i adore my dogs, as you can see from my other posts, however i have a question...not really regarding me but the health of another dog! im a cocker lady!!!

my friend bought a lab pup 2007...lovely dog who mills around our garden with my two crazy pups! (her dogs was from the bitches first litter) and she was then approached by the breeer again) this year as he had a litter from the same bitch this year ...she refused that pup, but has since booked a pup for next year from THE SAME BITCH!!! is that allowed, three in a row???!! if so that is SSOOOOO wrong, what a strain to put on the poor bitch!! (say she has 10 per year year thats 30 pups!! WOW"!!!! ) please update!

thanks love emmebear!

Certainly a year between each litter, though most likely a bit more is not a problem, what is generally frowned upon is breeding on successive seasons (6 months or so between litters), unless there was just one puppy or another very good reason.

What you must remember is that canine pregnancy is just two months and then rearing another two months, so with a year or 14 months between litters that would give plenty of recovery time.

A lot would as you say depend on litter size when we are talking about responsible breeders.

I have never had more than 3 litters from my girls, but generally don't start until they are around 3 and finish by 7.

I think the smallest gap I have had between two litters has been 13 months and the most 3 1/2 years,a nd I have not bred from a bitch 3 years in a row, but certainly plan to breed my youngest champions third litter at the end of next year and she will have had roughly 18 - 20 months between litters, first two of 7 pups each.

None of my bitches has had more than 18 pups total so far.

Most people who breed, will insure that their bitch does not have more than 3 litters in her lifetime. They will usually want to have a first litter at around three and finish at around 6 years old. This means a litter every 12-14 months. It completely depends on how the bitch coped with the pregnancy, and the size of the litter. If the bitch found it strenuous and stressful then it would be wrong to ask another litter the next year, but if they find it natural and easy (like most labs)... then I wouldnt be surprised about a litter 13-15 months apart. As long as they dont mate on the next season after having the pups...

My dog had pups 4 months ago, and is now in tip top condition.. she wont be having another because we dont want another for ourselves, but im sure it wouldn't put a strain on her if i were to let her have puppies next autumn.

How often a bitch can have pups has been clarified in previous replies, but is it me it seems a little strange to me that the breeder is contacting your friend to see if she wants a puppy isn't it usually the prospective puppy owner that rings around to find a puppy?? That would ring alarm bells to me.

It would be usual for a breeder to contact people who have expressed an interest in a future litter to keep them up to date with their plans.

this will be the bitches 3rd and final litter... i think thats why he phoned to see if previous owners perhaps wanted another pup...i dunno i think its weird putting sooo much pressure on the poor dog,one a year seems so much, the last ones are only just away. money making scheme me thinks, cos he never keeps any! if she has 10 a litter and he sells them all, the only thing he gets out of it is a increase to his bank statement! seems a shame to use animals in such a way (in my opinion!)

thanks for all your help x

> money making scheme me thinks

Possibly, but the fact he has no more than 3 litters suggests he is not of the worse kind by far.  If she is a healthy bitch in her prime she should recover well.

As long as she was well looked after while whelping and rearing, and had a 'blank' season between litters it sounds ok to me. My girl is hopefully going to be mated on her next season, her first puppies will be a year old this Wednesday. If I get the girl I want that will be her last litter, but if not I wouldn't rule out a third litter as long as all goes well.

I have a girl that whelped her 2nd litter just about 12 months after her first.  I queried (with my vet) whether or not to spay - he knows that she is an important part of my breeding programme, and she is out of my best lines.  As she only had 2 pups each time, he said that it wouldn't hurt in the least to have a 3rd litter from her, especially as she self whelps.  In a breed that often doesn't.  I kept both pups last time, and will keep whatever she has in her 3rd litter.  So that when I have her spayed, I still have the bloodlines that I need.  I don't believe that I have been cruel to her by doing this, I adore her, and she will be with me for life.

Probably not the ideal but what are the "rules" of the English Kennel Club for litters in a row?
Is there anything in the Code of Ethics or statutes that dictates how many litters in what
span of time or in which intervalls? If there are such guidelines, what are your thoughts on it?

Personally, I'd rather have a bitch have two litters too soon in a row and then stop before
I go "politically correct", have a litter every say 18 months and breed a bitch at age 7. I'd
probably prefer a pregnant and nursing bitch to be young, strong and healthy.

Litters would only be classed as in a row if bred on successive seasons, most bitches have seasons 6 - 7 months apart.  so breeding with  year or more interval is perfectly normal/acceptable.

A breeding cycle from season to recovery is about 6 months.

The Kennel club allow a bitch to have 6 litters registered, and won't register a litter from a bitch under 1 year at mating and that has reached 8 years of age (the upper limit can be exempted on prior application with good reasons).

Of course for many breeds six litters would be over breeding and breed clubs decide what is best practise for their breed.

In my breed for example a bitch should be over two years old for a first litter, should have a first litter by five years of age, and should not be expected to have more than four litters in her lifetime and not on successive seasons unless special circumstances apply with vets support.

> i dunno i think its weird putting sooo much pressure on the poor dog,one a year seems so much, the last ones are only just away

12 months is a long time in doggy years :)
seeing as 1 year for dogs is 7 for us :)

12 months is a good ammount of time for a healthy bitch to recover fully.

Hiya  Im with you, 3 litters in a row to me isnt acceptable. I think three litters from one bitch is a lot anyway.

Whats his reason for breeding ? Is she a top show dog, field trialler or Obedience champion?

OR is he in it for the cash?? 

Come across a few websites in last few weeks where they are just breeding litter after litter for nothing else except making money, it really angers me!
I dont believe dogs should be treated like this either

Beth

> Hiya  Im with you, 3 litters in a row to me isnt acceptable. I think three litters from one bitch is a lot anyway

Can you elaborate?

Obviously if you have three litters from a bitch they are ipso facto in a row.

Unless it is a breed with huge litters I can't see why you think 3 litters is so many.

If you are breeding with a breeding program in mind you need to breed at least two litters to different males to have an idea of what traits the bitch is passing on.

She may blend better with one bloodline than another and you may then want to try one of these again, you might not get the quality or the sex you wanted before, or need to space the dogs you have more.

>Litters would only be classed as in a row if bred on successive seasons, most bitches have seasons 6 - 7 months apart.

Exactly. If a bitch has 8-month cycles, she could have her first litter in January in Year 1, be rested on her next season that same year, have a litter on her next season (in about May in Year 2). be rested for her next season (about January year 3) and have a third litter on the season after that, born in about November in Year 3.

Three litters in three successive years - but with a clear season in between each litter.

> Three litters in three successive years - but with a clear season in between each litter.

Exactly, or even two seasons between if they have four or five month cycles.

Hi Brainless

Maybe opinion varies from breed to breed then.  In my breed we have large litters ie 13pups, and it isnt acceptable to breed more than 2, not many people do and the ones that do are frowned upon .
Im not a breeder myself but still think 3 litters sounds a lot for a bitch to have , just my opinion

Beth

> Maybe opinion varies from breed to breed then.

It does, that is why breed clubs have different codes on these matters.

Yep that was what I wanted clarified.

In breeds that are small and long lived with small litters of 1 to 3 even four or the maximum six litters the kennel club allows would not be a lot of pups.

My own breed seems to average out at about 6 pups even though the odd large litter is known.  The breed club gives four litters as a maximum, which most breeders do not go as far as unless the previous litters have been small.

None of my bitches that have had three litters has yet had more than 18 pups total.  My younger champion bitch will hopefully have one more (in a year or so, so well over a year sicne last one) and may go over this as she has had 14 pups in two, but even another 10 pups would still be less than two litters in the breed you mention.

In my breed we have large litters ie 13pups, and it isnt acceptable to breed more than 2

That will be why,  That is equivalent 3 to 4 litters worth in my breed just one litter from yours.

>Maybe opinion varies from breed to breed then.  In my breed we have large litters ie 13pups,

My breed is also renowned for largish litters (average 8, with double figures very common), and the breed club has a limit of four litters from a bitch.

Ah I didnt realise smaller dogs had smaller litters! I have a  lot to learn, just reading "book of the bitch" havent got to that section yet though lol
Its a very good read but so far has put me off having a bitch, sound much more trouble than a dog!

Beth