Try this link, makes you think more about what you actualy feed your dog.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog-food-index-a.html

This is an American site and many of the ingredient lists are not applicable to the UK.  It is also worth noting that this is not a consumer led website such as "Which" but purely the individual views of the authors who do not list any specific qualification.  They have invested time and money on a website but, really, their opinions are of no greater value than anyone elses.  That part is fine but I don't like they way that the impression is given that these are "consumer" reviews.  If you try to place a review on a food you are blocked from doing so, only the "authors" can do that ;-)

Brilliant website,Geordie!

That is true Isabel but none the less. I think he is correct and has done his homework. There are also many Uk foods in the index. Oregin is the highest rated you can get in the UK but there are others. You also get how to understand the ingredients after reading his reviews. A lot of top branded foods use mainly rice then charge premium prices. You can buy a big bag of rice in tesco cook it then add this to a cereal free kibble to get a similar diet for half the price. Thats is if you think your dog needs all that rice or similar cereal. Still worth a look at as it is a great site.

yep- seen this site before, it tells you as it and is well worth a look to get a general idea and comparisson of foods. also have a look at www.dogfoodproject.com plenty of info there about foods, ingredients and what to look for

The UK foods on the list do not necessary have the same ingredients if produced under licence else where. If something interests you on the list it is probably worth checking.

>You also get how to understand the ingredients after reading his reviews.

It's a very subject understanding you are getting :-)

> A lot of top branded foods use mainly rice then charge premium prices. You can buy a big bag of rice in tesco cook it then add this to a cereal free kibble to get a similar diet for half the price.

You could but you would have to go through all the other work of ensuring a balance and would not benefit for the wholesale prices and mass production cost benefits so probably would not save much.  Easier and more assured to let someone else do it I feel particularly if you have no problems with the ready prepared product :-)

I'm really worried now after reading about Milos dog food but he is allergic to pratically everything else so not sure what to do now.

If he's doing well on it then that's all you realy need to worry about.That site gives my dogs food only two stars but it suits him much better than any of what they call 5/6 star foods(most of which we can't buy anyway).It is a good site for looking up ingredients especialy on foods where the list can be a bit evasive on the manufacturers site but I wouldn't take it all to heart :)

He is doing quite well on it but it only has one star and appently contains sawdust and something that could cause cancer.   Not that happy to find that out.

Bevb, please read what I have said about the site and stop worrying :-)  No food sold in the UK contains anything that could harm your dog.

> He is doing quite well on it but it only has one star and appently contains sawdust and something that could cause cancer.   Not that happy to find that out.

I'm assuming it doesn't say sawdust in the list of ingredients on the bag? I'd wonder how they'd know that without having the kibble analyzed?The connection between artificial  preservatives and cancer in dog food is widely reported but then so are the risks with the natural variety of preservatives.As with anything you have to make up your own mind based on the info available.There's an article here about preservatives..

http://www.executec.com/nutra.htm

You could find lots more both pro and con,I posted that one as it was written by a veterinary clinical nutritionist(as opposed to someone with a commercial or ethical interest).I spent alot of time looking in to dog food ingredients as my Boxer is gluten intolerant,I ended up with a mid range food containing minimal ingredients that he thrives on.They are all different and have different requirements,as long as you know exactly what he's eating (sawdust aside ;))and that he's doing well on it I wouldn't worry.

Well said!

Here isthe link to it
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1079&cat=7

If you scroll down past the list of ingredients you will see  the review on it and apparently the ingredient Powdered cellulose which is quite high up the list of ingredients is just another name for sawdust!

>apparently the ingredient Powdered cellulose which is quite high up the list of ingredients is just another name for sawdust!

That must have been written by someone who hadn't had a look at this list of human foodstuffs that contain powdered cellulose. Sawdust? I think not!

Sawdust? I think not! Do we know what it actually is as that link just says bulking agent. :-) I am always facinated by some of these filler products. Certainly not sawdust as such but looks to be of as much use..

There is a lot to be said about home made diets..

EDITED to add looked up on google doesn't paint a pretty picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose

QUOTE"For industrial use, cellulose is mainly obtained from wood pulp and cotton. It is mainly used to produce cardboard and paper; to a smaller extent it is converted into a wide variety of derivative products such as cellophane and rayon. Cellulose is also used in the Petrochemical industry, to make Ethanol and other Biofuels, such as Methane. Cellulose has the potential to become fuel cource replacement, although the costs and involved in producing fuel by this means means it is less convenient that the mining of fossil fuels.

Some animals, particularly ruminants and termites, can digest cellulose with the help of symbiotic micro-organisms that live in their guts. Cellulose is not digestible by humans and is often referred to as 'dietary fiber' or 'roughage', acting as a hydrophilic bulking agent for faeces."

Quality ingredient then !!!!!!!!

Bevb, please read what I have said about the site and stop worrying   No food sold in the UK contains anything that could harm your dog.

Not sure about that Isabel.. Was it not JG that had to have some serious vet treatment carried out on one of her dogs because of some food?   I am sure she said it was the diet.

Appolgies if I misread this as it was a few weeks ago.

> Was it not JG that had to have some serious vet treatment carried out on one of her dogs because of some food?   I am sure she said it was the diet.
>

JG will explain it better I am sure but it is to do with a breed specific anomoly not anything to do with the safety of the food.

Cellulose is also available form Vegatables and grains.

> Cellulose is not digestible by humans and is often referred to as 'dietary fiber' or 'roughage', acting as a hydrophilic bulking agent for faeces."
>

And where would we be without roughage?  :-)

Seems to be so vague Gillian, nothing actually seems to say what it is :-D  Do we want to know I wonder :-)

> Do we want to know I wonder :-)

Exactly.  All we need to know is it is safe and the overall balance is all our dogs require :-)

Purines are what causes the problems for Dalmatians.

>Was it not JG that had to have some serious vet treatment carried out on one of her dogs because of some food?   I am sure she said it was the diet.

Yes, I was (through reading on the net about how marvellous it was for dogs) feeding him the wrong sort of fresh meat and veg. I was allowing him to have red meat, oily fish, offal and lots of vegetables - without checking the purine level of the protein source. My own stupid fault - but it meant that, being a dalmatian and therefore having a genetic predisposition to forming urate stones, that is exactly what he did, and required emergency life-saving surgery.

If I'd stuck to the rice-heavy food he's been on previously it's unlikely ithe problem would have occurred.

I think I will contact Hills and ask them directly.

Some pretty specific information from the The Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations  website.

"Purified, mechanically disintegrated cellulose prepared by processing alpha cellulose obtained as a pulp from fibrous plant materials; occurs as a white, odourless substance consisting of fibrous particles which may be compressed into self-binding tablets which disintegrate rapidly in water; exists in various grades exhibiting degrees of fineness ranging from a dense free flowing powder to a coarse, fluffy non-flowing material. ((C12H20O10)n) Functional use = Anticaking agent, dispersing agent, texturizing agent"

Looks like powdered plant material - which is also a pretty good description of wheat ;-) It wouldn't worry me. :)

I haven't looked at the link, but if you look on the DEFRA website, sawdust is an acceptable bulking agent/filler in dog food, so it could be in some or all of the foods. Manufacturers aren't going to put it on the bag.  Having said that, only untreated sawdust is acceptable.  This is my personal hate about off the shelf dog food - you really don't know what's in it. The contents of dog food was what caused me to look up the sawdust thing a couple of years ago. Personally, I wouldn't get hung up on it being sawdust, I would really doubt that it would cause any harm.

BTW Lori, wood is fibrous plant material, and your description sounds exactly like sawdust doesn't it :) If it was wheat it would be called wheat I would have thought.

Kat

> BTW Lori, wood is fibrous plant material, and your description sounds exactly like sawdust doesn't it :-) If it was wheat it would be called wheat I would have thought.
>

Spot the wink Kat, no need to get sarcy. Just pointing out that fibrous plant material isn't a description that would particularly worry me.  Many things could be described that way from cabbage to branches. I didn't really think it was wheat, nor was I implying that. I disagree with the current trend to make people feel guilty about not feeding their dog the most expensive, most exotic sounding food (come on, does a dog really know the difference between roasted elk and chicken kibble?) or a raw diet. It's a personal choice and one I won't criticise someone for.

BTW - my two, that are fed fresh raw meat every day go out on their walks and choose to snack on poo of just about any animal barring dogs, grass, roots and they really enjoy tucking into sticks. Yes, given the chance, they both eat wood - maybe there's something to that sawdust. :) They prefer them soaked in the river or frozen but will eat them dry as well.

>Yes, given the chance, they both eat wood - maybe there's something to that sawdust.

I have one who loves feathers - the crunchy flight feathers in particular.

Knock on wood, so far they only like feathers if some of the wing is attached. They always have to have a good sniff though, just to see if any 'good stuff' is lying around.

Missed the wink Lori :) but also wasn't being sarcy.

I agree with you, and I do not condemn or try and make other people feel guilty for their choices either and would not condemn their choice, I make my own choice and stand or fall by it. Mine often snack on wood and other unmentionables, which is why I said I wouldn't be concerned about sawdust particularly! Mine too are fed raw, and I'm sure they would love to try the roasted Elk (fresh) given half a chance.

K

Now fresh elk is another thing all together. Dogs are asking when, they will be there with their bibs on. :-D