I suspect my bitch might be pregnant but am unsure whether or not it is a real one or a phantom one.
We have two unspayed bitches and another bitch and a dog and we agreed to looks after a friends two un neutered male dogs for 11 days while they were on holiday about 8 weeks ago, the day before the dogs turned up our dachshund came into season and we spent the whole time making sure at no time she was alone with them, Unfortunatly we didnt pay as much attention to our bitch and only realised she was in season after they left. We did not see any mating take place and didnt notice the males paying her any attention but there were a few occasions when the three of them were left alone to give the dachshund some peace, as our bitch was also harrassing her, i do know that she was still bleeding a little after they left and i know they usually dont bleed when they are ready to mate so we kind of thought we were safe. Its about 8 weeks on and she looks like she is pregnant.

We did have her to the vet but at the time we had added the dates wrong and thought it was only 6 weeks ago that the males came to stay. The vet thinks there is a chance it is a phantom pregnancy as she couldnt feel anything much but her stomach is very round. She is going back in the next few days for a pregnancy test but now that we have added the dates up she could be due anywhere from the 20th of november onwards. when i have felt her tummy i cant feel any movement in there but it looks like she has swallowed a football so something is definatly going on.
  Is it possible for a phantom pregnancy to look this big? How long does a pregnancy test take? My main concern is that one of the males that came to stay was a rather larger breed, he was very over weight though so i couldnt imagine the bitch supporting his weight, the other was a mini breed so i hope if she is pregnant it is the mini breed

  With a phantom pregnancy does swelling show later then in a normal one? she seemed normal up until a couple of weeks ago and at first i thought i had made her ill from over feeding her,she is normally a very thin dog and a picky eater then she suddenly started stealing food off the table and eating as much as we would feed her so i was happily giving her as many small meals a day as she wanted to eat thinking i would finally get her to look a little less boney then she just balloned in the space of a few days.  Also she has been very irritable and has bitten me a couple of times for trying to move her off the sofa to her bed in the kitchen, which she never does, she usually loves being carried through to her bed and getting tucked in.

She is about 2 years old and healthy appart from her large tummy, temprature was fine when we were at the vets and so on.

Well sorry for the long talk but i am grateful to find this site and look forward to hearing any suggestions.
Kim

I'm sure there will be other people along soon with far more experience than I have, but to me it sounds very much as though she is pregnant. Best get her to the vet today to check :)

Oh dear, bit of a mess isn't it?

To be honest only your vet is really going to be able to tell whether she is pregnant, he will need to do a scan, unfortunately none of us with more experience can palpitate your bitch from here or actually see her.

You haven't mentioned her teats one of the classic signs of a phantom is that the teats fill up with milk, and she would usually begin to nest, hoard toys, shoes, etc is she doing any of these things?

It will also depend on when she actually came into season, generally working on the 'norm' a bitch will not be ready to be mated until the 2nd week of her season, if the two male dogs were not going mad for her it is possible she was only in the first week of her season when they were there (fingers crossed) it would be unusual for you not to have noticed them harrassing her.

Bitches living together will often coincide with their seasons.

I would have thought that your vet would have been able to tell previously if she had pups, but ask for a scan (I know sometimes they miss, especially the number of pups, but your vet should be able to see something)

What you need to seriously think about is whether you are going to allow this litter to continue if she were to be in whelp, talk over all the options with your vet, ask about the termination injection and spaying. Raising a litter is expensive and very hard work, are you home to care for the bitch and the pups? Let us know what the outcome at the vets is and if she is in whelp we are here to help you learn very quickly about raising a litter and caring for your bitch, if you should choose to go ahead, but I do hope that she isn't in whelp it is always very difficult being unprepared and thrown in at the deep end, and of course there is the risk to your bitch aswell.

Bitches living together will often coincide with their seasons.

Do you know why that is Carrington?
Its a strange coincidence isnt it if bitches coincide their seasons...... or isnt it lol ?
I have no expierance of this as my bitch is spade so just wondering :)

Hi Rach yes,

When you go back to the Wolf (here we go again :-) ) you have the Alpha male and female whom are usually the only two that mate, (occassionally with good seasons etc the Beta bitch may get a look in, but quite rare) so you have the Alpha bitch that will only have the pups, to conincide with survival of the pack and perhaps the Alpha being killed after pups etc, all the lesser bitches would have a phantom and produce milk and their hormones would make them very maternal.

After the pups are born the other bitches will nurse and raise the pups also, this is how a pack will survive and with all those bitches producing milk the pups will be well fed and cared for.

With domestic dogs they are not very often brought up as a pack so do not always have phantoms, but when they do it is the most natural thing for a bitch to do so and that is why it is so common, dogs today get confused hormonal and mixed messages as they are not living the way their instincts tell them to, which is why you get a mixture when some bitches have phantoms and some don't. :-)

> so you have the Alpha bitch that will only have the pups, to conincide with survival of the pack and perhaps the Alpha being killed after pups etc, all the lesser bitches would have a phantom and produce milk and their hormones would make them very maternal.
>
> After the pups are born the other bitches will nurse and raise the pups also, this is how a pack will survive and with all those bitches producing milk the pups will be well fed and cared for.

That is amazing isnt it?
How the pack have evolved to survive learning from past expierances to the point where they all season together and then all care for the pups, nature can really look after its self cant it :) :)

Thank you Carrington as always :)
xx

>That is amazing isnt it?

Synchonised 'seasons' are a well-known phenomenon in convents and girls' boarding schools too.

That! Is even more amazing.

Can't get away from species survival can we. :-D

For some reason I find that more freaky then learning dogs do the same LOL

Survival instinct is an amazing and fascinating thing :)
The way animals evolve and work their surroundings to so much better efficiency and family values then us apparantly 'top dog' species, I know sometimes I look at these 'lowly' creatures and wish I had their life lol

Amazing :)

I would also imagine that having the bitches all have seasons together means that the Alpha male will be busy mating the Alpha bitch and be less likely to stray and mate and produce pups with one of the others also thereby straining the packs resources.

I also imagine it would be at this time that any change in alpha positions is likely to occur.

> I would also imagine that having the bitches all have seasons together means that the Alpha male will be busy mating the Alpha bitch and be less likely to stray and mate and produce pups with one of the others also thereby straining the packs resources.
>

I was just about to ask why the male can only mate one female even tho he is alpha,Its cause of resouces and not being able to provide the pups etc is it, ahh I see.
Shame the human males of today dont think the same PMSL :-D

I agree, the key to all species survival is self preservation and species continuation which, as the most intelligent species we make these two things the most complicated of all, we have to run rings around ourselves to do these things, sometimes I think we are actually the dummest of all species. :-D

We have to go to work to earn money, to buy or afford our territory and our food, pay bills, taxes etc (many of us dislike our jobs and our lives) we sleep and eat against our own bodies instincts, then have to go through who knows what to find a mate, we live by the most rules to do these two simple things, we are the species who live the least on our natural instincts.

So I actually fine JG's phenomenon quite refreshing that our natural instincts if we found us all to be female would conicide with a menstrual cycle to impregnate most of us if a male were to be passing, (lucky male :-) ) we'd probably all get this sudden urge to mate. :-D I'm actually quite pleased that our bodies will ignore our self built very complicated civilization if pushed.

> sometimes I think we are actually the dummest of all species. :-D
>

Completely 100% agree with you :)

> We have to go to work to earn money, to buy or afford our territory and our food, pay bills, taxes etc (many of us dislike our jobs and our lives) we sleep and eat against our own bodies instincts, then have to go through who knows what to find a mate, we live by the most rules to do these two simple things, we are the species who live the least on our natural instincts.
>

Its so so sad as we are born with these amazing abilities and yet as soon as we get to school their shunned and our instincts and reactions are pushed back to our subconcience where they will be lost forever so we can be controlled and we will fall inline like a monged out sheep only to follow and provide, we only use about 15 % of our brain (Not exact percentage but close lol) so whats the rest for? And theres a part which people think is for psychic abilities, we will never know unless we start focusing on ourselves and not providing the world with stuff that doesnt matter in the scheme of things what so ever, even the lowly dung beetle has more of a purpose in life then we do!
Maybe if we stopped remembering and storing absolutly useless stuff like roadnames, towns, cities, postcodes, names, people, places etc etc theres so much to remember no wonder we arent even in touch with our sixth senses anymore theres no room with all this c*** in my brain!

> (lucky male :-) )

As long as its Gerald Butler I dont mind being a subordanant lol :-D

Hello, Is 8 weeks too late for a termination? The vet did feel her stomach and said she couldnt feel anything but that with a phantom pregnancy the womb fills up with fluid so that is what it might be or she might just have puppies and alot of fluid anyway. The vet didnt offer to scan her, she just told us to come back on thursday and she would do a blood test. I have raised a litter of puppies before but never a small breed like shih tzu, the last litter i had was a few years ago and it was a rescued rottweiller, It was a hell of a lot of work and i  had no intention of repeating it! But i guess i might have to, me and my partner both work from home so having the time to care for them will be no problem, i just hope she is a better mother than  the rottweiler, she wouldnt wash the puppies or help them go to the toilet for the first 2 weeks and we were having to help them all to go to the toilet every few hours at first and there were 11 of them so we had to supplement them with bottle feeds also, it was alot of work especially when they grew bigger, we are still in contact with most of the puppies new owners (i say puppies but they are huge dogs now :) ) Unfortunatly the rottweiler died not long after having the puppies after being spayed, it was heartbreaking and we always kick ourselves for not keeping one of her babies now but we are glad to see them all with good owners.
Hopefully if the shih is having pups its only a few small pups and she is a good mum but even if she isnt im not worried about looking after the pups im mostly worried about whether they are going to be too big for her to give birth to.

As for her teats, there is no sign of milk but her teats are much larger than they used to be and seem like there is some sort of wax coating over them which never used to be there. Her behaviour is different in that she used to be hyper and now she looks depressed most of the time, she perks up when we offer to take her on walks but she isnt her usual self out on walks either. She hasnt been guarding toys at all but she is more possesive with her food than she used to be and although she likes snuggling up with her dachshund sister at night she guards the sofa from her through the day(i hope she isnt planning on giving birth up there)

Also i know she was bleeding when the male dogs left and she definatly seemed to become more ready after then but it was only a couple of days she was bleeding for that we saw and the dachshund was bleeding for about a week and a half.

Thank you for your replies.

As long as its Gerald Butler I dont mind being a subordanant lol

:-D :-D My first hearty laugh of the day.

I saw something advertised the other day that a boy has had half his brain taken away and can still function fine, there we go, I think we have definitely steered the human race in the wrong direction, the possibliities of our brains real uses is phenominal.

We are unfortuantely not much more that performing dogs/monkey's ourselves ask the waitress who is performing a smile for her money when she actually feel like throwing the plate on her customers head. :-D

Hello, Is 8 weeks too late for a termination?

8 weeks is too late for the injection to cause termination, it can be used upto 40-47 days (forgotten the exact date) at such a late stage the pups would most probably be euthanised after a c-section.  I know that would be a terrible decision, you'll have to contemplate that one with your vet, I'd ask for a scan. :-)

Omg why would they have to be euthanized?! :( I wouldnt like that at all. As for a C section, do you think she would need one regardless of who was the dad or do you think a dachshund cross shih tzu pup would be small enough for her to give birth naturally?

This is why I would have the scan to find out how many pups, and your vet can see the sizes of those pups to make a decision as to how your girl will cope and whether a c-section would be needed or at least be on standby if she is to be in trouble.

My vet said that there was "no way to know" if the puppies were going to be too big before the birthing time comes, i think maybe they dont have equiptment to scan her there. I will make sure i ask her about this as she definatly didnt say i could have her scanned, it is a small vets practice but there is a large one in the city, perhaps we could get referred there for a scan. The vet did talk about the possibility of having a c-section but said we would discuss it when we found out the results of the pregnancy test.

> I saw something advertised the other day that a boy has had half his brain taken away and can still function fine, there we go, I think we have definitely steered the human race in the wrong direction, the possibliities of our brains real uses is phenominal.
>

That is stunningly amazing isnt it?

They also found that people who have organ failure they might not need a transplants.
The body will shut its self down and remake/fix the organ if given enough time in a coma like state, of course we never wait with things like this in these times and we transplant, doesnt work with all cases if their deadly serious but how amazing is that!! :-D

I would definitely go for the scan to the city vets,  according to your calculations though if she were to be pregnant your just not going to have an accurate date as you saw no tie, but you think the pups are due on the 20th or there abouts, your vet will be able to easily palpitate your bitch in the last week to feel the size of some of the pups and if she is in whelp you most probably will see movement yourself, she may well be in phantom, may even have a medical problem, or be in whelp, if she has a large swelling she could be carrying a good number of pups, two large or a lot of water, with 2 different breeds here, you need to know as best as possible.

I personally would not take any chances with my bitches health or welfare I would take her to the city if your vets does not have the proper equipment.

> Also i know she was bleeding when the male dogs left and she definatly seemed to become more ready after then but it was only a couple of days she was bleeding for that we saw and the dachshund was bleeding for about a week and a half.
>

Many bitches bleed throughout their seasons ans sometimes for a full month, other hardly show colour at all yet ovulate.  Some are fertile at day 3 others at day 23 from onset of bleeding.

It sounds like she is in whelp.

At this stage a vet may to be able to feel pups as they are surrounded by water but a scan should pick them up.

Certainly I would get whelping quarters ready now so she knows where they a re, though she may ignore them until she is actually in labour, or until put there when birth is imminent.  another week or so will tell you if she has pups for sure.

> When you go back to the Wolf (here we go again :-) ) you have the Alpha male and female whom are usually the only two that mate, (occassionally with good seasons etc the Beta bitch may get a look in, but quite rare) so you have the Alpha bitch that will only have the pups, to conincide with survival of the pack and perhaps the Alpha being killed after pups etc, all the lesser bitches would have a phantom and produce milk and their hormones would make them very maternal.

You might be interested in this article based not on captive bred packs but on truly wild packs makes interesting reading, especially the part re inbreeding & unrelated wolves joining the pack

Very interesting isn't it, beautiful animals.

It is interesting that the Alpha bitch (there's a name for women like her :-D ) will also encourage other males to look after the pups too.

But it does also show through to our own domesticated Alpha bitches whom generally do not play with the pups brought in to the household, and often even in domestic packs will allow other bitches to play with their own pups whilst they sit and watch, if their role with the Alpha male is to protect the pack with all the pressures of that, then it does make perfect sense why caring for the pups is given to other pack members.

Hi

It sounds like she is pregnant.  Phantoms in dachshund dont generally go the whole hog just a big milk bar and some swelling but a lot of difference between the two belly size wise.
I would get her confirmed and have the vets number on hand as she will most probably need a c section if this is a mini dachshund as shih tzu pups are bigger the dachshund pups.  If she is a standard dachshund then their will be no problem.  Plus the temperament suggests she is as well.

Hope everything goes well

Emma

The bitch is the Shih Tzu, the potential sires are a cocker or a Mini Dachs.

Got that one the wrong way round then.  So my guess would be if she is pregnant then if it is the min dach then she will be fine but a cocker might produce pups a little too big for a shih tzu to pass safely.

Emma

> Bitches living together will often coincide with their seasons.
>
> Do you know why that is Carrington?
>

Not strange at all.  If you put a few women living together, they eventually cycle at the same time. 

Sorry, posted before reading on down.

you ought to live in my house.....4 human females all getting pmt at same time!! roflmao!!  Yes it works in humans too!

Its a strange coincidence isnt it if bitches coincide their seasons...... or isnt it lol ?

its pheremones (sp) that cause it- sort of floating hormones!

Well we got the results today and it turns out she is definatly pregnant. Our vet referred us to another clinic for a scan first thing monday morning so hopefully the scan shows healthy puppies. The vet said her main concern was her having one large puppy but said if their are 3 or more then the chances are they will be small enough as her tummy doesnt look too big. Thanks again for all your advice, Kim.

Fingers crossed that the pups will be small enough for a natural whelping.

Let us know how things go. :-)

Hello again, went for the scan this morning and they said they could see 2 reasonably sized puppies and they think there was also a third one though are not sure, they think she is due in the next 2 to 4 days and think she should be able to give birth naturally. They let us see some of the pictures from the scan after they were done :) was really amazing to see the little pups before they are born. We have built her a little whelping box now and she seems quite taken with it and has done alot of nesting in there. Will let you all know if i have any trouble or questions, thanks again for all your advice :) Kim

Alright more questions :) The vet estimated that the pups would be born by friday but i see no sign of milk yet. The vet told us she had estimated the time they would be born by measuring areas of the puppies against the mums organs but she also admitted that they hardly ever use the scanner and are still learning to use it so might be wrong i guess. Is there a chance that pups can be born and the mother will produce no milk? or is it more likely that the pups are not due for a good few days yet and the mother will produce milk closer to the time? She has been having calcium tablets daily and is on a diet of puppy food and chicken though she is getting more and more picky with her food and wont eat unless i hand feed her and the last 2 days she has been sick a little in the night. Her teets havnt got much bigger in  the last week, they are definatly bigger than an unpregnant dog but dont seem very full at all. Im really starting to worry that something isnt right and that we are going to have to bottle feed the pups :( another worry is that because we didnt know she was pregnant until so late on she was having plain dog food up until the last week and although she was having a bit more of it im not sure it was enough for her. She doesnt look under nourished at all but her coat seems really unhealthy and sparse in places and its never been like that before :( is there anything else i should be giving her to supplement? The vet only gave us calcium and recomended puppy food but if there was anything else i could give now and after the birth i would like as much information as possible. Thank you in advance for any advice.

> i see no sign of milk yet.

Milk wasn't at all evident with my girl until a few days after the pups were born - initially the pups are getting colostrum through the teats and milk follows, produced on a supply and demand basis.  The more pups and the more they feed the more her body will produce which is why it is so important to ensure you keep your girl in the optimum condition, increase her food and ensure she drinks well - especially after the pups arrive.  Don't panic about needing to bottle feed or hand rear pups at this stage - mother nature does very well in most situations and if there's a genuine emergency situation looming I'm sure you'll get support as necessary on and off forum :)

You may find she is feeling nauseaus just now because just like pregnancy in women, the babies are pressing hard against her tummy, bladder etc.  She will need to relieve herself more regularly and would be better fed little and often if she can face food at all.

Don't be overly alarmed at perceived lack of best care during her pregnancy - I haven't read the thread but from this post have gathered that this litter was a late surprise.  Accidents happen, we just have to work through them as best we can.

I didn't supplement my bitch with anything but then I planned the mating and ensured she was in peak condition and on an optimum diet throughout, however your vet may have decided on examining her that your bitch does need some form of supplementation and I would therefore suggest you take your vet's advice.

There are far more experienced breeders, both in time served and litters bred, than me on this forum.  Hopefully someone will be better able to advise or set your mind at rest.
Do you already have your whelping box and supplies organised?  (apologies if this is covered elsewhere!)

HTH meantime, Teri

I have a whelping box ready, we built one ourselves and are very pleased with it, we built a large wooden box, we have lined the floor and sides with lino so it is waterproof and we have attatched  her crate to the side of it with one door opening into a hole on the whelping box and one opening into the room so she can get in and out through her crate and hopefully the puppies cant follow her when they get bigger. i think she likes it as she has always slept in her crate and now she has a big extension :) . Im not sure what you mean by other supplies? i have a set of scales for weighing them plenty of old sheets and towels etc scissors and string for umbilicals. What else should i have? Im not a breeder but have raised a litter of puppies once before but that was a good few years ago so please give me any advice you would give a complete novice. This litter was absolutly unplanned and totally unexpected but i want to do the absolute best i can in the circumstances. thank you for your advice about the milk.

Sorry, in the middle of making dinner just now so quickly off top of my head I had nutridrops and dopram (although didn't end up using either) just in case of emergencies plus a gazillion other things which probably went unused too LOL but if you search the forum for 'whelping kits' you should be able to find a number of threads with lots of useful tips on what to have on stand-by.

Greatest stand-by of all is an experienced set of hands to help and of course your vet's number on redial!

Don't forget lots and lots and LOTS of newspapers!! :)

Giving a bitch extra calcium can be counter productive. It doesn't do any good, and may actually do more harm than good. The extra calcium may stop the bitch from producing her own calcium when needed. IE after birth. Unless the vet has told you to give it I personally wouldn't give it.

As to milk production. Is this the bitch's first litter, or has she had one before? Quite often a bitch will only produce milk at the last possible moment, especially in 2nd or subsequent litters.

This is her first litter. The vet gave us the calcium tablets and i just assumed this was normal, she didnt say she really needed them for a specific problem or anything she just said "i'll give you some calcium tablets to help with her milk" and i took this to mean she needed them. Should i just stop giving her them? If i didnt give her the tablets but she needed extra calcium when the pups were born how would i know? To be honest i dont really trust the vet completly after she sent us home the first time without doing a pregnancy test and just told us to change her to a bland diet to see if the bloating was caused by her diet and if that doesnt work come back for a pregnancy test and she only agreed to the scan after we pushed about it and now she has given us tablets she might not even need or worse that might harm her?

The vet gave us the calcium tablets

Sometimes I wonder whether vets know anything about breeding, as already said the calcium tablets are not needed, most good quality dog foods particularly puppy which your bitch should now be on, have added calcium, giving tablets also can cause the body major problems especially when producing milk, which in turn may lead to eclampsia.

So off the tablets. (Unless your bitch has a prior calcium problem)

As already said maiden bitches often do not show their milk, it takes 2 weeks after whelping for full milk to come in, often people think their bitch has no milk as the teats are not swollen, but it is colostrum and a slow build up as already mentioned, as long as the pups are gaining weight, sleeping happily and content, no need to worry, when your bitch has pups that is all that you need to look out for to know they are having enough colostrum and in turn milk. :-)

Well after doing some research (not that i dont trust your advice) i totally agree about the calcium and im furious my vet gave them to me without any mention of the possible risks,she hasnt had it this morning so hopefully it will get out of her system quick enough and not be a risk. i didnt mention also that she gave me a wormer for my bitch regardless of the fact that she is up to date and always has been, I didnt give it to her right away as she seemed to have an upset tummy and i asked the other vet about it when i went for the scan, the vet asked the brand of wormer and told me it had never been tested on a pregnant bitch, only on rabbits and rats and that she would wait until her stomach settled or until the pups are born and old enough to be wormed themselves. Do all puppies have worms regardless of whether thier mum has been treated regularly? Should i give her the wormer? Im so unsure what to do for the best now.
Well i have had 3 hours sleep last night, i thought she was going into labour last night as she was very restless and dug up the bed and seemed very uncomfortable, it only lasted an hour though then she went to sleep, i still stayed up just incase though, think i might have a sleep this afternoon to make sure i can stay up tonight incase :)

Firstly which wormer have you been given? I would only use a wormer that says it is safe for pregnant and lactating bitches. And when was she last wormed?

The hormones during pregnancy do cause dormant eggs to hatch in a bitch and transfer to pups/milk/ cleaning of pups by the bitch also causes re-infection. Did your vet offer puppy drontal or panacur for the soon to be born pups, I've always used puppy drontal from 2 weeks of birth it is very important that the pups are treated every two weeks aswell. :-)

My dogs are wormed every 3 months, they were wormed not long before the dogs came to stay so would be due in the next couple of weeks. The wormer looks the same as the one they usually get, the vet gives us it in a sachet and it is granuals to be sprinkled in thier food. it doesnt have any information on the packet appart from the fact that it is panacur. The vet didnt offer us any wormer for the puppies when they are born but i will get that when i take her in for her check after they are born i guess. would it be safe to leave the puppies until they are two weeks then worm mother and pups then instead with something safer? im really worried about giving her the wormer when she is pregnant as i know she always gets an upset tummy from them.

Now got time to add.................

It actually is not unusual for vets to mess up like this, we've all learnt over the years to check all medication given, via those in the know or on the Internet as often when given medication through a vet there are no manufacutrers instructions and side effects in the box, a vet will just tell us they are safe, this has even happened when the instructions are in the box :-(

Vets really are very un-knowledgable when it comes to breeding, they are good at their jobs but breeding seems to be quite commonly not their corner.

We've heard it all from the wrong wormers, the wrong ear medication, calcium tablets (you've got 2 yourself there) I've even heard a veterinary nurse tell someone not to cut the nails of the newborn pups as they grown back thicker. :-D

You live and learn, but when it comes to breeding you are better off with dog people.

I have given Panucur in pregnancy, the liquid rather than the granules, as prescribed without any problems.   It is always a little unsure which dogs will tolerate which wormers but as has been pointed out bitches do pass encysted worms on to their pups whether they have been previously wormed on not.

I have a bottle of Panacur 10% oral suspension in front of me so will copy what it says.

>Pregnant dogs: 0.5ml oral suspension per 1kg body weight daily from day 40 of pregnancy to 2 days post whelping (approximately 24 days)

>Puppies: 0.5ml per 1kg of bodyweight daily for 3 days. Puppies should be treated at 2 weeks of age, 5 weeks of age and again before leaving the breeders premises. Treatment may also be required at 8 and 12 weeks of age.

Your vet should have known this and your dog should have been treated accordingly. I would seriously think of changing vets if possible.

If your bitch is due to whelp then it is obviously too late to start her worming regime, but she will need to be wormed. As will her pups.

Well im glad its not just me. I know its horrible to accuse people but i blame 2 vets for the sudden deaths of 2 of my dogs. i dont see those anymore if at all possible. One of them was just after i had my rottweiler speyed, she developed kidney failure due to some complication and i was given antibiotics and told to keep her quiet because she was just recovering from a major operation. I followed the vets advice but she went down hill really fast and in the end had to be put to sleep as their was nothing they could do she was only two and it was heartbreaking. The other dog was an old mongrel dog and one day he cut his mouth on a bone and it wouldnt stop bleeding the vet saw him and told us mouths do bleed alot and just to feed him soft food 14 hours later and several phonecalls to the vets and she agreed we could take him back in to have it cauterized in the next 10 days he needed it cauterized 3 times as it kept bleeding. We told her we thought he might be a haemophiliac and she told us its so unlikely in a mongrel, its probably just his age and so on, we eventually went to see another vet for a second opinion and she told us after a simple blood test that he had cancer that was affecting his blood clotting and wouldnt live very long the next day we had to take him in to be put down. The first vet didnt even appologise or putting him through three useless operations when he could have had some medication and at least let us see him off peacefully. We were both so angry that we had trusted the original vets diagnoses when we both knew and told the vet his blood wasnt clotting. Needless to say i dont have much faith in vets anymore :(

Can i buy panacur 10% over the counter or only at the vets? i will definatly ask for this one, it sounds much better to me.

hi i bought panacur 10 % when my pups were young you can buy the paste syringes at most chemists now and i got the bottle of 10 % at a farm type shop which sell dog food and stuff cost me about 12 - 13 pounds a bottle