my first post and its a moan! sorry-i have lurked on the boards for months just never been one for posting before.
Just after if anyone knows much about these contracts rescues make new owners sign so as rescue retains ownership of dog and if they are truelly 'legal'.  in this case in France.

my parents are in a dreadful situation.  had dogs all their life, not long lost their last doberman and weimaraner, mid 50's both healthy and fit so having read a description of a castrated 11 month dobermann in rescue they had a look and agreed to adopt him from rescue.  he had a lot of issues-from a TOP french kennel so utter royal blood line but totally untrained, no housetraining, little socialising, no lead training, no manners at all, boisterous and bolshy with it .
they loved him-he was training well although had other not so funny issues such as a real aggressive dislike of children and all other animals and dogs but they felt with time and persistence they would get him right.

then my dads lung collapsed.  2 weeks after taking the dog on.  he has been in hospital more or less ever since. any blows to his chest can kill him.  and Clyde jumps up....  yes clyde is getting better but we don't have any room for error.

my mum tried to carry on with Clyde but he is too mcuh for her on her own, Clyde was having to be locked up for hours a day while she visited the hospital many miles away. he is distressed, my mums distressed and my dads distressed.  after a fortnight of this and then being told my dad will need m,ajor surgery in decemeber and then many months to recover the sad realisation came that there Clyde is too much on top of everything else and the person who can train him-my dad is not going to be able to for many months-if ever.  my fit strong father now can barely walk accross a room.

The french rescue they had adopted Clyde through and made them sign a contract saying clyde remained property of the rescue if my mum and dad couldn't keep him so they got in touch with them.

The rescue said they  couldn't take clyde as no fostercare available and my parents should kennel clyde privatly until they the rescue find a possible home which they couldn't say when that would happen.
my dad loves this dog- he knows he cannot keep him as we are taking life or death here but he still loves the dog-and he was far from happy about kennelling him.   a local dobermann breeder offered to take clyde, train him and home him with one of her previous puppy buyers who wanted a second dog but the rescue have said no.  they want to retain full ownership of the dog and continue to get the 250 euros every time he changes hands.

then the rescue came up with an adopter for clyde.  they come today-weeks after the rescue were told of this medical emergency.  my dad was discharged from hopsital on thursday until he has his surgery in early december. he is having to live upstairs as cannot recieve any knocks or blows from his beloved boisterous young dog.  he is now very upset over the people rescue have deemed suitable.

the people who have bought clyde from the rescue work full time, have an adult dobe and 3 children.
my parents have pointed out to her and to rescue that Clyde has a very strong aggressive streak towards children and dogs and that he needs a lot of one to one care but they have been told 'its not your dog- none of your buisness'
the potental adopter is bringing her dog to meet clyde.  judgeing from previous meetings with other dogs and bitches that will not go well and her dog will likely get bitten so we do not think she will go ahead.  she's been told of his attitude towards dogs and children but just said oh he's only year oild so not problem.

we don't think this adoption is going to happen and the rescue will be back to try find a home while my dad has to hide from his own dog for fear of health.  my question is what on earth do they do? this could go on for years.. are these rehoming contracts really legal?  bear in mind this is france not uk.  they have this offer of a knowledgable breeder who can take him but the rescue seems to hate breeders?  breeder won't take him with that contract on him and rescue won't release.

I;ve never had a rescue dog... is this normal?  rescue won't take him in, won't let parents rehome, won't release contract yet seem happy to adopt him to anyone with 250 euros?
my parents are frightend of being sued for theft by rescue if they just rehome him privatly and are heartbroken at types of home rescue think will suit this dog.

has anyone here got contacts in french dog rescues who could please try and help sort this terrible mess out?

oh to add to that no one from rescue has bothered to come out and acesss the dog.  they did take time to tell my mum that this situation is not an emergency for rehoming and that she is an irresponsible owner for needing to rehome the dog.   I am in England, don't speak french and feel utterly useless.
My mum tried posting what was happening on the rescues own forum but they immediatly deleted her message.

I don't know of the legalities or am I able to advise. I just want to offer my support and assure you some one will be along soon who can.
I guess the French have the same as our RSPCA may be they can help out?
Your poor parents,poor Clyde and poor you being so far away.

is he chipped/tattooed? if not...find the perfect home for him and tell rescuse he ran away or died! Let them prove otherwise !

thanks for support.  I feel utterly useless. 
unfortunatly he is chipped with chip being in rescues name else he would have 'run away'.
I have sugguested to my parents if it goes as badly as we expect this afternoon then they should go to a solicitor and see if this contract can be got out of.  They do not need this grief and I could cheerfully throttle that women at the rescue.

Poor Parents, and poor dog! :-(
I am inclined to agree with Sam.

The rescue said they  couldn't take clyde as no fostercare available and my parents should kennel clyde privatly until they the rescue find a possible home which they couldn't say when that would happen.


This would be completely unreasonable clause of a rescue contract or any dog one.   If they cannot take him I would advise finding a good suitable home yourself.

I would love to see a judges face when someone presented such an unreasonable condition in a contract UNLESS of course they say they will pay the expense :-)

What a terribly sad story :-(  It think it is very difficult for any of us to advise unless we knew how these things work in France or what penalties your parents might suffer if they flouted them but it does seem a very unfair position.  Is legal advise a reasonable cost in France or could they enlist the help of their local politician, councillor or whatever?  I hope your father is still recovering well despite all this.

Could the knowledgable breeder your parents know not contact the rescue centre and perhaps negotiate some sort of deal with them.
If they are a genuine caring rescue centre they would I think be most grateful for any help from knowledgable breed people who are willing to help.

I'm also going to see if my mum will have a shot at contacting the breeder( I think she is in Paris, Clydes not too far away in Nomrandy)  rescue say they have already done so but frankly I don't believe a word they say now. his breeder seems to be pretty well known for top dogs in france so I am hoping maybe she could get involved.  won't say who it is on here as that not fair but looking at website etc seems pretty big name.

Clyde is a very beautiful young dog and he has had a rotten time, this is his third home since leaving the breeder and he has a few issues as it appears no one bothered training him until he got to my parents and he is also unsocialised with animals/kids which is a great concern.  I think he could go far with right person as he is keen to please, intelliegent, healthy etc and could make great obedience dog but only in right hands. I'm just hoping this potential adopter turns out better then she sounded on the phone . not got much hope but one never knows.

quote:
Could the knowledgable breeder your parents know not contact the rescue centre and perhaps negotiate some sort of deal with them.
If they are a genuine caring rescue centre they would I think be most grateful for any help from knowledgable breed people who are willing to help.

yes we thought that but the rescue have said they would only let her take him if she agrees to their contract and coughs up 250 euros and then if she rehomes him to her pup buyer once trained the pup person would have to sign contract and pay up too.  naturally she isn't keen.  -its not about the money as my parents would have paid up if thats what it took-but ownership)  they have also made it plan they don't want her doing any fostering for them and are not interested in her knowledge or help. there seems to be some kind of 'ego' thing going on.  ie breeders are all bad-shouldn't breed while dogs in rescue type situation.

PS Weimed I should have added I did understand your parents are in France and unfair terms in contracts applies in France and most EU counties. In fact if anything my experience of the legal system in relation to contracts in France is that they  are very much sympathetic of everyday life and how it can affect carrying out the contract.   I have found with my experience that contracts are often expected to be fairer than in the UK at times.  I personally would seek a solicitor to write to the rescue to address the unfair terms as in the Uk a contract fails or falls because of the unfair terms in France you have to prove it. ( you have the proof though)

well for good or bad its done now.  clyde has gone with the rescues adopter.  on good point she did ask sensible questions like when he was last wormed and clyde liked her bitch (a first-he has disliked on sight every other dog he has met).  My mum said she seemed a calm and sensible women-the child situation is a concern but she has been warned clearly and repeatably.  Its not the way we would have prefered to have done it but little choice. 
At least now my dad can concentrate on getting better.
regarding adopting a rescue animal -this has put me right off.  I know most places are fine but I'd certainly advise anyone getting a pet via rescue to ask a lot of questions about how their contracts work first as no one knows what circumstances life can throw at you. 

also. thank you so much everyone for your support on this. was so stressed out over it this morning just had to tell someone!!!  your help has been much appreciated.

Blue: The rescue said they  couldn't take clyde as no fostercare available and my parents should kennel clyde privatly until they the rescue find a possible home which they couldn't say when that would happen.

This would be completely unreasonable clause of a rescue contract or any dog one.   If they cannot take him I would advise finding a good suitable home yourself.

I would love to see a judges face when someone presented such an unreasonable condition in a contract UNLESS of course they say they will pay the expense :-)

As i read the OP, she hasnt said this was a condition of the contract, she just said they couldnt help at the moment.
She just said the contract said the rescue owns the dog for life. This is standard amongst most rescues. It means the person cannot rehome the dog without either returning it to the rescue or checking with the rescue. That means in the OP's parents case, the rescue should honour their own contract and take the dog back when the owner cannot care for it anymore.
If anything, as the rescue arent living up to their part of the contract, and if it were to go to court, i would say its the other way around...the parents can take the rescue to task for not honouring their own contract.
Although rescues in the UK state they own the dog for life and that it is just 'adopted', its debatable if this would pass muster in a court of law, as after a certain amount of time the dog is de facto owned by the person who adopted it.
Dogs are regarded as chattels, so 'adoption' isnt legally correct as a contract title.
Lots of rescues have re-labelled them as care agreements, whilst still retaining the ownership rights.
Dont think its been really tested in a British court though - its open to question if any contracts that state rescues own dogs for life are actually legal.

I have the same clause in my rehoming contracts and have successfully prosecuted in court once against the adopter who handed the dog to a third party without my knowledge/approval. The third party was totally unsuitable for the dog. However, I always keep a free space here in case a rehomed dog *bounced*, which luckily happens seldom as I train and assess the dogs before rehoming and can match them fairly well with a suitable home.

Nothing is foolproof but the behaviour of the rescue is inexcuseable IMHO.

As i read the OP, she hasnt said this was a condition of the contract,

Hi Krusewalker :-)

The poster said:

The rescue said they  couldn't take clyde as no fostercare available and my parents should kennel clyde privatly until they the rescue find a possible home which they couldn't say when that would happen.

If the rescue were permitting the poster to help find a home I would expect they comments to be in the original post.

If the Rescue even verbally told them they had to keep the dog UNTIL the rescue found a home then the rescue whether verbally or written are making it or trying to make it part of the contract. There is a bit of vagueness of course but I responded based on the post and the poster implied the rescue want to be the one finding the home even though they cannot take it on.

Dogs are regarded as chattels, so 'adoption' isnt legally correct as a contract title.
Lots of rescues have re-labelled them as care agreements, whilst still retaining the ownership rights.
Dont think its been really tested in a British court though - its open to question if any contracts that state rescues own dogs for life are actually legal.

Oh Totally agree with you Krusewalker :-)  I avoid this debate on here as we do have a couple great rescue people on here and a good majority of the rescues have the right intention behind them even though I think the law is very clear on "real rights" so any rescue contracts have to be very carefully done and worded carefully.

Most puppy contracts & rescue contracts etc really rely on the people having little or no legal knowledge but the written terms is often used as a deterrent.   I recently read the contract guidelines laid out by one of the cat societies,  at least 75% was unenforceable but I do understand "some" use them as I say as a deterrent only . Of course you will always get the odd one just trying to be controlling which I think does not make a good case for the breeder, rescue or society. 

There is ways but it really comes down to a sort of joint ownership type agreement.

Sorry to hear about this stressful situation which your parents certainly didn't need at this time,  I am appalled that the rescue didn't come to pick up Clyde immediatley and take care of him rather than leaving him at your parents knowing how poorly your Dad is!!

The rules of the rescue I help state that if you are unable to take care of the dog, to contact the rescue and the rescue will take the dog back.  There is no way we would leave a dog with owners that were not well if they had asked for the dog to be rehomed, and we would normally pick up the dog within 24 hours but usually the same day.  And we would NEVER rehome a dog with children if the dog is aggressive towards them.  This is a rescue that you should question about what has happened and their reasoning.

Most rescues put the dog's welfare first, this has not happened in this instance.  Thank goodness your parents are responsible loving animal owners, and let us just hope that the new owner is as sensible, although as they have children and know the dog can be agressive towards children it looks doubtful.

Hope all goes well for your Dad and if I was in your situation I would be investigating the rescues contracts and motives.  I would not let it rest until they promised to change their methods and motives.