i have just had a litter of vizslas and one of the bitches seems to have an open wound (hole) on her spine
the pup came out like this.
she is weak and her back end seems limp she cannot turn over on her own.
anybody with any info would be great?
if she gets better we would like to keep her but dont know how this will affect the poor mite (irriteble or painfull)in the future.

Sorry, I have no experience of this but the hole in the spine sounds very like how spina bifida often presents in humans.  I would suggest that a vet assess the pup as soon as possible.  Googling turns up some information such as http://upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/nervous%20system%20disorders/spina%20bifida.htm but until she's seen by a vet, it really is just speculation.

Good luck with her, and the rest of your litter.

I would seek veterinary opinion .. from the description I would suspect a mild form of spina bifida (congentital problem i.e problem resulting from abnormal develpment of foetus in vitro) and if that is the case this this puppy is likely to have problems with muscle weekness in quarters , poor coordination and problems with continence.

I would say spina bifida too.

I own a dog with spinabifida and you have described his spine completely.  Although I don't have Vizlas, my own vet told me that it is common in the breed.

I don't have problems with him as regards continence, but he has a weakness when turning if he is running too fast, and goes down easily.

Is there a condition like this in ridgebacks? i seam to remember reading something like this,

Just had a look its called dermoid sinus, its the canine version of the human condition, spina bifida, dont know if its the same thing in vizslas?

DS, Dermoid Sinus, is a condition RR pups can be born with. It's linked to the genes that produce the ridge. A sinus is a very small tube from the skin down towards the spine. Sometimes they go as far down as the spine and are connected to it, sometimes they are shorter. A Dermoid Sinus is not easily detected, you really have to know what you are looking (or in this case rather feeling) for. In rare occasions you can see a small irregularity in the coat, but usually there is no sign of a sinus. Neither are there any symthoms of the sinus when the pup is young, undetected you will not know a sinus is present until the sinus gets infected by skin and hair getting clogged up in the tube. This can take months.

The hole in the spine of the O.P's pup, sounds to me like something else.

> The hole in the spine of the O.P's pup, sounds to me like something else.

And I have not heard of it being a Vizsla related condition .

any breed can get dermoid sinus, just seems to appear most commonly in rhodesian ridgebacks.

> any breed can get dermoid sinus, just seems to appear most commonly in rhodesian ridgebacks.

I understand that, was referring to this statement...  I have many friends who show and breed vissi. , and I dont think they would agree with the below statement.

But I may be wrong!

> Although I don't have Vizlas, my own vet told me that it is common in the breed

sorry, hadnt fully read the thread, only scanned! to my knowledge it is not common in the vizsla.

thank you for all your helpfull replys we have had her at the vets and he confirmed it.It is common in ridgebacks he had a case 3 weeks ago in a ridgeback but not heard or seen in a vizsla.
the next 72 hours will be touch and go and said there is 2 options one of them i dont want to take the other is we orphan angel cake (my partner has named her)hope she has a pretty normal life later.
has anybody had a dog born with this condition? and how do you cope with the situation?
will there be multiple trips to the vets?

so is it dermoid sinus?

I just know I am going to sound cold and heartless, BUT, I take a deep breath and leap into oblivion! If it's that much of a problem, why didn't you euthanize the pup at the beginning? Surely there are more than enough pups, especially in the climate of 'poverty' at the moment, that keeping a sick pup alive is just unnecessary?  I'm sorry, but I really feel that if a pup is born with such a problem it should be put out of it's misery swiftly and kindly. I imagine if the problem is severe enough it needs repeated surgery then WHY? Why put her and yourselves through it? Never even mind the expense? I apologise if I upset anyone, but I just can't see the point of raising a pup with a severe physical problem...surely the Dam would desert her or even kill her in the wild wouldn't she?

I await the flying bricks and am well used to ducking...

"" have just had a litter of vizslas and one of the bitches seems to have an open wound (hole) on her spine
the pup came out like this.
she is weak and her back end seems limp she cannot turn over on her own"

A Dermoid Sinus isn't a wound. It's a very, very, very small opening in the skin, barely visible even when you've shaved the coat off, to get a better look if you suspect a sinus. The sinus is a thread-like canal, feels like a thin fishing line when you feel it through the skin.

IF this is a D.S it'd definitely not a typical one. Normally the pup isn't at all affected by it until older. And it's NO wound, just a small opening in the skin, with both hairs and skin lining it, just like on the rest of the dog.. A D.S that's severe, and connected to the spine, will be leathal for the pup if not operated on. In Sweden we put pups with D.S to sleep. It's in my way of thinking the most humane way. The alternative is to let the pup live, wait until it's at least 4 months old, and then find an EXPERIENCED vet to do the operation. Then keep your fingers crossed the op is successful. Which there are no guarantees of. Not all operations succeed. You'll not know until the pup is at least nine months old, in the mean time you will of course keep the pup, it's not ethical to sell a pup that might die in a couple of months time.

To the O.P.  I'd seriously think this over, and discuss it with my vet again.  Newfiedreams, you'll get no flying bricks from me, I agree with you, and I think it's in the pup's best interest to let it go, it's the kindest thing to do.

Thank you for your reply RR!

I was of course talking more about the Spina Bifida scenario...as you say a DS is NOT usually visible and at time only ever discovered through a problem or later x-ray and exposure. Very similar in fact to our Pilonidal Abcess...infection can cause immense problems and pain, but to my mind, it appears to be a Spina Bifida...

Sorry but I have to agree that letting this pup go is for the best - I know it is really hard and upsetting but I think that it is kinder in the long run and part of being a responsible breeder (which is one of the reasons I will never breed).

Sorry, roobls, I too agree with the others - the humane thing to do here will be to euthanise the pup.   I know its a hard decision to make - but what life will this puppy have?    Operations that will not be covered by insurance which may - or may not work.   Let it go with love.

Newfiedreams - you can take your tin hat off until tomorrow when the fluffy brigade come on!

Margot

I have to agree too, I think the kindest thiing you could do for this puppy is to end her suffering.  I had to make a decision with a week old puppy and I never regretted it either.   Why condemn them to a life of operations & ongoing problems?

i strongly agree too, having just lost a very young dog that was born with major problems, (admittdley not apparent at birth) but had them problems been known immediately alot of suffering and heartbreak can be saved by letting them go.

I also made the decision to pts a 4 week old puppy in january this year too as he was born with major problems and could only have looked forward to a life of surgery with no guarantee's - it broke my heart and i sobbed as i held him but i knew the chances of him having a happy healthy life were not good enough. comes as part of the responsibilities of doing the right thing for pups we bring into this world.

I dont envy your decisions ahead but hope you can do right for this little mite

Very hard Mandy, but exactly the right decision...so sorry you went through it though...

I think the other things to consider are...if pup is having problems moving his back end, then they sure as heck are going to have mobility problems later in life, how are you supposed to cope with that? A large dog, poor mobility and the likelyhood of poor elimination control? It's not going to be great fun is it? The more I mull it over, the more convinced I am that the pup should be PTS and out of it's misery and pain.

Earlier I mentioned the Pilonidal sinus in humans, I should have clarified that it is similar to a Spina Bifida and not the DS. It's  fault in the closure of the skin and coccyx, usually comprised of hair...but the results are the same...an open wound or infection in the cleft of the buttocks.

couldnt agree more as my poor girl who i lost 10 weeks ago had problems with her spine, so i really know all too well how heartbreaking it is to see a large breed dog unable to walk and in severe pain - totally gut wrenching to watch and even more so to have to make that choice on a dog you have grown to love and adore.

Doing the right thing now is so much kinder all round

And thank you newfiedreams for your kind words x

Glad someone appreciates me :-)...seems I'm on the 'witch hunt' list from Admin! ;-)  Critisise at your peril! :-(

Glad someone appreciates me ...seems I'm on the 'witch hunt' list from Admin!   Critisise at your peril! 


As if anyone could critisise you, or your bikini clad yorkie ;-)  I will forever fall into giggles at the memory of that thread (can't remember what the actual thread was about lol).

We as humans are caretakers of what is on this earth (hard to believe sometimes) so we need to make the best decisions for the animal, not only for us.

Another here firmly in the camp that it is kinder and more responsible to let a pup with such apparently serious issues go.

I'm sure it's not an easy decision when you're actually in the situation, but I'd like to think I had the strength to make it.

M.