miss not seeing it on TV (because I like watching TV about dogs) but it wouldn't be the end of the earth, again it would be just like for other shows -you check the results on the websites if you weren't there.

a fair view

Sorry I forgot your name GCC!! Please don't sniff!! :)

Rotts are dammed fine creatures, you are spot on!! (mind you anything with four legs and tail qualifies for being dammed fine too!!)   

> Yes, can't argue with you there. I still think trade stands should have their own hall, and moving the special events ring was good -and I would not mind no public either. :-) But at least it's just one show every year. I'd miss not seeing it on TV (because I like watching TV about dogs) but it wouldn't be the end of the earth, again it would be just like for other shows -you check the results on the websites if you weren't there.

exactly, i don't think its impossible to do all of it and still allow exhibitors the things they need to do their work

Sorry I forgot your name GCC!! Please don't sniff!! :-)

Rotts are dammed fine creatures, you are spot on!! (mind you anything with four legs and tail qualifies for being dammed fine too!!)

It's ok :-)  It's anything with 2 legs and a "tail" I'm wary of ;-)  Sorry, I mentioned bullmastiffs and obviously they aren't on the list (I'm awful for speed reading).  I'm racking my brain wondering where they came up with the list of "at risk" breeds though.

phew! thought they were after all my favs! the fiends!

phew! thought they were after all my favs! the fiends!

Standing down from Red Alert Cap'n ;-)  My mistook.

Oh this is the best news I've heard all year - to be able to show my dogs with no fear of some celeb or camera crew filming and showing you on tv without your knowledge.  Had an issue with Ben Fogle last year - he and the 'crew' were between me and the toilets -------- I mean what were they thinking I'm disabled with a balanace disorder wouldn't you move your hiney out the way when a robust middle aged woman comes swaying towards you with a poop bag around her mouth?

All we need to do now is get onto the Government and their enquiry into pedigree show dogs and breeding, fine have an enquiry but please lets see ALL dog breeding be it pedigree or cross breed involved.

> have an enquiry but please lets see ALL dog breeding be it pedigree or cross breed involved.

Amen to that Schip :)  They'll need a bigger team and a much longer period to cover the basics though now that the 'meant to be' do-gooders have really screwed up the prospects of progressing the health of dogs in general :(

>Where on the Horse of the Year Show do we see valuable air time given over to The Donkey Sanctuary?  Equine stars of film and screen?  My Little Pony or Muffin the Mule? Well wasn't this where DOG agility was first showcased..........?

They still have dog agility at the horse of the year show every year :-)

Wonder if there's any legal redress we as breeders can take against her and the BBC?

Boxer in the filming was from a pet breeder, cavie from 'showlines' don't mean that was bred by a show breeder two of her own admissions on this site APGAW Announces New Working Group on Dog Welfare group need to be aware of this blatant disregard of the good that goes on out there, Google it and make your submissions they're waiting for us to comment.

Why hasn't the BBC independant reviewers checked the validity of 'that' program re where the affected animals were breed, where/are there health tests available for such animals etc - sorry good riddance to bad rubbish just a shame I have no choice about my license fee eh?

>ITV would be my preferred choice too as many folks still don't have access to digital/satellite channels.

The BBC is contractually tied to Crufts till 2010, so it can't be offered to any other TV company. Neither can the BBC legally refuse to pay the agreed sum for televising it, even if it isn't broadcast ....