HI, JUST GOT THE RESULTS BACK FOR MY BITCHES TITER TEST.
DISTEMPER IS OK THE HEPATITIS IS 64. IF 64 OR ABOVE THEN NO VACC NEEDED, PARVO IS NEEDED, DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF YOU CAN GET SINGLE VACCINES I AM TEMPTED JUST TO DO THE DISTEMPER AS HEPATITIS IS ABOVE 64. ANY THOUGHTS?

You can get single parvo vaccines but not many vets carry them in stock, so you will need to look around. 

Did you have the Titer test done at your own vets & what made you have it done, & how much did it cost.I am only asking as I am considering this for my 12mth old whose booster will be due next month, she was fine after her 1st jab but after the 2nd she had a reaction within 3 hours all her face & head swelled up & she had to be rushed to vets they gave anti histamine & every thing seemed to be ok after a few hours. Also heard that one of her brothers had same trouble, so I am nervous of having her booster.

I'd be surprised if your Vet wants to give your dog a booster after that reaction Beastie.  Having a word with him would probably be your best bet.  And ask if he sent off an adverse reaction form to the drug company as they are supposed to do. :)

Have spoken to the vet when I was there with one of the others, all they want to do is put her on a course of anti-histamines for a few days before & after the booster, say it is quite a common reaction!! I am sure they will not have sent off a form as most of them appear not to with vaccinations, would it be anything to do with the income they get from them perhaps??

> would it be anything to do with the income they get from them perhaps??

How would reporting reactions affect their income?  The fact is all dogs react to vaccines.  There really would be no point in having them if they didn't.  It is sorting out the degrees of reaction, short of a severe adverse reaction that would endanger the dog to the point of it not being worth the risk, that is down to clinical judgement. 

If it became common knowledge to the general public the amount of severe adverse reactions people will think twice about vaccines wormers etc. They frequently try to blaim it on something else as with my girl, they tried to tell me at the time she had been stung, I know she had not she hadn't been outside on her own, it was mid January & freezing cold not the weather for bees wasps etc. It wasn't  until I spoke to the senior partner some months later that he advised it is a quite common reaction.

I think people generally are aware that medications carry some level of risk. 

Beastie2. I had tes done at my own vet because my youngest dog is due her first booster and I thought this was a gd time to check her imunity. I have no idea what it will cost. I personally dont mind as it is my bitchs health I am thinking about. I dont want to boost is not needed but will if needs must.

No I agree I don't care how much it costs just wondered that was all.

Have a look at the fees charged by Glasgow University

Idexx also do them but they do not show a fees list

Thanks for that Moonmaiden

When a dog has an adverse reaction to a vaccination/booster they are more likely to have another adverse reaction so you are best avoiding boosters in the future.  Titre tests are a good idea, and it is worth knowing that once a dog is immune the immunity generally lasts between 7 years to life so no need for on-going boosters.  Have a look here:http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/ and also here: http://www.spangler.co.uk/

These web sites make incredible & very interesting reading I have saved them both & will continue later, from what I have read so far I don't think anyone would have their dogs vaccinated again without at least at titre test.

> all they want to do is put her on a course of anti-histamines for a few days before & after the booster

I went down that road after two adverse reactions - never again as he had a third adverse reaction. Even after this a few vets have attempted to persuade me to have the booster done again ignoring case notes clinical data and the vaccine manufacturer advice. After speaking with the practice manager his medical records have been amended in bold red stating vaccinations is not to happen due to adverse reactions along with the medication adverse reactions and allergys he has.

Tell your vet you want an adverse reaction report done. If they refuse to do this then report it yourself.

I assume you are now using nosodes instead of vaccinations?

If they refuse to do this then report it yourself.

I was unaware that the public could do that when my bitch had a fatal reaction to Rimadyl.  I seem to remember reading on here that if our Vets don't report it, then we can?

> I assume you are now using nosodes instead of vaccinations?

No. Some homeopathic vet's beleive nosodes work others do not, I am undecided at this moment in time.

> I was unaware that the public could do that when my bitch had a fatal reaction to Rimadyl.  I seem to remember reading on here that if our Vets don't report it, then we can?

Yes you can and they will look into it.
Also if the vet refuses to contact the company you can complain to the rcvs.

>Some homeopathic vet's beleive nosodes work others do not, I am undecided at this moment in time.

I think I read in a fairly recent (last 3 months or so) edition of Dogs Today that a spokesperson from the sociaety of homoeopaths (or some such body) stressed that nosodes were not recommended as an alternative to vaccination. Has anyone got a back copy that they could look up, please?

This article (by a homoeopathic vet, I think) says that nosodes should be given alongside conventional vaccinations to minimise side-effects, not replace them.

I do think it is important if you decide to give homeopathic nosodes to go to a homeopathic vet.  This is what I have done and the procedure is very different to the nosodes that you buy online or over the counter.  The correct prescription is made up for each dog and it is administered every day for 6 consecutive days every 6 months (twice yearly). 

nosodes should be given alongside conventional vaccinations to minimise side-effects, not replace them.

I haven't read the article but the above statement is incorrect, homeopathic nosodes are not give to minimise side effects of vaccination.  One of the homeopathic remedies that is given to minimise side effects of vaccination is Thuja, there are others but Thuja is the one that my homeopathic vet advises as does Richare Allport on his website.

>I haven't read the article but the above statement is incorrect

It's worth reading the article and recommended protocol. :-)

Which ever way you look at it none of it is supported by evidence.

http://www.bahvs.com/nosodes.htm

It's worth reading the article and recommended protocol. 

I do have trust in my homeopathic vet who is also a conventional vet, and after looking at all the alternatives and trying to find the best way to keep my dogs safe have chosen to follow his guidelines.

If the article you refer to advises that nosodes help protect against adverse reactions from conventional vaccines then I know this information is wrong. 

>I know this information is wrong. 

It was written by Nick Thompson BSc.(Hons), BVM&S, VetMFHom, MRCVS, who seems to be well-qualified.

Not even a little peek, Perry? :-)

Thank you Jeangenie I have not read that before. I will have to see if I can find the artical in Dogs today. My dog has extreme allergies and reactions so I have to be extra careful, it's a case of damned if I do damned if I don't. If you find any more articles data etc please forward them I would love to read them.

It was written by Nick Thompson BSc.(Hons), BVM&S, VetMFHom, MRCVS, who seems to be well-qualified

If he 'advised' that nosodes should be given to help protect against adverse vaccination reactions then no matter how many letters he has after his name, he is in cloud cuckoo land.  Nosodes are an alternative to vaccination.  However, having not read the article and not having had a 'peek' at the moment, then I am not sure he said this. 

Katt, I had a much loved 3 year old dog die after a booster and  after experiencing what he went through would never have my dogs 'over vaccinated'.  I do think vaccinations are good to a point but not yearly or 3 yearly, once a dog has immunity it is there for life in most cases 7 years at least.

Not even a little peek, Perry? 

Nope

That's pretty much what Nick Thompson says too. He recommends titre testing, and boostering if necessary, using nosodes as a protection. Why not click on the link?

> Nosodes are an alternative to vaccination.

There is absolutely no evidence to support that.

> I do think it is important if you decide to give homeopathic nosodes to go to a homeopathic vet

Perry he is under a good homeopathic vet :)
By what I have read over the past year on nosodes I would also advice people to find a homeopathic vet.

>One of the homeopathic remedies that is given to minimise side effects of vaccination is Thuja, there are others but Thuja is the one that my homeopathic vet advises as does Richare Allport on his website.

I also agree with you about the Thuja.

>> Nosodes are an alternative to vaccination.
>There is absolutely no evidence to support that.

Even the official body for homoeopathic vets denies that - according to the Dogs Today article.

Ok I give up, I have clicked on the link but it doesn't take me to a Dogs Today arictle.

Jeangenie I have the past three months Dog's Today magazine and I can not find the artical, can you remember what the front cover looked like and who wrote the artical?

In fact the only Dogs Today article I can get up is this one:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/k9health/wwwchc/Vaccines%202.pdf

I found:
http://www.dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/lepto.html
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/k9health/wwwchc/Dogs%20Today%20Lepto%20Article%20Nov%202006.pdf

Read these before. Will keep hunting.

> Katt, I had a much loved 3 year old dog die after a booster and  after experiencing what he went through would never have my dogs 'over vaccinated'.  I do think vaccinations are good to a point but not yearly or 3 yearly, once a dog has immunity it is there for life in most cases 7 years at least.

I missed this post Perry so sorry.
I'm sorry to hear about your fur friend. I fully understand the heart ache you have been through :(
(((((Perry))))

I am also against over vaccinating It's disgusting that some vets are still doing yearly boosters overloading the animals immune system, the year protocol should stop I personally can not fathom why it is allowed to carry on.

For me vaccinating him can never happen, all anyone can do is make an educated choice and hope for the best for our four legged friends.

>I have clicked on the link but it doesn't take me to a Dogs Today arictle.

No, I know it doesn't. The Dogs Today article was in a recent issue of Dogs Today which I was browsing at the newsagent. The link was to a different, much shorter article, by a holistic vet.

>can you remember what the front cover looked like and who wrote the artical?

I'm afraid I can't. I was only flicking through the magazine whilst waiting for my husband when we were out shopping.

If you have a look on www.holisticvet.co.uk under research you will find information of tests carried out to prove the effects of homeopathy. 

It seems to me that if homeopathy was at all effective it would be the easiest thing in the world to replicate positive results in randomised blind trials again and again but for every trial that shows a snippet of response there are many more that show nothing consequently time and again a review of all the data shows homeopathy does not work.  Ben Goldacre deals with it pretty comprehensively I feel.
The most relevent piece perhaps.

The Jan 09 Dogs today, the artical  "When damage is done" it states:
The study group set up by wsava (world small animal veterinary association) on caccines has come up with global guidlines that categotically state that dogs and cats should not be vaccinated at more than the-yearly inervals, and then  only for core vaccines - distemper, parvovirus and adenovirus. Cor vaccines do not include leptospirosis, wich the WSAVA acknowledges as causing more adverse reactions than other vaccines. The wsava acknowledges that the vaccines can be harmeful and state titre testing should be done before revaccination.

Another interesting artical is Richard Allports.
It says figures quoted from the Brittish Medical Journal (BMJ clinical evidence) was set up to precisely to look at solid scientifically proven treatments or the lack of them.
Statistics show that 2,500 kinds of treatment examined for proof of efficancy:
13 percent could be rated beneficial
23 percent were 'likely' to be beneficial
8 percent had a trade off between benefits and harms
6 percent were unlikely to be beneficial
4 percent likely to be ineffective or harmful
46 percent were of unkown effectiveness.
The BMJCE says "The figures suggest the research community has a large task ahead."

The artical goes on to say that dogs and humans are prone to same kinds of illnesses/diseases and are given the same types of treatments.That doctors and vets daily use thousand of treatments that have no proven value and that some are causing harm.
Research into outcomes and research involving clinical trials is being carried out on natural medicines but big pharmaceutical companies are not throwing money into backing trials.
The artical goes on to say that a lot of humans and animals have positive results using natural medicines. If you make and enquiry about natural medicines to your vet and the reply is "well there is no proof that it works"  that we can now justifiably riposte with the phrase "people who live in glasshouses should not throw stones"

----------------------
Must say with the research I have done over the years I do agree with him. In my opinion if allopathic and homeopathic just start working side by side with each other this would benefit us all.

Still can not find the other artical will keep hunting....

Do you have a reference where we might see what this 2500 kinds of treatments might have consisted of?

> Research into outcomes and research involving clinical trials is being carried out on natural medicines but big pharmaceutical companies are not throwing money into backing trials.

If pilot studies were the least bit promising I am sure they would as there is a great deal of money to be made from "natural" remedies.

>Must say with the research I have done over the years I do agree with him.

Which field of research have you been involved in, if you don't mind me asking?

> Do you have a reference where we might see what this 2500 kinds of treatments might have consisted of?

This is Richard Allports research from the BMJ that was in the Dogs today article. Richard is a very forth coming guy if you request the information I'm sure he will forward it to you.

> If pilot studies were the least bit promising I am sure they would as there is a great deal of money to be made from "natural" remedies.

From the day of creation humans have been using what comes from the land for health as with science not all has benefited humans.
It's always about the money now... It shouldn't always be that way but sadly it is...

> Which field of research have you been involved in, if you don't mind me asking?

Re-vaccinating dogs that have shown adverse reactions the for and against.

wow all this as made me sit up and think about the jabs my vet gives our dogs every year !!! , the thing is sometimes i have to kennel our dogs and if the yearly jab wasnt given the kennels wouldnt take them !!! things need to change alot i think after reading this !!

> Re-vaccinating dogs that have shown adverse reactions the for and against.

Yes, but what has been your role in that?

> the thing is sometimes i have to kennel our dogs and if the yearly jab wasnt given the kennels wouldnt take them !!!

Your kennel is correct they do require some boosters annually.  You will find more information regarding what is recommended here.