Hi All,
Well my little boy is becoming very big and has just began to cock his leg to wee, which we were very proud of initially!!!!!
Now he has taken to cocking and weeing on everything, My bitches, My daughter, My coat, The cat, His crate........
Any guesses as to how long this show of "manhood" is likely to last? He is only 6 months 2 weeks old.
He defiantly is house trained and has been for months, so not quite sure how to stop this "marking of territory" so any tips???
We don't want to go around stinking of weee!!!! :(
Paula

Hi Paula,

if he's cocking his leg indoors he's not got the concept of being fully housetrained :)  My youngster started cocking his leg a few months back and isn't allowed to inappropriately scent mark outdoors never mind indoors LOL.  He's given the opportunity to empty his bladder last thing at night and first thing on waking so just as with my bitches, if he doesn't need 'to go' then he doesn't go.

Be firm, give a loud "Ah, ah" at any sign he's intending to mark yourself, kids, crate, door post, ANYTHING / ANYWHERE when inside.  He has to know that it's not acceptable.  The "Ah, Ah" should break his concentration at which point you take his collar and go into the garden with him immediately, saying your command word used in early days of training.  Be consistent and he'll learn that peeing is peeing whether with or without a cocked leg and it's an absolutely no-no in the home or ON the residents :-D

For outdoor walks I'd suggest you don't let him glue his nose to the ground, fences, lamp posts etc either when on lead.  He should be allowed to relieve any pressure in his bladder when first going out and then not allowed to do so again until you want him to or until you are in a secure place he can play and scent mark to his heart's content outside and off lead :)

Be firm, positive and consistent with nipping this behaviour in the bud or you'll be following him around with a mop forever and he'll be dragging you here there and everywhere on walks for the next 10-16 years because he hasn't been taught otherwise.

It's do-able kiddo :)
HTH Teri

This "show of manhood" isnt him actually coming out of puppyhood, but going backwards. Okay, so now he is cocking his leg, but weeing in the house is like when he was  a pup and need to be nipped in the bud immediately.
My rules are simple: Freddie wees outside not inside!! :-) I dont care where he goes in the garden, nor do i care if he wants to mark 10 lamposts :-) I think to start with go back to basics and give lots of praise when he wees outside. If needs be, put him in the garden to relieve himself every hour or so to ensure he has the chance to do it. Then if you feel the need like Teri to control where he goes outside - follow her methods.

Hi Terri,
Do you really think that it is related to house training because until he started to cock his leg he has never had an accident in the house since he was 10 weeks old? It would seem a little strange after such a long time.
He doesn't need a wee he just squirts a few drops on things he feels he "owns", and over the spot where the girls have had a wee outside.
When out walking he doesn't mark, in fact he has only just started to be confident enough to wee outside of his own garden!
Anyway, I work from home so I can begin the house training again if you think that will help, he has access to outside always as we put in a dog flap once we thought he didn't need us standing outside watching him. :)
I have been doing the sharp AH, AH and he immediately stops and looks startled as though he didn't realise he was doing it, but I haven't been taking him outside straight away, will try this next time.
Thanks again.
Paula 

Hi Paula,

if any dog is doing it's business inside when already apparently fully trained it's either a health issue (not the case I'm sure with your boy :) ) or because it hasn't fully made the connection that weeing indoors is a no-go.  Just because he can spray his personal perfume to higher regions than previously doesn't mean he should - but he doesn't know that yet for whatever reason so you have to teach him.

Scent marking is instinctive, but then so are lots of other behaviours we modify - excessive barking, roaming, growling, snapping, biting so why we would put up with scent marking :)  I love owning males but I suspect nobody would have them as house pets if this were par for the course and something which couldn't be prevented - luckily it's neither!

By preventing him and also immediately taking him outside, he will make the same association with scent marking as he initially did with toiletting outside as a younger puppy.  It's not a big deal to break the habit, fairly straightforward really, just that many dogs make the association more readily than others.  They're much like kids - some learn quickly, others more slowly, but with patience and consistency we can get them to understand what we want of them.

Best wishes, Teri

Hi Freds Mum

> nor do i care if he wants to mark 10 lamposts

I don't let any of mine mark any lamp posts at all as it happens in case they are electrocuted - it happens, rarely, but always a possibility so not for mine.

> Then if you feel the need like Teri to control where he goes outside - follow her methods

LOL, control isn't big around here BUT anyone owning a dog that can take them off their feet is better ensuring that the chances of them doing so are minimal :)  If I only had a toy/miniature poodle perhaps I'd not care either (although I'd get fed up with the stop/start routine when trying to reach the park or beach for eg) but as soon as we get around the 20kg + weight suddently thrusting forward or across us it gets considerably trickier to keep upright on wet leaves, frosty pavements, ice etc and TBH even on fine summer days :)

Each to their own of course but I think it's worth mentioning as part of an ongoing training regime that if somebody is putting the effort in to not be dragged here there and everywhere just from a pleasant walk POV then including the regulating where and when they can sniff and mark is part and parcel of getting that message across (if they wish).  I wouldn't let them wee on wheels of cars, doorposts, entrances to folks driveways either - but that's more of a manners thing :)

Hi, Yes defiantly looks instinctive marking rather than just needing a wee and so going wherever he happens to be standing.
Can't imagine its health as he is fit, active, and eating well. but will keep that in mind.
I'll make sure he gets the message and tell all the family about putting him outside if he does it, and OH about not allowing him to sent mark outside. (Men would prob think its a macho thing until he wees on him :).)
I have had boys before but can't remember this happening. Charlie is defiantly teaching me new things and its a good job he's so lovable, because he is a.....***@@@** ahem....demanding pup!!!  :) :) :)
Paula

Hi, Yes defiantly looks instinctive marking rather than just needing a wee and so going wherever he happens to be standing.
Can't imagine its health as he is fit, active, and eating well. but will keep that in mind.
I'll make sure he gets the message and tell all the family about putting him outside if he does it, and OH about not allowing him to sent mark outside. (Men would prob think its a macho thing until he wees on him :).)
I have had boys before but can't remember this happening. Charlie is defiantly teaching me new things and its a good job he's so lovable, because he is a.....***@@@** ahem....demanding pup!!!  :) :) :)
Paula

sorry, cat sat on laptop and sent it again (prob wants to make double sure he doesn't get weed on again!!! )
:)
Paula

Hi Paula,

I'm sure it is just an age thing - just didn't want anyone to google and find that sudden weeing indoors is always scent marking in case looking for advice re an older dog suddenly becoming incontinent for example (the trouble with search facilities is that it's not always as specific as required LOL).

My latest boy is a little  'ahem' too :-D  I think it's too easy to forget how they try and test us and of course some have more annoying habits than others (my latest is aiming for off the scale :-p ).  We can compare notes!

My friend's Dobe was like this when he reached puberty.  They came home one day to find he had fused the Electrics by peeing into a socket!!!

Oh dear! I hope the dog was ok.
Charlie only seems to do it on things he thinks are of great value to him, the female doggies, the daughter who had just been playing with him, my coat that I wear for walkies, his soft crate (used as his bed during day time and at shows)....... the only puzzle is the cat!?!?
But action has already been taken on the putting outside, so I hope it will stop as quickly as it started otherwise he will end up on Dill's "Dog for sale" list!! ;)
Paula

I'm with you Teri. My dog gets to relieve himself in a designated area where I give him the OK. Unless he is offlead, then he can mark every blad of grass if he wants. I hate dogs that walk down the road weeing on absolutely everything. It's not pleasant to get into your car when it's dripping with some dog's urine. It's not pleasant to enter a building where dogs have been marking the door jam. My friend had a dead hedge purely from the neighbor letting his dog cock his leg on it every time they went by.

It is very pleasant to walk down the road without getting your arm jerked out of its socket because young sir decided to claim another piece of the world as his. This sort of control comes in handy at shows too. I'd be mortified if my dog cocked his leg on a ring post

> For outdoor walks I'd suggest you don't let him glue his nose to the ground, fences, lamp posts etc either when on lead.  He should be allowed to relieve any pressure in his bladder when first going out and then not allowed to do so again until you want him to or until you are in a secure place he can play and scent mark to his heart's content outside and off lead

I'm with Teri too on this one.  It's isn't pleasant round other peoples gates, cars etc (recycling bins/bags - yuk), but the other reason I don't allow it is that it just wastes time!!  We live in village and only have relatively short stretches on lead before they can mooch about off lead.  If I had let my youngest dictate the pace when he first started cocking his leg we'd never have got anywhere. 

My main problem is that once they are off lead they both have a habit of walking into the others 'stream' - I've no idea why they can't look where they are going, or perhaps they are so busy covering another dogs mark that they genuinely dont notice the other is there first and has already started.

Our other latest 'boy nuisance' is caused by something crossing our garden overnight.  The youngster is so busy following this new exciting trail that he can't be bothered to stop and go properly so he has been weeing on his own chin!!  Dog kisses anyone?!  :)

Lori...we have had this conversation before haven't we - I am always shocked at shows when I see dogs being allowed to pee on ring posts, place boards etc. It nearly always seems to be the 'top' exhibitors that do this as well!

Its one of the reasons I dont have boys I'm afraid - I couldn't be doing with all the leg cocking. If I'm walking a male dog I will only allow him to pee where I say it's ok - its good manners I think!

LOL I think we have shared this horror story before. But I have a male and don't have problems with inappropriate or undesirable leg cocking. It's a simple matter of training and control. My bitch marks as much as him on offlead walks

Hi Alice

All boys arent like this though!! My boys and I have always had dogs have never cocked their leg inside ever! and I would be horrified if they did it at Shows, especially in the rings!
I always thought it was a sign of dominance etc..... or possibly kennel dogs that knew no better? 

I dont know, Im not strict with my dogs at all so woujldnt even say its a training issue, Im not sure what to recommend to the OP but I hope she manages to solve it as it isnt pleasant at all!

Beth

Ooh no Beth, its not all boys...my friend has a young Beagle who never cocks his leg, ever!! I just prefer girls, although I have a female Malamute who tries to cock her leg higher than visiting male dogs - always a funny sight.

I think it largely depends on the dog (whether they are confident etc - I've found from observation that smaller breeds often have more of an attitude, especially terriers!) but also the owner training where is acceptable to pee and where isn't. My friend has a male Sammy and recently stayed over, her dog was so well behaved in the house and I was a little worried as our dogs had done a few pees on the carpet which were cleaned up, but I did wonder if there might be a smell, but he only cocked his leg outside.

I think Teri was spot on with her advice - sending out a clear signal to the dog that it is not acceptable to pee wherever he wants should work. My friend taught her adolescent Lab like this - he peed up her little boys pushchair once, but he knows now that he only pees on walks and when he is allowed off the lead!

Good luck Paula! :-)

> I couldn't be doing with all the leg cocking

Still waiting for Pointer to get the idea of cocking he mostly wees like a girl, and he is nearly 3!!!

> Still waiting for Pointer to get the idea of cocking he mostly wees like a girl, and he is nearly 3!!!

I was starting to worry about Buster, he's 16 months and not cocking his leg yet. Sometimes it looks like he might, his 1 leg will turn out and lift during the course of a wee untill that leg is on tip-toes, but not a proper 'leg-cock' yet (he manages to wee on a front paw with that technique!!), I'm glad he's not the only one that's a bit slow on the uptake :)
I try my best to verbally encourage him with 'come on, lift your leg up', but he doesn't seem to take any notice of me ;)

Hi, Charlie isn't my first male and I didn't have this problem with them. He isn't kennelled and hasn't been as yet. I wouldn't say he is dominant, in fact quite the opposite. He doesn't cock his leg when out on his walks and quite often doesn't even wee at all!!(held it nearly all day when at first show, we were quite worried) He has been house trained for 4 1/2 months with no accidents. He goes to 2 classes, 1 is obedience training, other is ringcraft and I work a lot with him at home, (he is a high energy dog so needs mental stimulation in between walks) so he is not unruly.
Having never had this problem I wasn't quite sure how to "train" him not to do it, but if the general consensus is that we need to readdress the house training, then I'm on it!!! :)
Thanks everyone.
Paula    

Teri:
Each to thier own but im not unduly worried about the risk of electrocution from lamposts. Infact, this is the first i've heard of it :-)
When i said "if you feel the need like Teri to control where he goes outside - follow her methods" what i meant was start with the basics and then build up to whatever level you want. I dont go as far as you to monitor where my dog wees like you so couldnt give any advise on the training for that.

I think control for EVERY dog is important. Just becuase a dog is big/small/fat/thin i think there are rules they should all abide by. Yes i have a miniature poodle, but i wouldnt expect him to lunge or pull anymore than i would expect a great dane or mastiff to. As you said yourself, it about manners not neccessarily size. My dog NEVER lunges at anyone or anything regardless of if he wants to mark his scent on it or not

Freds Mum

this thread isn't about you - it's an answer, given, to the OP with a slightly wider ranging piece of advice for anyone with a male starting to cock it's leg.  

If you want to advise folks not to worry about their dog risking electrocution or that males don't try to lunge, dart, suddenly pull towards a desired claim on new territory or object (call it what you will :) ),  then fair enough. 

IME they do just that if not trained to do otherwise and it's 'my' experience I'm passing on with the added warning that the larger/heavier/stronger the dog the potentially more serious the consequences.

As the OP isn't new to ownership of males I'm sure she isn't new to much of the advice either - but these type of threads come up on searches all the time so where's the harm in trying to be *helpful* ....... 

> im not unduly worried about the risk of electrocution from lamposts. Infact, this is the first i've heard of it

There you go - perfect example.  You've learned something new  :)

Teri, These threads initially start as a group, but as people post comments it is easier to make sense of what you mean if you direct it at the person you are replying to you, as i did for you and you did to me. I didnt want, nor try to make this thread about me. And have kept it related to the OP. In a forum we share thoughts and experiances. That is what ive done. It is up to the individual to decide if they wish to take the advice or not. Im sure the OP will look at the advice and make a decision based on our comments.

I just wanted to say i dont practise the methods you do, but i still dont have a dog that darts or lunges. Was merely giving the OP food for thought and something to think of.

This has come up time and time again. I dont want to go off thread but would just like to say all im doing is sharing my two pence worth (as we all do). I dont need someone to jump down my throat or rip apart my thread.

To the OP:Good luck!! :-) and also, something i forgot earlier - training classes are also a great help. maybe contact some local classes to see whats on offer, they will help you understand behaviour and also some basic techniques. Also a good way to meet other people and cute doggies.

> I just wanted to say i dont practise the methods you do

The value in that being   I genuinely don't get the point in that ........

> i still dont have a dog that darts or lunges

Superb - perhaps you'll expand on how to avoid that in some future training query (my ref to same was specific to it coming about in a determined leg cocking situation) so best we keep on topic.

As for the rest of your comments I'll not rise to them - there's yet again an air of mischief behind them and I wouldn't want to see another thread locked :(

I genuinely don't get the point in that ........

The point being we both use different methods but have the same outsome.
There is more than one way to skin a cat and more one than one way to train a dog. The OP can take their pick in which they'd like to use

Had you given 'your methods' as an alternative perhaps I could see the point ...

Never mind, back on the ignore list

My rules are simple: Freddie wees outside not inside!!  I dont care where he goes in the garden, nor do i care if he wants to mark 10 lamposts  I think to start with go back to basics and give lots of praise when he wees outside. If needs be, put him in the garden to relieve himself every hour or so to ensure he has the chance to do it.

I think that explains it. But hey ho im not gonna lose sleep being on your ignore list!

But how do you teach him that he can't cock his leg whenever he chooses when he's out on the lead? My two still have a tendency to lunge towards a suitable-looking surface, even now, and allowing them to wee on people's cars, doorframes, flower tubs etc is obviously out of the question!

Was that for me? Sorry cant really help.
Ive never found it a problem so have no ideas for a solution for you im afraid.

> But how do you teach him that he can't cock his leg whenever he chooses when he's out on the lead?

I have one neutered boy, 5 yr rescue terrier type mongrel - he's not so bothered about terratorial peeing but is very keen to read every notice left by every other dog that has done the same route!  When we lived in a town he would happily have taken an hour to do a 15 minute walk.  I just give his lead a light tug and say 'walk on' - it worked a treat and the street walks were much faster.  I'd use the same technique if he looked as if he might poo near a house or other unsuitable place.  It gave me enough time/control to move him to a more sensible place so that I could pick up more easily without fear of being run over!!

Our youngster is now 16 months, a gundog breed, unneutered - when he first started cocking his leg when we were out for a walk I'd say 'not here' and just keep up a brisk walk. He doesn't really bother to ask any more.  We live a very quiet village now and with fewer dogs there are much fewer tempatations too!!

I walk both of them together and find that generally the best technique for an easy life is to keep them very close and move at a good pace until we reach the point where they can be let off.  If I dawdle, so do they and then they are more inclined to get distracted by sights and scents en route.  We have one barking garden where the hedge is full of very large poodles!!  We just stick to the other side of the lane and keep moving which helps prevent lunging too :)