Hi, looking for some expert advice - i own a stud dog which we have used succesfully for 6 months and so far every bitch has produced puppies. Unfortunetly ive just had a lady on the phone whos bitch has miscarrried 3weeks after using my dog. She asked for the stud fee to be returned and when i denied her this - stating she has signed a consent of mating which offers her a free return if no pups are produced she got very agressive. Am i the un-reasonable person here, i even offered the use of the dog with her other bitch if that was more suitable to her. I would love to have some feedback on this.
Thanks in advance.

Stick to your guns - she signed the contract so you're well within your rights to hold onto the stud fee.

Fiona
x x x

It is not the norm that you refund the stud fee. The only time I think it would be reasonable would be if -and I'm not suggesting this is the case at all - your dog had passed a virus or some such thing onto the bitch.

The norm is that they get a repeat mating - but that is where the bitch did not end up in whelp. I find it strange saying that she miscarried after 3 weeks - that seems rather early - as far as I know, if a bitch has problems she'd be more likely to re-absorb at that stage. Experienced bitch owners may be able to clarify this more. It might also be influenced by the particular breed - so if you could let us know that, it would be a help.

If the bitch definitely mis-carried then I don't see that you actually owe anything - including a repeat mating as the mating obviously worked and that is what you pay a stud fee for - ie to get a bitch in whelp. After that it's down to the bitch and her owner.

Morally speaking however - you may wish to offer a further mating out of goodwill etc.

jmho

Pam n the boys

Hi Pammy,
Thanx for your quick reply - it was useful info.
The story i received was that the bitch has been 'bleeding' alot for three days and upon a vetinary examination the owner was told that a miscarraige was the probable answer. The bitch had already had a litter and is only 5 years old. The vet did mention she could have possibly contracted an infection which could have caused this to happen. My dog is booked to go to the vets now to be screened for any possible infection/virus, as like with horses anything can be passed from animal to animal and i now need peace of mind. The dogs by the way are hungarian vizslas. The dog was used just two weeks prior to the bitch in question and there has been no problem with this bitch and she is confirmed in whelp.
I did offer a free return during either of her next two seasons or to the ladys 2nd bitch if she felt that would e better. Thanx again for your advice

Hi Barney
The stud fee is paid for the use of your dog, not for the bitch producing any puppies.
A return visit is offered as a matter of curtasy if the mating does not result in a pregnancy.
If your dog performed then the lady has recieved what she has paid for so you owe her nothing and a return visit is a favour. Your dog did his part for which you were paid.

Hello Barney

If the bitch was definitely tested in whelp by a vet, I should think you deserve all of the stud fee, but to keep goodwill, offer her a free return.

It made me think, as I have now adopted a system that many of the Flatcoat folk are doing now - you charge a basic fee for your trouble and time, which is non-returnable. If the bitch is tested in whelp by a vet at a suitable time (usually 24-28 days) the balance is due in full, and then the whole amount is non-returnable. This, in addition to a stud contract, has kept everyone happy so far, and doesn't tie the bitch owner to using your dog again should they find a better mating at a later date.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

while youve every right to keep your stud fee as indeed the dog performed-i personally wouldnt -but there again i never asked for a fee unless they had pups!
legally youre right. but id feel mean if i took it and the owner got nothing to ofset it with [pups!]

She does not sound like a nice lady, I have a stud dog and I have never returned the stud fee, only one bitch did not take and she was offered a chance to contact me the next season. your stud dog did his job and the bitch was pregnant, so you do not have to give her any money back and you do not have to give her a free mating next time. stick to your word.

debbie

You should stick to what you agreed in the first place.
Usually stud fee is payed upon a mating and not a litter of pups.
The breeder whos stud I used was very good and he told me even if my dog delivered and for some reason lost the pups I would get another mating free of charge. I thought this was good of him, but then again I think I'd do the same if I owned a stud dog.

Just another thought but has it been confirmed for sure that this particular bitch is no longer in whelp? On a couple of occasions, we have had bitches who have had a few days bleeding at about the 3 week stage, sometimes it's gone on for longer, & in each case the bitch went on to have a good-sized litter. Our vet always said it was probably nature getting rid of one or two puppies that weren't "right". So it's possible that this bitch may still be in whelp - a scan in a week or so could confirm this.

Jane

Just a question could her bitch gave your dog something, then if so is she going to pay your vet bills (since she wants a refund)? I know that dogs can get STD's, and do you make sure the bitch is checked for STD"s before breeding with your studd? Just wondering. I wouldn't refund her the money, but I would want proof that her female is no longer pregnant and if she wasn't I would offer a free studd fee.

HI, I agree. The stud fee is for a mating - not for puppies. I would suggest that if you accept this bitch back for a free return that you insist she is swabbed early in her next season for infection, and if your dog tests clear too this will put the bitch owners and your mind at rest - hopefully - that both are "clean" before another mating takes place. I wouldn't return the stud fee, but if you are thinking of doing so, wait til a week or so after the due whelping date and give them a ring, unless they have her scanned soon and she is "empty". Have you given them the reg form ?

Hi,
Thanx for your opinion - everyone on here has made me feel better. I cannot see this lady contacting me for a further return (although it has been offered) as she was very rude, infact behaved totally like a child and put the phone down!!!
I havn't signed the green form yet so if the bitch does produce as someone on here has suggested she may well do as they have experienced this 'bleeding' at around three weeks and then their bitch has produced pups, it will be rather funny for her to eat humble pie and call me to request the form!! Its really sad because breeding can be so exciting and we too were looking forward to the possibility of having a pup to show from the litter as the bitch was the best we had seen and their pedigrees were so compatible. Someone like this can so easily spoil the entire thing. And, after reading the response i have had on this site i will definetely not be returning any of the stud fee.

Hi Barney
This lady paid you for the use of your boy, you fully carried out your end of the bargain and cannot be expected to be responsible for the welfare of the bitch.
Offer her another mating next time if she wishes..but no money back !!!!

Barney, just as an aside to your real question, it might be worth you insisting on any future bitches (should you consider using your dog again) be swabbed for infections. I know of a dog who came within inches of death, and cost his owner in excess of £5,000 vets fees, having caught an infection from a visiting bitch.

Hi all, I know someone who's champion was rendered sterile following a mating with a bitch carrying an infection.Dawn R.