Answer this question then - when i was out walking Logan this mornin - we met a lady out walking her collie - Logan was on the lead and so was the other dog - the collie was in season.

The dogs had a sniff at each other like all dogs do and then Logan just lay down waiting for me to start walking again after i was finished walking.

Now surley a male can tell when a bitch is season even when outside as said above.

Sorry to butt in but how will you know if she is in season or not? If you can miss a season in a staffy what makes you think you wont miss it in a spaniel  for the next 2 years till she is old enough? I didnt notice that my bitch was in season and i was grooming her every day as she was long coated so i know it is possible to not notice (i only noticed that she seemed to be matting particularly worse on her rear) and she now has a litter of unplanned puppies. I did however notice that she was getting large for the last 3 weeks of her pregnancy, i took her to the vet thinking she had a huge tumor or something, she only had 6 but her stomach was huge and the sire was little compared to her. How you could miss nine lab cross puppies in a staffy....well i too find that hard to believe. I cant tell you how worrying it was and still is with these puppies. The mum has been ill the puppies have been ill, ive cried many times worrying about what mightve happened to mum or what might happen to these puppies and they are only 2 weeks old at the moment. It was a mistake that my girl has puppies right now but i still feel so guilty about the fact that she went through all of that for no reason other than i didnt keep a close enough eye on her when thier was an unneutered male around. If you were to breed her just because "my friends say i should" and she should die how would you feel? in my opinion its just not worth risking her life unnecessarily.

My dog a week before whelping

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/Kimbokoala/Truffles%20puppies/Trufflesandpuppies002.jpg

Sorry i ment to say - finished talking not walking

Did you not consider taking the bitch for a misalliance injection rather than allow a puppy to carry a litter?

the lady on the phone said that they stock small, medium, large and xtra large - nappies for bitches in season.

Don't rely on those to keep an in season bitch safe!  She's more interested in taking your money than protecting your puppy bitch. :(  A male dog will go off his food, howl, bark, jump fences, scratch doors and many other things to get to an in season bitch if he picks up her scent.  It's difficult to understand that a 6 month old Staffie bitch wouldn't flag her tail or tease a male when she was ready to be mated - or that an entire male lab wouldn't have been making overtures to a bitch ready to be mated.  Maybe you haven't seen this before and didn't know what you were seeing?

I also wouldn't rely on trying to keep a dog in the kitchen and an in season bitch in the living room, especially with children in the house in 2 years time.

The only reason to breed a litter of pedigree puppies is to maintain/improve the breed standard, not to produce a litter of pups to sell.  And if you don't know how to train your own 4 month old puppy, how are you going to help the new owners that you sell your puppies to? 

I think this is a bad idea from start to finish. 

I'm trying to give helpful advice and be civil but I can hear trip, trap too! :)

Kelly Please dont rely on a nappy, even being in the room with them your baby only needs your attention for a split second and the dog can have mounted and tied with your bitch. 

I think we just rarely see shocking stupidity (ducks for cover). Dogs do not mount bitches from first day of bleeding all the way to the last, well mine dont anyway. So he would have only tried to mate her if he was ovulation, but as he has never met an inseason bitch maybe he doesnt know what he is looking for too??

Louise

For Louise and Kim - if i decided that i don't want to breed fromher then she will be getting dressed when she is 6 months old (end of january) and to be honest after all the hassle that i have had off here that is what i will probably do.

Well i would have thought the the decision to breed her would take more than 2 months and it has to be done AFTER her first season.

Louise

For Louise - how cheeky can you get - just because he didn't show any interest in that bitch doesn't mean to say that he doesn't know what to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kelly, you have posted on here as if you are absolutely ignorant of all breeding processes when you have whelped an (albeit accidental) litter before.   And as you say "at the end of the day though its my choice if I breed them or not" - so why are you asking us?   Do you want our approval?   Well, you can see, that you have not got!

I would suggest that you should first get hold of a copy of "The Book of the Bitch" - read, and learn, read and learn.

And just because someone else has a couple of springers says that yours are nice does not necessarily mean that they would be good enough to breed from.   What is the incidence of PRA in their lines?   Do you know?    Do you know what PRA is?   Are you prepared to go to the expense of testing for it?    If you don't, and you breed, and either dog is a carrier and puppies are affected, are you prepared for the new owners to sue you?   They could you know!

Please think carefully - let us hope that we, who are advising caution, are not banging our heads against a brick wall.:(

For Westcoast - how do you mean i don't know how to train my 4 month old Pup????????????

Cheeky ha, hes a dog, they dont just know wat to do they have to learn. As any stud dog their first bitch especially a maiden he may hump the head lol! Im not being cheeky im just stating facts as i know dogs.

Louise

Oops i think i may have abit of brick in my hair........

For Lokis Mum - As i have said already - after all the hassle that i have had on here already i am just going to get her dressed - someone said after her first season so i will just do that

When you say dressed, I do hope you mean that you will have her spayed?  Not wearing a nappy ??? :D :D (JOKE!!!)

It might be worth having your dog neutered too - it makes life easier all round.

Margot

> Incase others are also reading this post and think these huggy type things are any good in stopping a dog getting to an in season bitch, they aren't, bitches can get them off a dog interested certainly can get them off. They are purely used to stop bitches soiling the furniture etc, but honestly everyone is better off with a throw,, dogs don't like them at all, and it stops air from circulating, which could harbour bacteria etc.
>

further back up!

they are pants (chortle chortle). we've tried them a couple of times and the bitch just whips them off.

and they are not a chastity belt- they are a bit of fabric. DO NOT trust these to help defend her from a mating. bear in mind the bitch will be trying to get mated, she will not be helping you out (you kelly, not carrington :))

For Louise - Yes you know your dogs and i know mine but you don't know every dog

For Lokis Mum - Yes i mean Spayed - some people do say dressed though

But Louise, and those of us who have been advising you, are aware of the messages put out by bitches in a state of pro-oestrus.   You obviously are not.

Most dogs will only mount and mate a bitch who is at the height of her season and is about to ovulate.   He can tell by the scent.   I've known of dogs who at 2.p.m. show not the slightest interest in a bitch - but at 9.p.m, they are raring to go!

> Answer this question then - when i was out walking Logan this mornin - we met a lady out walking her collie - Logan was on the lead and so was the other dog - the collie was in season.
>
> The dogs had a sniff at each other like all dogs do and then Logan just lay down waiting for me to start walking again after i was finished walking.
>
> Now surley a male can tell when a bitch is season even when outside as said above.

could be for lots of reasons. dogs wll show little interest sometimes at the start of a cycle, towards the end though they go bonkers- i presume you don't know if she was on day 1 or day 14?

of course there are some males that don't take an interest in bitches.

Yes you know your dogs and i know mine but you don't know every dog

With respect, you don't seem to know much about ANY dog Kelly27 you have been given some really sound advice on here and I hope you listen to it.

Yes but as i know dogs and they are all the same biologically, i know what im talking about. Please listen to us that do.

Louise

And just because i have a baby doesn't mean i can't have dogs or a litter of puppies. K.Smith

i just hope you are not left with a litter of pups you can not sell
what will you do then
several well known breeders i know are struggling to sell their pups to the right homes
people booking puppies are backing out because of the credit crunch
one friend has been left with 4 large breed puppies at 7 months
they will be ok
she will keep them until right homes come along
or if not they will stay with her whatever
as for anyone breeding a cross bred litter
i find that tottaly unresponsible in todays climate

For Perry - Who are you to say that i don't know anything about dogs - you don't know me and if you havn't been reading through the posts - i have only owned 1 female dog until now the rest have all been males - my 1st female dog i got died of cancer before she was 6 months old. (now i own 3 dogs & 1 bitch)

The bitch - i am now going to get spayed/dressed.

I know my own dog and thats all that matters!!!!

And yes i have been listening to all the advise that i have been given and i am taking it all on board.

Just a few points here (can't believe how quickly this thread expanded!). Having a male dog in the same house as a bitch in season , even when they are kept totally separate (as they must be) almost always means that the male dog will go around and mark everywhere. I get urine everywhere when I have a bitch in season (even when she is kenneled outside!) -up the walls, over the dog beds, over the fridge, over the cooker, the bookcases -you name it.  Its the worst thing about having an entire male dog.

As for just watching them -impossible. It only takes a split second for dogs to mate and tie. (And ANY male dog will feel far more secure at HOME, so even if he isn't interested in in season bitches at walks, he will be at home. It's confidence.) Even my neutered dogs will tie with bitches in season and earlier this year I had one tie with a bitch literally when I turned my back for just 5 seconds. I didn't even leave the room. It was just lucky this WAS a neutered dog.

To back up perry,ur posts clear you know nothing about dogs! not in the way you should as a responsible owner or to even attempt breeding. Get book of the bitch this can give you all info you need to know. What cancer did your pup have? i would be interesting to know what she had and if that you knew a liitle more about our lovely canines as a species she may not have passed if it was caught earlier, through the symptoms possibly being obvious to us on the forum.

Louise

For Montymoo - I have decided just to get her spayed/dressed.

Gosh, I really am sitting on my hands today. As someone who's taken exception to other people disagreeing with you on the Neo post, you really are being most objectionable today Louise. If that were my dog who died at 6 months and you implied that it was due to my lack of knowledge, my reply would not be polite.

M.

For Westcoast - how do you mean i don't know how to train my 4 month old Pup????????????

This is one of your previous posts and exactly the sort of question that one of your puppy buyers might well ask you if they know nothing about puppies. :)

"As for Mya, she is only 4 months old, i know is still young but she won't walk on a lead, she either walks in front of me or behind me. If someone comes towards her when shes off, she runs home, if someone walks past her while on the lead, she trys to hide. Last thing at night, before bed, i take her to the park but if she sees someone, she runs home even if she has done her business or not. She won't walk past prams etc. She gets walked with my other dogs all the time and with them there she is still the same. If someone comes into the house, she hides and won't come out until they are away. And of course i can't forget this bit - she eats my other dogs business whilst out for a walk - Can anyone give me advise on how to stop this and how to make her not so nervous outside and inside???"

ur being a bit harsh, this forum is for people tryin to learn, how are people supposed to learn if all you do is offend them?

Yes i know this was harsh but i was wondering, i would know that YOU would not have the lack of knowledge yourself. But in someone less fortunate, maybe in having the knowledge may have helped in catching it earlier, therefore prevent her sadly dying? She has not been polite anyway but i thought i approached it in a nice way??

Maybe not

Louise

We have all tried to be polite to her, got grief and still offered advice. The girl just gotta be told. Theres a difference in taking advice all well and good but saying we dont know what were talking about when we do give advice its not polite either.

For Louise - I am a responsible dog owner, i know my own dogs and thats all that matters to me.
As for breeding - i am getting her spayed/dressed.
As for my other pup - she had Luikemia (not sure how to spell it, sorry), she was being sick all the time, had very bad runs, went off her food, had really bad breath and also was losing weight.
The vet took several tests, at first he thought that she had something wrong with her kidneys, but after 2 weeks the tests come back and the vet said that she had luikemia!!
It was worrible to see what was happening to her, as she was Logan's sister, Logan was tested too but his came back clear.
There was nothing the vet could do in the end.

Thats very sad for you and how awful to lose such a young pup and i really do sympathise, i was asking out of curiosity. There was nothing that could have been done. But i do recommend the book of the bitch for you are your current dogs, nothing wrong with being a better owner and improving your dogs lives through it. :-)

For Westcoast - Yes sorry i didn't reliase what you were talking about.
With regards to the post that you mentioned - Mya has been the hardest out of all my dogs to train, from a puppy - but after some advise on here given to me - she is coming on great not, still a bit nervous of some things but not as much and she walks great on the lead now.

For Loiuse, i never said that none of you's knew nothing about what you's were talking about. It was just the way you said "i know dogs" thats all

That's good news Kelly, but my point was that if you produce a litter of pups, the new owners will expect you to help them with advise that you just don't have the experience to be able to help them, however well meaning your intentions. :)

For Louise - You can't really tell people to be better owners, but someone has already mentioned the book of the bitch and i am going to do a google search on it later.

I wasn't trying to be nasty or anything back to you but it was just the way some of your posts where coming across - sorry if i seemed nasty.

Hi kelly,

Please take on board the good advice (I know it may not be welcome..but it is good and sound and well meant..for all concerned) That you have recieved from The experienced and ethical breeders who have posted here.

I am sorry you have recieved some down right rude comments which are little value to anyone reading this thread and making it hard for those seeking to be educated to be able to sort the wheat from the chaffe :(

I am particularly disgusted at comments you have recieved from one particular poster especially in the light that she herself has been in your shoes, and been called to task in an internet forum, in her case it was her actual breeding practice! (unlike your as yet hypothetical practice)

Here is a link, I think it will help you 'water off a ducks back' any of the comments and names (eg:stupid, ignorant) she has called you
Do as I say and not as I do?

Please dont let behaviour like this make you more adamant to ignore sound advice that is there and was well meant.
Best wishes.

For westcoast - as i have already said, i am just going to get Mya spayed/dressed.
Ive been sitting thinking as i have been reading other peoples post and answering back - that there are just to many risks involved.

HuskyGal

I have learnt from my mistakes and that is all i will say. I think i put my point across fairly.

Louise

For HuskyGal - Thanks and i have taken all the good advise on board. I think i know the poster you are talking about. Thanks again

For Louise - everyone learns from there mistakes

Yes so do i, but i think i told you wat you needed to know? Dont you think i was fair and just. I was beaten with sticks....

Louise

> I was beaten with sticks....
>

Maybe now might be a good time, Louise, To remember that we folk are little different to our dogs in the way that we learn best.
As you say [quoting an early post of yours] "I know dogs"
So you know that learning and shaping behaviour and getting your dog to make the right choices..is done not by 'beating with sticks' but by positive methods.... why not apply that to your intercations with folk :)

I think you could have written a really good post with alot of credence had you minded that.

For Louise - as ive said already, im sorry if i came across as being nasty back to your posts but it was just the way you put them. to me you put them down as like if no-one knows a dog like you do, then no-one else should own them

But i'll say it again - im sorry if i seemed nasty back, that was not my intention but it might have came across as that - sorry again

> I have decided just to get her spayed/dressed

i genuinely think thats the best decision :)

its great that you have listened to the advice given. maybe (although of course discuss with your vet) wait till she's a bit older though as it can effect the way that they grow.

i think you said you took your sis's dogs from time to time?, for the sake of your sanity and for your un-neutered boy you might want to talk to her about him going to her or something during Mya's season- its a nightmare :( the singing, not eating etc. and means you get some more peace of mind.

hth

I think i have just realised that, that ''i know dogs'' wasnt best way to put it. Made me up my own ar*e, but heat of the moment. What i meant to say was i know alot about dogs, not everything but i can offer some good advice from what i have learnt in academic ways and in practical experience.

Louise

Whether you 'know dogs' or not, you certainly have a bit to learn about communication, Louise! Maybe now everyone has calmed down this thread could return to being useful.

M.

Ok then....

What breed is it, spaniels?? What health tests would one need before wishing to breed such dogs? Whats average HS.

Louise

I can't believe what I've read here and the scathing posts in reply to Kelly, thank heavens for Liv, the voice of reason!    

Y'know, people can get their point across without resorting to being impolite.    Or should I say, people in glasshouses..............

Louise, can I ask what a 'hobby breeder' is?    

What breed is it, spaniels?? What health tests would one need before wishing to breed such dogs? Whats average HS.

That would depend on the breed, there are a LOT of different Spaniel breeds with average hip scores varying a lot, saying "Spaniel" is much the same as saying "gundog" -and the OP is of course not allowed to mention the breed according to the TOS anyway.........