i read this in Dog World last week and i cant belive she just went away without someone to care for the dogs.
Something must have happened to her.

This place is 10 acres, 100 enormous dogs, Boarding kennels for cats and dogs?? So where was all the staff when they abandoned them all to hell??? It would have taken a long long time for those dogs to die of starvation...where was the staff??

And this owner was a founder member of the KC's Accredited Breeder Scheme according to the Daily Mail. Some recommendation that is. You don't accumilate those numbers in a few weeks or months. And everyone slated 'that' programme. Long overdue that was. Far too many cases of this reported in DW every year that the RSPCA has to mop up.

RSPCA now has to look after all the care, veterinary, physical, mental, and otherwise of those emaciated dogs until she deems to sign them over or the court case whichever is the sooner, may take months. But hopefully they can get her on abandonment. Then the arduous task of homing them all, and that will be a nightmare. Poor, poor animals. And the poor owners of the boarders there, can you imagine if your dog was one of them????????

They could have phoned the RSPCA and say, please come, I (or my partner) cannot cope, so that the encarcerated dogs suffering could have been lessened. No excuse. I, like so many others, are fuming.

Until the full facts are established then we should not point fingers.
As for being a member of the ABS the KC only can have guidelines and they cannot dictate what people should do.

Shes a founder member! And the ABS is not formed long ago and she helped to do it.

100 dogs incarcerated in a dog hell, oh yes we should point many fingers.

I'm sorry but Goldenlady has made a good point.

If this had happened in a Joe blogs home someone living in a rural location with many dogs just left alone to starve and had been a nobody- my gosh... the owner of the premises here would of been seriously commented about by all... IMO.

Just thank the lord that the man who was boarding his staffordshire bull terrier at this place, really freaked out after not getting to speak to anyone about how his pet was for a week. Even climbing the fence in the end!
I left my dogs this summer in kennels when I was to Canada for a fortnight. I e~mailed and chatted to the lady after 3 days of being away. What if I hadn't had no contact? what if this man hadn't they could still be there now!!...

Now what a horror story that would of been!

Yes she says she is a founder member but but it means nothing. She applied and was accepted so to say a founder member may have been a little bit misleading ;-) You can say anything on your web site ;-)

Golden Lady

we have no knowledge of the circumstances - only of the outcome for the poor dogs.  By all means feel shocked, horrified, enraged or anything else but this woman is, thankfully, innocent until proven guilty!   We have no way of being sure that she has not gone through a far more harrowing personal tragedy, whether physical, emotional or both than these poor animals' circumstances have caused deep distress to them/their owners :(

I do wish a little more compassion was evident here for more than just the dogs - if it turns out this woman has done something very wrong and which could have reasonably been within her control to put right then I will be as disgusted as anyone.  Until then, I'd rather await the results of the investigations under way and in the meantime thank God that my own life and those of my family and dogs - SO FAR! - have been so fortunate.

There but for the grace of God go any of us.
Teri

If she is found to be responsible for the state of the dogs they found then she deserves what is coming to her if she is prosecuted .

But from what has been said in the papers, she has been released on bail by the police, whilst the man that was arrested is still in police custody. Maybe she went away, thinking that arrangements had been made for the dogs' welfare, and this man didn't look after them. She could have returned and been as shocked and appalled as everyone else.

I don't think anyone has the right to condemn until the full facts are known. From the pictures in the paper, the dogs looked thin, but not completely emaciated. Even the RSPCA say that they are recovering well. Sure, one died on the operating table - but you don't operate on a dog that is starving, you give it food. Maybe some well-meaning person did just that, and this dog bloated. I don't suppose that would ever be admitted by the RSPCA :(

> Shes a founder member! And the ABS is not formed long ago and she helped to do it.

She is not a "Founder member", Founder members are people who set up an organization not the first people to join an organization after it has been set up by others

Founder
n.
One who establishes something or formulates the basis for something:eg the founder of a university; the founders of a new nation.

One man is left to look after that lot????...Thats would be a disgrace. These dogs do not ask to be born, or incarcerated......

Their for the grace of God????????? I think not!!! My love for my dogs is paramount.... If I couldnt cope I would ask for help. She had the ability to use the phone if she had the ability to run.

Stop defending this cruelty, its barbaric. And already someone is blaming the RSPCA for the dog dying!!! Unbeleivable!!!!...they didnt look emaciated?? Have you seen and felt an emaciated dog with a heavy coat???

I cannot beleive anyone can defend this, or try to look at another angle..... The unspeakable has happend to the innocence. AGAIN!!!!!

Somone holds responsibility for this. As yet no one other than those directly involved knows exactly how many people which people or to what extent that responsibilty is held. Once the Facts have been established properly then I would hope the person or people responsible will be held accountable to the full extent of the law.
I am however glad that some posters on here are not allowed to judge others as they have no ability to see passed the emotive and damning reporting our journalists use to line their pockets.

I will be the first to condemn this woman IF she is guilty of abandoning her dogs. But we do not know all the facts, and until then I am just thankful that the dogs are being well cared for.

I didn't blame the RSPCA for the death of one of the dogs on the operating table. I merely said that I doubt they will give an explanation.

> Stop defending this cruelty, its barbaric

I certainly would never defend any form of cruelty to man or beast - nor it seems have any other posters 'defended cruelty' here

> I cannot beleive anyone can defend this, or try to look at another angle.....

I cant believe the willingness of some to condemn - I'd rather wait for the FACTS when fully established after INVESTIGATIONS and backed up by solid EVIDENCE.

As anyone with an iota of common sense knows, journalism and the media at large is not entirely based on any of the above - as witnessed very recently by a certain BBC documentary.....

The facts are 98 St Bernards were found abandoned and locked in their kennels as were pet owners dogs with noone present to look after them, or had been for some time. Some were found emaciated. One was PTS as he was unable to stand and one died in the night.

Fact is a phone call for help would have been responded too.

Fact is a 'boarders' owner had the caring and love for his dog to be concerned, broke in and raised the alarm.

The fact is the RSPCA have the horrendous task of taking all of those dogs and finding spaces for them and the veterinary care and feeding, bathing etc.

Fact is that now they with the RSPCA they are now being looked after.

The fact is this will cost a fortune. The RSPCA are always being criticised and what a wealthy organisation they are...they need to be!!!! to mop up yet another mess like this. Fact.

We don't yet know why nobody was there. Fact.

No-ones supporting her and I definitely wasn't, but it does make me wonder with a kennel that size that there must have been more than one employee and where were they? 

We are usually called on here for condemning people so when we thought that there may be another reason why this happened as we knew nothing about the person I think many of us considered that there may be some other reason why anyone could do this!

Time will tell what's really happened here and of course none of us would support anyone who would just go off and leave any number of dogs to their own defences.

>of course none of us would support anyone who would just go off and leave any number of dogs to their own defences.

And because none of us would do such a thing it's very hard to imagine that somebody else would; we think/hope that there is a reason that this terrible thing happened, and that it wasn't wilful. Until we know for certain, speculation is pointless and condemnation premature.

So many facts - so few, rather NO, facts relating to how this happened or why!

These concerned boarders - why did they leave their dogs in such an establishment if it was FACTUALLY so awful? 

Doesn't make sense .....

> Time will tell what's really happened here and of course none of us would support anyone who would just go off and leave any number of dogs to their own defences

Very true perrodeagua but how impossible is it for any one of us, admittedly with MUCH less dogs in our care, to find ourselves in a position where the dogs were #unintentionally# left without care for a few or several days?

I've been giving this a lot of thought - my daughter and OH often work away from home for a few days (separately, normally).  Were they to be doing so at the same time, say 3/4 nights, myself and the dogs would be home alone.  I could go out in the car, have an accident, and in some areas easily be undiscovered for a few days if it went unwitnessed.  During that time my dogs would be at home alone.
 
(a) They're not noisy and my home is not built close to other properties - so unlikely to arouse the suspicion of a neighbour
(b) If my car is away for more than, say, a max of 4 hours, it would be assumed by my neighbours that I'd taken the dogs with me to our holiday home.
(c)  No milk or newspaper deliveries to build up and raise an alarm - only mail for which there is a very large box unlikely to be filled completely in over a week

Only as and when any accident to me was eventually discovered and reported to the police or they managed to create sufficient noise overnight to arouse concern (from early morning until late evening my neighbours are away from home) would there be likely to be someone intervene.

During that period my dogs would have drunk dry any water bowls, had no food, no means of relieving their bladders/bowels outdoors and, despite all getting on very well, may have fought with one another.....

This is not outwith the realms of possibility for most of us - and could so easily be the result of an accident which could not be predicted!  That's not taking into account the myriad of things which could go wrong otherwise which could result in a far worse fate for humans and dogs alike.

regards, Teri

I have read all the posts on this subject, some I agree with some I don't, of course the welfare of the dogs comes first, but, heres the but, so far no one knows how many staff this person had working for her, for all we know she could have had plenty.  She could have gone away for a break and left someone in charge to look after staff and dogs and they did not turn up for work, so the rest of the staff also decide to take a holiday, not realising that no one would be there to look after the dogs, this can and does happen.

As for the people boarding the dogs, things must have been o.k. with staff to look after them, after all if I was boarding any of my dogs I would want to see round the kennels and see how many staff were responsible for the dogs welfare, so everything must have looked o.k.  Clean kennels etc. If this was't the case I am sure the owners of the boarded dogs would not have left them.


This is just my opinion at the moment until something else shows us that this woman is guilty, after all she has been bailed.

It is not my breed and I do not know this person at all, in fact, never heard of her.

Marguerite

I think that some on here were born a few hundred years too late.  They would have loved the witch hunts where women were bound and dropped into the pond.  If they broke free and swam they were caught and killed because they were witches.  If they sank and drowned, they were innocent!  Shame eh?  :( 

And wouldn't these same ranting people have loved public hangings?

I'll be the first to shout "Disgusting" if, when the true facts are known - NOT the inconsistent ramblings of ignorant reporters - this woman had been deliberately negligent.  But I know from employing staff, others who you thought you could trust are not always reliable. 

And if pet owners left their pets in second rate boarding kennels, then it's THEIR responsibilty and more fool them! :(

> The fact is this will cost a fortune. The RSPCA are always being criticised and what a wealthy organisation they are...they need to be!!!! to mop up yet another mess like this. Fact.

Unfortunately the RSPCA's fortune will NOT be used to support these dogs - it is spent on political lobbying. FACT

It will be impoverished local groups that will pick up the bill. FACT

> And if pet owners left their pets in second rate boarding kennels, then it's THEIR responsibilty and more fool them

That's IMO yet another mystery in this - I've as yet never boarded any of my dogs preferring to holiday with them or do without, but in a medical emergency for example, were this to be required I'd make sure I was taking the recommendations of trusted friends, fully inspecting the premises, the level of staff in relation to number of boarders, security, feeding and exercise regimes etc and any other needs such as basic grooming, one to one quality time spent with them etc (if God forbid they required a lengthy stay)

If nowhere met my requirements then I'd be looking into recommended pet-sitters etc.

A dog(s) owner(s) is responsible for ensuring their pet(s) get the best possible care when they are not available themselves.  If the place in question genuinely fell so far short of the most BASIC needs, why would anyone have left their much loved dog there? 

> Only as and when any accident to me was eventually discovered and reported to the police or they managed to create sufficient noise overnight to arouse concern (from early morning until late evening my neighbours are away from home) would there be likely to be someone intervene.
>
> During that period my dogs would have drunk dry any water bowls, had no food, no means of relieving their bladders/bowels outdoors and, despite all getting on very well, may have fought with one another.....
>
> This is not outwith the realms of possibility for most of us - and could so easily be the result of an accident which could not be predicted!  That's not taking into account the myriad of things which could go wrong otherwise which could result in a far worse fate for humans and dogs alike.
>

This is a similar situation to my own. Normally when I go out I take the dogs with me or leave them with a friend. Once I arranged for someone to come and stay in my home. She had an accident, broke her foot and couldn't drive. She rang to let me know, but I had already left home. Fortunately, she had my mobile number, and I was able to turn round and go back, so they were only left for about three hours. But if the accident had been more serious I wouldn't have known, and my cottage is quite isolated - so the dogs could have been left for a week. I would have been phoning home to check, but if I didn't get a reply might assume that she was outside - at least for the first few days. After that I'd have been stuck, hundreds of miles from home, worrying myself sick. Now, if I have to leave them I always wait until the dog sitter has actually arrived. But anyone can have an accident.

That's just it lincolnimp (see - spelt it right this time LOL) - things can happen, a few small innocuous things even more likely than one major drama, and the best laid plans are out of the window.

There must be many people who live alone or whose partner works away from home and were something to go pearshaped they could easily find their dogs deemed neglected, abused, incarcerated >sigh<

I realise the topic for discussion is a large professional establishment with an unusually large number of giant breed involved but as we don't yet know how this siutation arose (was there not a run up to events that staff past or present were aware of?), then it seems very unfair to judge and convict this woman on what's currently known.

Just as another poster has commented, I don't have any personal knowledge of this woman, her 'show career' or her kennels - it matters not to me whether she owned any of the dogs never mind bred and/or showed them.  All that matters is that the dogs are now in good hands and that this woman is eventually dealt with in whatever manner is appropriate to the discovered and established circumstances.

Exactly :)

> We have no way of being sure that she has not gone through a far more harrowing personal tragedy, whether physical, emotional or both than these poor animals' circumstances have caused deep distress to them/their owners :-(
>

quite. the whole thing does strike me as very odd- thats a hell of a lot of dogs! but we don't know what has happened to this woman so should perhaps keep a tighter grip on our horses till things come to likght.

I carry a PDSA card in my purse that states, if I was involved in RTA or similar (the police always go through personal belongings) that I have animals at home alone, with contact details. The PDSA sends them out freely on request, but a donation is helpful.

The last time I heard such huge numbers of a breed kept was Helen Hein (VET!) Does anyone feel that this huge number of dogs kept is remotely 'normal' ? Some puppy farms rings don't keep that many, one being prosecuted in Sussex 4 weeks ago with a measly 30-60 maximum of the poor wretched animals, of toy breeds. This was 98 giant breed dogs!!!! How strange that no alarm bells rang earlier. Could anyone on here look after that many and a kennels and cattery??  

And to anyone who causes distress to one dog, let alone over 100 I would be equally as condemming. There is no excuse for having those numbers...let alone neglecting them. The RSPCA would have jumped in and helped them when they got out of control with their numbers before any suffering and death occurred, as they do so many times when that 'collecting' syndrome occurrs. It would have taken one phonecall. 

Apparantly the kennel had once had a good reputation and the previous owner sold it in 2001 and is absolutely distraught at this news. Some people are so utterly naive that they think their dogs are in good dog loving hands, when they put their dogs into kennels. Sadly as someone else has said this is often far from the case, behind closed doors. If you know of a good kennel, keep it.  I just hope those poor animals recover from their ordeal.

i hear from somone who knows her, that she was away on a weeks holiday and left the dogs in someone elses care. What happened to that person Im not sure.

> It would have taken a long long time for those dogs to die of starvation...where was the staff??
>

I haven't read any reports that state it was starvation so it seems to me this could have happening in a very short space of time if the problem was no water, far more dangerous than no food or possibly medication if the dogs that died were elderly or frail.
There are no maximum numbers applied to the ABS.  It does sound like things have got very much out of hand but if the place was previously prosperous and adequate staff employed I don't think it was necessarily the case that welfare was an issue much prior to this catastrophe.

Does anyone feel that this huge number of dogs kept is remotely 'normal' ?

I know of one breeder in my breed who kept very nearly that number.  They are long coated, were all clean and well groomed, fed and exercised by the female breeder who must have been late 60s when I last visited.  She had help with grooming for half a day each week plus when she went to shows, and did the rest herself, including puppies.  It wouldn't have suited me but I couldn't begin to criticise the condition of the dogs.

To be honest 40+ years ago, it is the way that most dog breeders kept their kennel.  Large grounds, large kennels and large numbers of dogs.  People breeding dogs in their homes is a relatively new phenomenon!  This is now progressing (I don't consider it progress at all!) again to people with no experience breeding their pet quality bitches.

Could anyone on here look after that many and a kennels and cattery??
I used to manage 100 in quarantine, 100 boarding, 60 cats and 32 owner's dogs + litters, with 11 staff. 

There is no excuse for having those numbers
Many would disagree with that.  Have you seen any large, successful breed kennels?  Many breeders do test matings and keep the whole litter to see what they've produced.  It doesn't take long to get up to large numbers if you have space, money and staff to help.

It would have taken a long long time for those dogs to die of starvation...where was the staff??
I posted this link earlier which states that the dogs were fed and watered.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1994069.ece

You are obviously very passionate but know no more than the rest of us about what happened in this case.  It might be beneficial to use this emotion to help in your local rescue kennel where you could really do some good, which if they are anything like mine, are overflowing with unwanted dogs produced by backyard breeders. :)

I do and have for many years

> One man is left to look after that lot????...Thats would be a disgrace.

Or one man was responsible for the employment of the team of staff.

And not just full of dogs from BYBreeders, that is a rather naive statement!! And if I am emotional, it is because emotions boil over when the innocence are suffering. For which I make no apology. 

And not just me dear thats passionate, but I hope everyone on here is doing there bit for their struggling local animal rescues.

> And not just full of dogs from BYBreeders, that is a rather naive statement!!

how many dogs from good breeders are there? as in my view a good breeder takes their dog back

> There are no maximum numbers applied to the ABS.&nbsp; It does sound like things have got very much out of hand but if the place was previously prosperous and adequate staff employed I don't think it was necessarily the case that welfare was an issue much prior to this catastrophe.

And, of course, with large breeds, a couple of litters could easily add very quickly to the numbers - perhaps planned to be sold very shortly.

> that is a rather naive statement!!

I'm sorry Golden Lady but you are really not in a position to know anything either.  The difference is, everyone else is keeping an open mind.  I am sure there will be plenty of passion if we find out anyone was culpable.

Golden Lady

>And not just full of dogs from BYBreeders, that is a rather naive statement!!

Dogs from responsible breeders rarely ever find themselves in the local pound - (a) because if made aware by the owners that the dog requires to be rehomed the breeders take them back; (b) for 'the ones that get away' breed rescues step in if notified of a dog of their breed in such places and again, contact the breeder who, if responsible takes them back; (c) many ordinary dog loving people take the time to notify breed rescues or someone within a breed should they come across any pedigree breeds when viewing local general dog homes.

The RSPCA homes are notorious for refusing to pass on info to breed rescues and representatives - *worse* still, have been known to refuse to release the dogs to them, despite the fact that many breeds require specialist homes which can be far better assessed by breed specialists!

I've seen many of the so called pedigree examples in general rescues - few bare scant resemblance to the breeds they allegedly belong to, yet further proof that they are not the resulting progeny of carefully planned matings from typical healthy specimens.

I respect your passion - please have the courtesy to respect that others share the same passion but merely choose to direct it differently or temper it more appropriately.  If nothing else we are all dog lovers.

Westcoast said "I think that some on here were born a few hundred years too late."

Unfortunately such people are still free to serve on a British jury now!

Goldenlady said " Does anyone feel that this huge number of dogs kept is remotely 'normal' ?"

Personally no I don't and I do suspect that this lady has not been entirely wholesome in her dealings her dogs.
BUT
I dont know the facts and knowing how the RSPCA often make a 'drama out of a crisis' I will reserve judgement until I know the facts.

A couple of comments at the bottom of this report from people who know her.....

[link]http://www.northantset.co.uk/wardana/The-hunt-is-on-for.4754434.jp[link/]

I am however glad that some posters on here are not allowed to judge others as they have no ability to see passed the emotive and damning reporting our journalists use to line their pockets.

What an excellent post. Surely we can show concern and compassion for these poor dogs without allowing ourselves to be manipulated by our sensationalist press. And as for thinking the RSPCA deserve our support, well words fail me!

Having read through most of the responses on this thread it seems to me that now most on here think the woman in questions was pretty perfect and something tragic must of happened and that really its either all the RSPCA's fault or the owners who left there dogs there - talk about looking after your own or what?  Ok she was a breeder etc etc but surely someone out there can see what goldenlady is trying to say - what about the dogs????

I'm closing this thread for now as it's descending into arguments. A new thread will no doubt be started once there are further developments ie when/if any case comes to court.