Earlier this evening I answered the door to my next door neighbours daughter. She was in a right state because two of the three male staffies they had were locked in a fight! Would I come and seperate them? Not on your life! I replied.
The fight lasted about 10 minutes, I was outside listening to them. The girl kept going back in and shouting at them to stop and I kept calling her back outside, she had already got scratches on her arm and I was afraid that she was going to get bitten.
Needlesss to say I felt awful, a coward really, and although I knew the dogs were people friendly, there was no way I was going to test that out.
Eventually they stopped, only because one of them was lying still on the floor. I told her to open the back door hoping the 'victor' would go outside. Instead the other one got up and so it started again but only for a minute as the dog went back down and stayed there :(
The girl was frantic, shaken, and clearly upset - there was blood everywhere she said (I still stayed outside the front door) whilst she phoned the lad (sisters boyfirend) to come and stop them. I had phoned my vets and was prepared to take the injured dog in my car if necessary, provided they could be seperated (the third staffie was upstairs in a bedroom)
The lad then turned up, calm as you like, and just asked her why she couldn't stop them? !!! I was a bit gobsmacked by his attitude.
This fight has been coming on for ages, I know that they have to be kept apart becaue they don't get on so it could be that the young girl thought they would be ok?, or one of them got past her and managed to get to the other one, I don't know. But she was on her own. What was she supposed to do?

I haven't been round to see what the outcome was, but I do know that he never took either dog out to the vet, well not while I was watching for 30 minutes - I wasnt being nosey as such just wanted to see if  the dog got veterinary treatment. I suppose you could call it being nosey. Anyway, what I would like to know is. Is there anything, any sure fire way, of seperating two staffies without damage to anyone? Because I just know there will be a next time, and next time I don't want to stand there like a useless fool :(

do you mean locked onto each others throats of fighting in the normal way?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Missie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I just shout at my dogs.
But remeber when 2 dogs were fighting for top dog at the kennels I worked at,all dogs ran together (8+) and all bitches beside (8) and there was NEVER any problems apart from Captain and Jasper fighting for TD status occasionally.  Rightly or wrongly (this was 16+ years ago and I was only 15) I grabbed hold of the first thing that came to hand that was dog bowls, and hit them on the head with them. They stopped and went off. And were fine togther after that.
I dont know if I would have gone in to two dgs I didnt know, as the dogs I seperated I knew and had been feeding and fussing for a while.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dee}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I hope the Stffie is ok, but unfortunatly, you cant do anyting about ignorant people!!!!
Lea :)

Really the worst thing she could do was shout, as that will just encourage/excite the dogs more. There is one person needed per dog, and the correct way to separate fighting dogs is to grab hold of one set of hindlegs each and pull them apart. It's more or less impossible to do on your own, and in a serious fight nothing else will work, not even throwing buckets of water or similar over them. Lifting the hindlegs up and pulling away is the one thing that works the best, but it's vital to only go for the hindlegs to prevent getting bitten, and it MUST be one person per dog.

> There is one person needed per dog, and the correct way to separate fighting dogs is to grab hold of one set of hindlegs each and pull them apart.

If this is done while 1 dog is latched onto the other it can cause serious damage, it's best not to pull them apart untill thier mouths are 'free'. 
The first fight I ever encoutered was my mongrel attacking my friends dog, I tried hitting my dog with his lead, but he didn't flinch, we were desperate to get them seperated so I pulled my dog off while my friend pulled her dog out, it resulted in serious wounds to the other dogs neck (needed intensive care for several days) :(  if we hadn't pulled them apart while my dog had his jaws clamped on the other dog, the other dog would have only sustained, at worst, puncture wounds. I was mortified that my dog started the fight and that I had caused all the damage pulling them apart :(

I've been having a look online for the best way to break up a fight and the hind-leg appraoch seems to be the one, apparently if the dogs are latched on and you lift thier legs up and move side to side it can make them let go, then you can pull them apart safely.

Instincts take over though, don't they, it's so easy to panick, dogs fighting makes such an awfull sound :(

Fighting in the normal way? I've seen dogs have a quick 'scrap' but I wasn't watching these two, only listening from the door. I couldn't see them as they were in the kitchen, and all I know is there was a lot of blood and one of them had blood pouring from his face :(
I did tell her not to shout as she kept going in and out of the house to shout at them, I told her it would make them worse - but she is only about 16 and had probably never seen them fight like this. I know the dogs have scrapped before but the mum has been there and probably prevented it from getting any worse, I really don't know. These walls are thin and I know for the last couple of days there has been a lot of raised voices with the dogs names being shouted and you could hear the dogs chasing each other as all her floors and stairs are wooden - no carpets to deaden the sound - it was inevitable that this was going to happen sooner or later.
I am going to go round tomorrow (well later today) and see if the dogs are ok. It's been very quiet there this evening.

Sounds daft, but even though we have a 6 foot fence, tonight I have been checking the garden before I have let my troup out and its something that never bothered me before, but I daresay I will think differently tomorrow and not worry about it again.

Thanks for the advice all

Dee

The risks of owning two male staffords unfortunately...
sad :-(

I wouldn't have attempted to seperate either Missie, I also have read many times how to seperate fighting dogs but I would assess that on breed only, two Staffies no chance! I think what I would have done is fill up a bucket of cold water and throw it over them, whilst in shock and the grip on each other loosened I may have grabbed one by the scruff and tossed it outside or into another room quickly. But I would put my own safety first.  Throwing a bucket of water may have worked or it may have made one of them strike out at a human with shock, terrible situation, quite frankly they should always be seperated.

The boyfriend may well have waded in and just broke them up, but you have to know your own dogs, the poor girl must have been shaking from head to foot.

Oh I really feel for the young girl - as you know we have had a few male fights - to be honest it sounds worse than it is well with two gordons anyway - and no major damage has ever occured thank goodness - I tried to separate once and never again - got bitten totally by accident on the leg and a trip to A&E.  Ken also had a broken finger by stepping in despite me telling him not too.

Hamish went to live with my mum as you know he couldn't live in a group and was unpredictable with the other boys.

I don't think you were a coward at all Dee - sensible.

Hope the dogs are ok.   Hope the girl is ok too not a nice thing to watch at all.

I have also found using Pet Corrector can be very useful.  As said previously you need 2 people really, but you can both be ready, spray pet corrector close to their heads (it creates a loud hissing noise) it should surprise them enough to release...as they do pull by the back legs and they are seperated.  Never pull them apart while they are locked onto each other.  My Akita took a pop at our GSD and if I had pulled her off she would have taken her ear at the same time.  Instead I held her by her back end as still as possible, kept my voice low and calm telling her to leave (someone was also doing the same to the GSD) once she listened they were pulled apart with only a few scrapes.

That's just it, I've never been scared of seperating my own bitches when they've squabbled, never allowed it to get serious enough that I've feared for either one of them, but I have seen the consequences on human limbs when my friends two rottie bitches fought, and  another friends male akitas had a go, they all - human and dogs - ended up on ab's for their injuries. This is why I tried to keep the girl outside with me, why I didn't want to try to seperate. I did actually suggest that if they had been in the garden I would have turned the hose on them, so she promptly went in and chucked water over them, which didn't work - her mum willl probably love me for that suggestion LOL -
Pet corrector! Just realised I've got one of those thingies that makes a loud siren type of noise, its supposed to stop dogs from approaching? can't think what its called, but I will try and find it and keep it handy just in case.
Its gone awfully quiet now, haven't heard or seen any of the dogs in the garden today. I must pluck up courage and go and ask, I really am worried about the dogs now, especially the older one who came off worse and was the one that had crawled under the table :(

Right, thinking about it, I'm going round now

Dee

how did it go?

HOw awful!  And how stupid having 3 male staffs living together! They are known not to get on with other males together arent they? 
You were sensible for not going on, although I think I would have had to! (and probably got bitten) , ive split a fights up in the past when Ive been out and about and also one at a show (not with my dogs I must add)  and instinct is just to grab the dog by the neck and pull it while hopefully someone takes hold of the other dog.
I wouldnt try and lift the back legs off the dog as Id be far too worried I could break its legs if it had a hold on that tight!

They say throwing a coat over fighting dogs breaks them up

Judging from what you say when the girls brother turned up he didnt sound too suprised by what had happened so possibly not the first time, I do feel sorry for these dogs, and he couldnt even be bothered to take them to the vets? 
Id find out how they are and if you think they arent being cared for etc...get him reported to the rspca or even a word with the dog warden so they can go and try and give him some "advice" although that may fall on deaf ears.

Beth

Not cowardly Dee, sensible. A woman at the training club has had to go through multiple reconstructive surgeries to put her arm back together after trying to seperate her two DDBs. :( They weren't attacking her, she just got in the way.

Anyway, in the aggression class I took we were told that throwing a blanket over the dogs seemed the best method. A bucket of water may work but the blanket blocks out the light so they can't see anymore. Usually makes them divert their attention to escaping the blanket.

Poor girl, it's a good thing you were there to help her. If she had tried to seperate them on her own she might have been badly injured.

Well I went round, but no one would answer (there WAS someone in) and the dogs didn't bark either.
Just got in from work and I can only hear one dog barking. Maybe one is at the vets? Maybe they have taken one out of the equasion? I don't know. But I will find out.
Blankets/coat -  Thanks for that idea too, if it ever happens again I will try that. or maybe even suggest it to them? Hopefully it won't happen again.

Oh dear how awful, I wouldn't have gone in either, why should you get hurt when the owners had been daft enough to keep male Staffords in the full knowledge there was a fight brewing between them, that young girl probably feels really guilty about it when she was obviously not to blame, the adults in the house should have known better I'm afraid, why are people so irresponsible about dogs at times :-(

I separated a JRT that had latched onto a Mini Schnauzer by lifting the JRT's hind legs in the air..that was after several minutes of the respective owners trying all sorts of other methods (including throwing a towel over the JRT's head) to no avail and the poor Schnauzer had gone into shock.  I was lucky not to be bitten but both owners already had been by their respective dogs!

I have had to lift the back legs and wheel barrow them away from each other,most dogs are took by suprise by it,they also lose that pushing into each other
power.
The pet stop spray is useless imo when they are really meaning it.

Good Lord what a horrible story - and how sad.  I sincerely hope that idiot owner (the fella) took his dogs to the vet, I hope they both recover, and I hope the stupid man has a good long think about continuing to keep 3 males together in the future.  In a perfect world the vet would give him a lecture, but we all know that is unlikely to happen. :(

Hope the young lass is okay, its an awful thing to witness.  I get shaky seeing just a scuffle :)

Keep us posted......

aww poor young girl.
at my old work we had two male staffords come in together that got on...well thats what the owner said! they had a big fight and two people got bitten by trying to seperate them i chucked a huge bucket of water over them an they stopped instantly! both of the dogs had very bad injurys  and one of them ended up getting pts because of them!
i got bitten trying to seperate two dogs fighting when i was younger both me and a girl i worked with got the back of the dogs and the girl ended up losing grip and the dog caught my leg! ive got a huge scar there now. :-(

Oh Dee, you poor thing awful situation to be in, but I really think in this instance discretion was definatley the better part of valour.
Keep us posted, hope you get to chat with them if they haven't been to the vets then (as you've mentioned when talking about AB's) they need to be aware of the heightened infection risk to and due to bite wounds.
Good luck.

I would have tried either water or the one person per dog on the back legs method - I don't blame you for staying well out if these dogs are known to have a problem with each other though!

How awful for you.  Some years ago at a pretty old fashioned training class I went to, the trainer said he always swore by grabbing hold of a tail and sticking his finger right up its bum!!! :-o

> How awful for you.  Some years ago at a pretty old fashioned training class I went to, the trainer said he always swore by grabbing hold of a tail and sticking his finger right up its bum!!! 

Well that would CERTAINLY stop ME from doing anythig I was doing :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o
Lea :) :)

:-D :-D

I have heard this tactic a bully had a fight in a pub with a GSD some years ago and for all they tried the men at the bar could not get this dog to let go of the Alsatians throat...that's what these breeds are good at!! So some  bright spark ? put a pool cue up its bum ! he let go of the dog so all OK he did have to be taken to the vet for surgery. Even though it sounds harsh when another dog could maybe end up killed anything is worth doing.

I have sadly witnessed [ firsthand :-(] an attack- most stressful thing ever- trying to get a bull breed to let go. That was after he had killed the dog.
I think you made the right choice in not getting in between them. 

Hope the young girl is doing ok from this shocking thing.

How scary and horrible for you and the girl :(
I remember when a dog attacked my golden who was with me on a lead and the lab x would net let go of my dogs neck and ear, there were 4 adults trying to prise him off without doing damage to my boy and I had a pet corrector in my pocket and sprayed it at the dog and he ran a away.  Thankfully my boy had no serious injuries.

I was told afterwards that to stop dogs fighting to get hold of each dogs tail and pull it upwards, but I don't know whether that would work and again you would need more than one person!

Hope this situation gets sorted out but by the sound of the owner who sounds very irresponsible I doubt whether it will have a positive outcome :(

i have boxers,one male one female and a 3 month old pup, when the two older dogs both 6 yr old start theres no stopping them. its the bitch that starts it ,we have had her from a baby, the dog we got when they were both one and a half,we p[ups from the then everything went bad, she will attack him anytime but him being the bigger dog gets the better of her,and we have to keep them  separated permanatly now for the last four years.when they do occasionally get together they start.my husband says its because of me(jealous of who gets my attention) when im not there they can get together.when they last had a fight the grand kids were at the house in the paddling pool, i ended up in it trying to grab them, but it took two of us to drag them apart even to the point of, when they are clamped on holding something over the clamping dogs face and nose till they let go for breath and dragging them apart.The pup is now starting to get the treatment from the bitch as well, so i am seriously thinking of getting rid of her as she is the starter of it and no matter how much shouting or slapping down she will try going for it, it was asleep(the pup) when it first done it a few nights ago and the bitch jumped on her(scared the pup to death) she was slapped down for it and thrown out.she was sat next to me giving her evil eye(she only has one eye) and was slapped again but it made no difference. i think she need to go to a house where she will be the only one. kids can do anything to her any time,so can the pup when she doesnt get the hump

god how awful for this poor young girl.
to be left with 3 male dogs, two of which dont get on is not something i would be comertable with.
Re the hind legs appoch how would like work with a newf? as my pup ( 11 months ) is just starting that " i want to be  in charge" ) phase and my older boy is trying to put him down but hes nearly as big as him now so i can see something coming soon which could be trouble!!!

> .she was sat next to me giving her evil eye(she only has one eye) and was slapped again but it made no difference

By 'slapped down' do you mean you actually slapped the dog? If so this may well be a contributing factor to the dogs agressive outbursts :(

> Re the hind legs appoch how would like work with a newf? as my pup ( 11 months ) is just starting that " i want to be  in charge" ) phase and my older boy is trying to put him down but hes nearly as big as him now so i can see something coming soon which could be trouble!!!

I imagine it would be very hard to pick a dog that size up by his hind legs, I wouldn't even try it with my dog, a kick from one of his rear legs can send me flying (LOL, that's happened in play a few times!!), there is no way I would grab both of his back legs and try to pick them up, just think of the damage they could cause kicking you in the face :(

I think the safest bet would be to try to use water, or a broom to seperate them?

When it comes to your own dogs, I think it's best to everything you can to avoid a fight in the first place, (supervising interaction etc..). It would be worth posting this as a new topic, I'm sure you will get plenty of good advice regarding managing 2 males.

i have three males all together the older is neuted but this doesnt make any diffence to who whats to be in charge.
The 2 1/2 year old is fine and " knows his place " but the pup is being a little upstart!!!!
i know that the hind leg appoch wouldnt work that was supposed to be a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!

slapping her nose to try to make her think of something elae other than who she wants to jump on. we have tried water, pulling the back legs,throwing things over them. we have kept the dog and bitch separated for the last four yrs and now have a dog run which two go in at a time during the day. that just leaves the night time where they one is locked up the stairs and the others are in the main room with us and keep switching them round.By slapping her i am trying to make sure she behaves and knows who is the boss(but it doesnt all ways work)

> The pup is now starting to get the treatment from the bitch as well, so i am seriously thinking of getting rid of her as she is the starter of it and no matter how much shouting or slapping down...................................

:-O :-(

You got a puppy knowing what your bitch was like ??? Words fail me

If the bitch is as grumpy as you say, and has only one eye, she's unlikely to find a new home easily. Kinder to all to rehome the pup (and maybe the older boy too, because you say she was fine until he arrived) and keep the old lady to the end of her natural life.

> i know that the hind leg appoch wouldnt work that was supposed to be a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, sorry, I didn't realise it was a joke, I just got this horrendous image of somebody trying to lift a Newfie's back legs up while it was scrapping and getting a huge foot planted smack in the nose!

> slapping her nose to try to make her think of something elae other than who she wants to jump on. we have tried water, pulling the back legs,throwing things over them.

All these things will only make matters worse, she has no chance of forming a positive relationship with the others if she is associating all theses nasty things with them, you could actually have taught her to be aggresive by doing this :(
You say that the dogs get on if you are not there & they are with your husband, this seems to suggest that they don't have a problem with each other as such, it's more to do with how YOU are treating them (favouring the submissive dog can lead to problems etc..)
If you can't/aren't willing to try to work these issues out with a behaviourist using positive methods, I agree with Jeangenie, it's far kinder to keep her and rehome the others.

Please, whatever you do, re-think your methods, reward based training and positive associations, thinking ahead/reading situation to set your dog up for sucess are all far kinder, nicer and in the long run more effective than aversives (IMO).

As yet I haven't been able to catch sight of the girl yet and I won't go round while the other daughter or her boyfriend are there as I know I will be wasting my time. As far as I can make out the dog that wasn't involved is still there, and kept upstairs, but I can only hear one barking downstairs which is, I'm sure, the younger of the two that were fighting.
Sorry I don't know more.

To leslie marie,
There is a motto
If you treat a dog mean it will become mean...

Your harsh training methods have made your pack live in disarray. How would you like to be slapped in the face ?
If you have been hitting your dogs in the face for the last 4 years or so and now she has started on your pup... then maybe its time to try a new less aggressive training approach?

[url=]The pup is now starting to get the treatment from the bitch as well, so I am seriously thinking of getting rid of her as she is the starter of it and no matter how much shouting or slapping down...................................[/url]
 

[url=]You got a puppy knowing what your bitch was like ??? Words fail me [/url]

And me!!!!!!!!!  I would dearly love another pup, (to show) but as I have a dog aggressive bitch here... she loves her big bruv..(no relation)   but there is not a chance in hell I would ever bring another dog into my home while she is still here, and as she is only 6... it is going to be a long time till that day comes(hopefully)..why take the chance.

And to treat her so badly (smacking her down)  for  the owners mistake is beyond me....if she was aggressive to the existing dog, why would you think she will except another one!!!!!!!

I think this pup is the result of breeding the other two, isn't it?

by smacking the bitch before she does ATTACK i am hoping to draw her attention to the fact that she is doing wrong, and by doing wrong she will get a smack,i know when she is about to do it and am trying to stop it before a fight starts. if a fight starts and im on my own who do i call ghost busters. you cannot sit a dog down and explain its being naughty, and send it to a naughty corner,she has been shouted at things thrown over them. water hosed down on them loud noises etc.  she does,nt all ways want to fight its been a few years since the last one and  she just wants to show who is boss. IM the boss and she should,nt forget it. i have had to separate my big dogs fighting quite a few times over nothing and am now at the stage of trying to stop it before it starts again(if it does)have,nt you heard of prevention is better than cure(a smack is cheaper than vets bills).i am not agressive with my dogs they do as they are told normally and get spolit rotten for being good dogs. dont dogs get PMT.!!!!!

In my opinion you should NEVER smack any dog. no wonder the dog is aggressive its probably terrified of you !!!!!

You can try rewarding the dog for good behaviour with treats, that way (hopefully) it will learn the basics, I really think you need to go back to basics as if the dog has just been brought into the home and try different kinder methods of training.

The dog should not be the boss, you should !!!!

Dont think dogs get PMT sounds as though you have though.!!!