Check your facts smacking is allowed if it does not leave a mark. Stop jumping down every time some one leaves a remark you do not like. You are not my mentor, you do not have the right to read anyone the law.Now you have stopped someone else posting that may have needed our help at a later date. well done!!

My heart is still with you, I am so sorry for what you have had to go through and I pray for you to stay strong, as I'm sure you will need to just take one day at a time for a while yet.
So glad they are safe and well.

Karen ;)

Great news, so glad they are back and wishing you and your family all the best for the future.

Oh Diane, I am so pleased that they're home safe and well, regardless of the situation surrounding their return.  Well done to you and your husband for making them call the police, that must have been such a hard decision for you, but really the only way your girls will learn the consequences of their actions.  I hope your girls realise that you acted out of love for them and that things settle down.

Best wishes

Simone x

I am so glad they are home safe despite the circumstances, what a relief that must be for you :)

Pleased to hear the girls are now back home and safe, its such a worry when they do things like that, my oldest son (now 41) went missing when he was 13yrs old and I never saw him for 2 yrs, he was found hiding in someones wardrobe by the Police and returned home.  I couldnt reply sooner as I knew what you were going through,lets hope the night in the cells has worked for them and they will think twice before doing anything like that again.

Diane. I am so pleased to hear that your girls are back home.
I hope you got some rest last night knowing they are safe.
Take care of yourself.

Victoria

> Did you go bail them out or did you let them sit there for awhile

As they were missing and had not slept in over 24 hours the police said they were not fit for interveiw and had to remain in the cells over night, I hope this will be a lesson well learnt, they did both say that it wasn't nice, they were with a friend too so all three had been in the cells, although my youngest didn't steal anything she was with them and treated the same.

> Can you maybe get them into a sport or something to keep them busy something they would enjoy? My son has ADHD and I found taekwon-do to be a great help with him-

Chelsea the one with ADHD used to attend mai thai boxing, she was excellent at it and of course she could channel her energy/frustration into that, she became so good she could of done competions,she started in 2001 when she was 8years old, she broke her arm and lost confidence the got back into it for awhile then gave it up, she went back again, in between times she has done football too, both my girls have done dance and signing lessons, i dont mind them doing outside activities, i keep asking them now what they'd like to do, my youngest goes army cadets now, but the eldest isn't interested in anything no matter how much I try.

They both know there grounded now, and have had certain things confiscated ie internet acces, dvd's.

Right now Im just pleased there back and safe. :-)
Diane xx

Diane - I'm so pleased your girls are safely back, hopefully with them experiencing what they have done, they will perhaps consider the consequences before they do anything like that again. :-)

> They both know there grounded now, and have had certain things confiscated ie internet acces, dvd's.

Diane, I've been reading this thread with my heart in my mouth and can't imagine what you've been through - I'm really pleased to know they are 'safely' home now.

I'm sure you know this but I wondered if it was worth mentioning perhaps to others who may be reading:  when kids are grounded and have lost other privileges it's very easy for them to think 'it can't be worse so what's the point of changing'.  It's also very easy to turn you into the bad guy (parents are always the bad guy when you are a teenager?!).  Remember to give your girls a strategy where the reinstatement of privileges can be earnt.  I'm sure that grounding isn't one you wish to move on for a while but if you can be flexible about the other things it gives them a little power back.

If you can give them a reminder than all actions have consequences and that being nice/good/fair/helpful (whatever you choose) gets nice/good/fair/helpful in return you might find you can coax out a little cooperation rather than defiance.  Be really clear about what you want to see/hear so that they can be allowed to watch TV, go on the internet, phone friends etc.  You don't have to reinstate it all in one chunk but one good deed maybe gets an hour of TV or a DVD to watch.  I know it may sound a little simplistic but teenage years can be a real struggle for identity and control and you really want them to work with you a bit rather than constantly pushing against you.

I've seen this working to good effect with a foster carer I know and hope it's advice that may help others.  Sometimes anything is worth a try right?  Thinking of you all xxx

Hi Diane
Im so sorry to hear of all the heartache youv'e been going throu, ive not been on for ages so have just caught up. Im pleased they were found safe and well. I just hope your turning a corner now, and things will start getting better for you.
Marie xx

> Check your facts smacking is allowed if it does not leave a mark.

where did you make that law up whistler.  the law can be found here http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/10/18406/28339 Giving children 'a good hiding' as you describe it has been illegal for the last 5 years.

>Stop jumping down every time some one leaves a remark you do not like. You are not my mentor, you do not have the right to read anyone the law.Now you have stopped someone else posting that may have needed our help at a later date. well done!!

I think you are going a bit OTT with that remark.  child protection is everyone's business and assualting children is wrong.  Do you train your dogs with positive methods or do they get a 'good hiding' too?

Whistler is correct- smacking is allowed as long as it doens't leave a mark. Not saying I agree/disagree, but that is definitely the law in the UK. I also think your little disagreement is out of order considering how much stress the OP has gone through. I think others will agree that it doesn't belong on this thread.

>where did you make that law up whistler.

It could be that, as is often the case, the law in Scotland is different to that in England and Wales. South of the border smacking is legal as long as it leaves no mark, as Whistler said.

But this has nothing to do with Diane's thread.

Areed I apologise. I thought that the remark made was in appropriate to the person as she had obviously had problems herself, she changed her thread but was castigated wrongly I tried to defend her as I had been there as well its only by fighting you find yourself after going through abuse. Cheekie Chows comment re my dogs is again a reaction of someone with a problem taking critisism, and has been pointed out she is wrong on the law as well.  My apologies to other readers and Diana. it was not the place.

> Right now Im just pleased there back and safe

I can't imagine how relieved you must feel, I hope the girls now realise the consequences of their actions & will think about their actions before they run off next time.

I would imagine the next few months will be difficult for you as you try to address all the problems you have with them but remember CD is always here & as you have seen bythe overwhelming about of support, help & advice you have received during this terrible incident.

I hope you had a well deserved glass of something strong when you heard the news...

but remember CD is always here & as you have seen bythe overwhelming about of support, help & advice you have received during this terrible incident.

>

Yes I know and I'm truly grateful and immensely touched by everyone's concern and support.

> I hope you had a well deserved glass of something strong when you heard the news...

I/We never as a rule hold our breath for to long and rightly so, today whilst at a meeting the eldest has gone again three days after coming home, there are know words to describe how I feel I know she is safe but still its worrying, and soul-destroying, it's just awaiting game again.

Diane xx

Oh Diane - so sorry to read this.   Be strong though - you are doing the right thing.

{{hugs}}

Margot x

and i don't know any parents personally that have NEVER smacked their children.

I certainly NEVER have and would never dream of it either.

today whilst at a meeting the eldest has gone again three days after coming home, there are know words to describe how I feel I know she is safe but still its worrying, and soul-destroying, it's just awaiting game again.

I am so sorry, fingers crossed again. :(

>I certainly NEVER have and would never dream of it either.

Yes but you've had your kids part time over the years,they all live with their father don't they?
And if neither you nor their dad ever tapped/smacked them on the bot,then good on you,you must very patient parents :)

Ktee that is a totally unnecessarily personal remark :-(  You know nothing about other peoples child care arrangements.  There are children all over the world who live between both parents and I cannot see why those parents are any less likely to achieve the same level of agreement on these matters as parents living in the same home.

Thanks Isabel! Ktee my children are with me EVERY weekend of the year (this is why I so seldom am online at weekends) and longer over school holidays, always -and lived with me full time for years. I had ten years of having children with me all of the time. The hardest years in this respect, I dare say -I don't suppose anyone would go around smacking teenagers...... (although hand on heart, I did whack my 6 foot tall 19 year old stepson on the backside last week! Not that he felt it -he's that much bigger than me and I'm not small!)

>Ktee that is a totally unnecessarily personal remark

Isabel can you please stop drawing the personal card,it's starting to get OTT!

>You know nothing about other peoples child care arrangements.

I know what has been written on here by Marianne re; her kids living arrangements,it's here for the world to see,which is what i based my post on,nothing personal or vindictive in it at all!

My point was that when you only have kids on the weekends you rarely get to that boiling point.

> Isabel can you please stop drawing the personal card

Then stop doing it.  How would you feel if people started commenting on your very strange back story?

> My point was that when you only have kids on the weekends you rarely get to that boiling point.

It's not going to be much different to their waking hours during the school week I would have thought.

>How would you feel if people started commenting on your very strange back story?

People do,regularly.But you can't argue with the truth ;)

>Then stop doing it.

It's not just me you do it to,it's one of your most common sayings around here. And there was nothing personal meant in my post,like i said it was garnered from a public forum.

>It's not going to be much different to their waking hours during the school week I would have thought.

Very,very different! My son lived with his Dad for the better part of a year,and came with me on weekends and holiday's,and i hardly ever had to tell him off.He was good as gold here,very much different to when he was living with me full time ;)

> People do,regularly.But you can't argue with the truth ;-)
>

Quite a few of us on this board can 'suss out' a liar as liars have to have good memories don't they?

Anyway, Diane, I am so sorry that this has happened again, I can't really say anything to give you comfort.  The one good thing that might come out of this is that when your younger daughter sees what you are going through now, she will realise the error of her ways.  I hope so.  Keep your chin up!

Ok Guys,

This thread started as a plea for support and comfort from a very distressed Mum. It has escalated into a thread where people's childcare, child rearing and family circumstances are being judged. I am sure that the OP did not intend that.

I do not want to lock the thread as I am sure we would ALL like to know the outcome and offer any support we can.

PLEASE focus on the OP as your target for advice, comfort, support and thoughts................

Diane

I wish that you would lock it so that Diane can start a new thread where positive messages of support can be sent without having to trawl through others bickering .

Diane , my thoughts are with you .

Ive been following this thread and holding my breath with everyone else that they should be found safe and well.  Now the eldest one has gone missing again.  Im wondering what sort of support you have to help you through this and if you have a counsellor/social workers/family support worker or anything like that in place.  (Im presuming you have, but not sure). Is there anything anyone from a child team from outside the family to help this girl sort out why she keeps bolting?  Can a GP refer you to anyone, or any other networks out there that could offer you some much needed support in this sort of crisis.  Has she had any sort of 1-2-1 counselling or got a mentor of any kind?  I work with children with special needs, and I do know how very very challenging they can be, not just to themselves, but to other people as well, so I do have some understanding of children in crisis (because that is what is happening).

What about support for you, have you got family around you that are supporting you? Non virtual friends that can just give you a hug or pass you tissues?

Whatever the family circumstances, whatever the buildup and the reasons behind it, a child running off constantly is probably the most traumatic thing a parent could ever go through, and I should imagine that when they come back you dont know whether to hug them or shout at them.

so glad they have been found.
i was thinking of you just now and wondering how you were doing.
hope all is okay.
xx

> I/We never as a rule hold our breath for to long and rightly so, today whilst at a meeting the eldest has gone again three days after coming home, there are know words to describe how I feel I know she is safe but still its worrying, and soul-destroying, it's just awaiting game again

I have no idea what to say to you :( You haven't had chance to get over your girls going missing and then the eldest is gone again....... Even as a mother myself, I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling right now :(

I hope your daughter returns soon and stays long enough for you all to try to make some progress.

I feel for you.  Whatever techniques you support workers are using/advising obviously aren't working for your daughter. :(

My experience with teachers and social workers is that they use whatever is the latest 'approved' technique of the moment, without accepting that we (and children) are all so different and what works for one isn't necessarily the best way of handling another.  I sincerely hope that they find the right way to communicate and make mental contact with your daughter so that your family life can be stable again soon. :)

Hi all just a quick update, she started making her way down to her grandad's last night and he picked her up around midnight, she was brought home to us today.

Oh thank heavens, Diane!    The fact that she was making her way down to her Grandad's is surely a sign that she does want to be with her family.

{{hugs}}}

Margot

Thank goodness she's safe!

I was wondering, if she was trying to get to her granddad's, would it be possible for her to stay with him for a while? Or if not him, then perhaps an aunt or someone? Just to give you all a break from what must be an incredibly tense and volatile situation. It might give everyone a breathing-space in which to try to work out something more permanent. Just a thought.

Another sigh of relief Diane..its a good sign she was making her way to grandads.. I hope things settle soon..

Thank goodness she's home safe Diane. :)

I am so glad shes home now, i really feel for you with all the worry you've had, sending you a big cyber hug ((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))

Take care
Hayley x

I am so glad that she is back safe and sound Diane, let us all hope that they are both home to stay.  Take Care. x

Glad that she is home for a second time Diane, how utterly soul destroying, what on earth is going on in her head.

Has she said what she is finding so attractive outside the home, is it finding friends to drink with? When I read the activities that you have had your children involved in, I just thought what a good mum you've really tried, finding our teenagers an interest is usually half the battle, your younger daughter is in cadets, well done! :-) Sports are always a great asset and great at working away those raging hormones, you've honestly tried haven't you............ gone are the days when you can just lock a wayward teenager in the house with you, they would probably pick the phone up and call the police. Tut, Tut.

I really don't know what I would do in your case apart from keep her in and accompany her everywhere so that she does not run off again, you keep giving her chances and even after last time, she has still run off again. When our children are toddlers we watch them 24/7 as they grow that changes, but IMO teenagers are just as vulnerable if not more so than toddlers as they have hormones raging.

I don't know whether this will be any help whatsoever and I have boys as opposed to your girls, but I purposly had a downstairs room converted into a gym type room for when my boys turned teenagers, to help with the rebellion and hormonal changes, if my boys get up and come across a bit crouchy I tell them to go and have a run or box for 20 mins or so, they do that have a shower and are nice happy boys for breakfast or dinner, but cycling, jogging, swimming (where you can go and keep an eye on them too) are all things you can do together and get rid of that pent up energy and emotions which come out the wrong way in teenagers. They will probably say no way, we're not being seen jogging with you mum! :-D But ask them to give it a go, it's amazing how it bonds and makes you all feel good.

You need to do more things together to keep your oldest daughter out of harms way and off the streets and give you all that bond once more.

Good luck, I'll be thinking of you along with everyone else.

Sometimes when families reach crisis point it can benefit everyone to have some time out. I am lucky enough to have my children reach adulthood without any major problems but my work does involve me with families that have been less fortunate than ours. Sometimes families are so entwined within the problems they are living through that it is difficult to see which way to turn. As suggested by someone else perhaps some time out from the family home would enable you all to take a breather and reassess your daughter's difficulties and the best way to go forward from this point in time.

Your eldest daughter was trying to get to her grandad's house so would it be possible for her to stay with him or somebody else from your extended family? Sometimes we get so caught up in the situations we find ourselves in that it becomes almost impossible to step back and look at the situation from a different viewpoint. You obviously love your daughter very much and this may be a way for you both to have a possible way out of the circle of circumstances that you are in at the moment.

I am so relieved and happy for you that she has been found safe and well.

Diane, does she or has she given any indication why she goes off like this on a regular basis?

I deal with missing children in my job as well as missing adults and sometimes they do give indications as to why they don't want to be at home right there and then. Also like to point out that people from all walks of life go missing.

What i have found with children and teens who go missing is that someone knows where they are and it appears that many friends or better still aquaintences close ranks and state they have no idea where they are, when in actual fact they do, so we have to do a full sweep of all friends houses as well.

Some of the children tend to go to the same homes each time and if this is owned by an adult who thinks that the child is allowed there then we don't get any call. We then basically turn up in the middle of the night and wake the house up and search them.. Adults not happy so in the end that child either gets banned from the household or each time they turn up that childs parents get called before the Police arrive. Not sure if your local force work on this process?

I have no idea what the answer is in your stopping what she is doing as i haven't see a solution for this before either. It is very distressing for parents and i just hope to god your daughter comes to her senses before too long.
Do you give her money at all? I know that children/teens who go missing seem to have money on them, those who don't, don't tend to stay away for very long.

Big hugs to you and just hope that she stays at home for that little bit longer this time

Such a difficult age Diane. I have a daughter of 14 too and the last year has been like walking on eggshells without the added complication of ADHD. I hope you can get some resolution to the problem soon. Its frightening when they start to go missing regularly like this as I do think the authorities start to take each disappearance a little less seriously. I'm glad she is home and hope she stays put for a while this time.

> I was wondering, if she was trying to get to her granddad's, would it be possible for her to stay with him for a while? Or if not him, then perhaps an aunt or someone? Just to give you all a break from what must be an incredibly tense and volatile situation. It might give everyone a breathing-space in which to try to work out something more permanent. Just a thought.

Her grandad is grateful for any comapany as his wife (my OH mum) died suddenly last June, so he relishes this, but he is also disabled can on good days walk about 50 yards, Chelsea knows he is a soft touch and that is why she goes there, it is also worrying that her grandad is out so late picking her up, sometimes at 1 or 2am etc we are worried about his safety too, yes she can stay there but its not a good solution, she has at times stayed at my sister's who lives miles away from us in Biggin Hill Kent, but on return she just acts the same, sometimes she gets embarrased and ashamed, but  she has no remorse and can not see the consequences, it fact she just doesn't care, at times she can be the most wonderful teen and ( I hate using this word) normal. The other problem with her staying somewhere else is schooling, Chelsea has had since 2001 about 2 1/2 - 3 years of missed school due to behaviour or school not coping with her and changing schools for more support.
When things became very bad last Feb-March she was sent to my parents who live in Tenerife for a month to take some time to think about her life etc, but again on return just acted the same. We love her so much and would do anything for this to stop i'm so desperate now.

> Diane, does she or has she given any indication why she goes off like this on a regular basis?

When she went missing just before school's half term (end of October) this year, but was attending school ( she loves her new school and hates missing a day) I know that sounds abit odd, we decided that as no-one would take any action ie school, social services etc (and it being last day of term and then no-one knowing where should be, as she wouldn't touch base everyday at school) we would so we went up to her school, (she had been missing three days by now) and "snatch and grab her" we knew this would be physical and no doubt would be called all the names under the sun but we had to get her back home. Some of her school teachers were not happy about what we were doing neither were social services or the A.R.T team but tough titty's we wanted her home, so we got her, yes it was a struggle and I was lucky not to get a black eye altough we both had multiple bruises from her variety of kicks and punches, the name calling and other verbal just goes over our heads we've heard it all before so just ignore it, but she did yell at us she went missing because we do not love her and we do not give her as much attention now that she behaves whilst in school.

> Some of the children tend to go to the same homes each time

Yes very true she used to go to places where she could do whatever she wanted because the adults (so called) didn't care a hoot, we have nothing like you have though, the police managed to get the tenants moved after lots of complaints which was great.

> I have no idea what the answer is in your stopping what she is doing as i haven't see a solution for this before either.

There is no magic answer we just hope she grows out of it and quickly before i go crazy.

> Do you give her money at all? I know that children/teens who go missing seem to have money on them, those who don't, don't tend to stay away for very long.

She has no money we don't give her pocket money normally when they want something we buy it for them.

she went missing because we do not love her and we do not give her as much attention now that she behaves whilst in school.


Have you tried the simplest thing, a hug, all the praise in the world often is not as powerful as a hug and a I love you, doing that a few times a day, not just when a child has been good, but as a daily routine often sends the strongest message possible, it's a little one to one with a strong meaning.

I've noted that you have sent her off to Tenerife, her older sisters and her grandfathers on occassion. I'm no child psychologist but IMO this does not work, I've often heard people at the end of their tether send their child away for a break, a home for a while (or if seperated to the other partner) hopefully to help them realise what they are missing at home and to also re-charge the parents batteries, I feel this causes nothing but resentment and compounds the feeling that they are unloved, I've seen this backfire twice with two colleagues and their children as difficult as they were saw sending them to someone else as a backward step, they may well behave at the new 'home' but they dislike their parents abhorently for sending them away and will once more act up when home.

Some of her school teachers were not happy about what we were doing neither were social services or the A.R.T team but tough titty's we wanted her home, so we got her, yes it was a struggle and I was lucky not to get a black eye altough we both had multiple bruises from her variety of kicks and punches, the name calling and other verbal just goes over our heads we've heard it all before so just ignore it,


I know that she is ADHD, but could she also (as one of our memebers on another post) be hormonal, has she had blood tests to check this out, she is the right age for PMS also. Also is she on medication for her ADHD, my friends sons behaviour changed miraculously after medication.

Have you asked her why she now behaves in school?  What are they doing?  Have they switched onto what makes her behave?  Something they are doing is rewarding her, if you can speak to them to find out exactly what is happening you might be able to work with the school to improve your daughter's behaviour all round.

It's very difficult because often children punish the people they love the most because they know that with you the love is unconditional.  She knows this even if she's not feeling it because your actions speak volumes.  Unfortunately having a difficult teen in the house takes its toll on the whole family so that no one is actually happy.  Have you seen an expert on ADHD?

Don't you just love the little darlings?  I do empathise, I had a difficult teen although she wasn't ADHD.

Diane, Ive had a long think about all this, my eldest son is ADHD, dyslexic and a number of other things which is how I got into Special Needs Teaching in the first place.  I think your daughter is showing classic signs of Oppositional Conduct Disorder, which very often goes hand in hand with ADHD. There is normally a chemical imbalance in the brain with ADHD, and my eldest son has a dopamine transmission problem between both sides of his brain, nothing I could have done, he was born with it, you just have to find out how to manage it. Its probably the same with your daughter, so dont blame yourself in any way. I really really think that it wouldnt do any harm to get in contact with one of the countries leading specialists in ADHD.  He is the person that Great Ormand Street deal with, and I took my eldest to see him when we were at our most desperate.  Im not sure if I can put the link on here, but will try, http://www.lanc.uk.com/ Dr Kewley and his team will be able to support you and help you. We got referred through our GP, but you can self refer, get health insurance to pay or go private.  He helped us through the most desperate times and REALLY knows what he is doing.  Even if you just phone him and ask for advice, he is so approachable.  Im not advertising him, I dont work for him, but Diane needs some help and he maybe able to.

Marianne, I added a reply about peoples honesty, (and we all know who that is!)BUT I don't want to detract from the OP as reminded by the Mod...I apologise to everyone...