Has anyone got any suggestions,solutions for a dog who barks and whinges in class ?
This dog ( not my own !!! ) barks from the start of class to the end . Dont think it has been around other dogs much since it went to puppy classes but there are others in the class that have not been socialised and they barked to start with but are fine now.
Need help as do not think ears and voice can cope with it much longer !!!!!!!!!!!!!

At my dog club, a class helper will squirt water at barking dogs, saying nothing & make no eye contact. Most get the idea after a few goes. It doesnt harm them and makes for a peaceful training session.

Stopped my Rough Collie after 2 goes - oh the indignity of getting wet! :-)

Hi
Firstly, some breeds/lines are more vocal than others.  Also, just because one dog can cope with a certain situation doesn't mean to say that another can.  What breed and how old is this dog?

It could be barking due to stress (caused by a variety of reasons), a lack of self-control, attention seeking, self-gratification, boredom or any other number of reasons.   Until you ascertain the root cause you won't be able to select the BEST cure.  

Some might suggest 'ignore it'...........Well this certainly didn't work with a GSD at my training class. It is now nearly 5 yrs old & it is still barking, luckily they don't attend that often. This owner now admits that it was the wrong advice for his dog. This is just a word of warning. I use the water squirted directly in the face method, for my dog, along with praise & treats, when he is quiet. He isn't too bad, it's only when we are in a queue, waiting for our turn at agility shows that he barks. If I have my little water bottle, he is a different dog.

TRY GETTING SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE OWNER HOLD THE DOG.  WHEN THE DOG BARKS THE OWNER SHOULD HAND THE DOG OVER TO THE OTHER HANDLER AND THE OWNER SHOULD WALK AWAY. WHEN THE DOG IS QUIET THE OWNER SHOULD SAY 'GOOD QUIET' AND TAKE A SMALL STEP TOWARDS THE DOG. IF THE DOG STAYS QUIET REPEAT.  IF THE DOG BARKS THE OWNER SHOULD TAKE A STEP AWAY. IT DOES WORK ON SOME DOGS, BUT OF COURSE IT DEPENDS WHAT THE DOGS LIFE AND OBEDIENCE IS LIKE OUT WITH THE CLASS. AS i SAY TO PEOPLE THAT COME TO MY OWN CLASSES TRAINING IS NOT JUST ONE NIGHT A WEEK. 

> What breed and how old is this dog?

The dog is a CKC and it is about 2 + yrs old.

I have taken the dog and tried walking round with it and it stopped  barking a bit but still whinged.

This water squirting happened to my boy when he was a puppy for obedience.
We left as they seemed to be soaking him, and to me it was bullying.
He is a barker, and I truly blame a lot of the way he is now on his treatment then. I certainly wish we hadn't persisted as long as we did.
Karen :(

I think it depends why the dog is barking ....

If the dog is anxious/stressed then any negative associations added to the mix (the water spray or anything similar) will only serve to worsen the behaviour IMO. 

If the dog is over excited, then I'd suggest (a) the owner ensures it has a good physical workout before coming in so excess energy is spent and (b) the trainer ensures the dog is first seen or in the first group to do the training exercises then removed so as not to allow it to become hyped up watching everything else going on around it.

It's only going to become habit forming so IMO the reasons for the behaviour have to first be established before the appropriate remedial work is put in place

If you've ever wondered if your dog's bark is worse than his proverbial bite, the answer may lie no further than your next-door neighbor. The first thing to do is determine when and for how long your dog barks, and what causes him to bark. Your dog may be barking out of boredom and loneliness if He's left alone for long periods of time without opportunities to interact with you. Walk your dog at least twice daily--it's good exercise, both mental and physical. Walks should not only be considered "potty breaks." The barking occurs in the presence of "intruders," which may include the mail carrier, children walking to school, and other dogs or neighbors in adjacent yards. Teach your dog a "quiet" command. The barking occurs when he's exposed to loud noises, such as thunderstorms, firecrackers, or construction noise. Identify what's frightening your dog and desensitize him to it. The barking occurs only when you're gone and starts as soon as, or shortly after, you leave. Some cases of separation anxiety can be resolved using counter-conditioning and desensitization techniques. There are several types of bark collars on the market, and we generally don't recommend them.

I have a breed who bark its part of thier makeup hense the phrase 'barking beardies' it is how they work.

In training classes the excitement of 'working' they would bark I would deal with this by putting them through thier paces while we waited ie: sit, down, stand, rather than upset the whole class I would take myself off into a corner and do a bit of training it really works, my dog loves it and you are not disturbing the other dogs., there is a lot of standing around waiting your turn in parts at training classes , use that time.

(I think the water spray works initially for some breeds but mine think its a game , one I am not fond of)

> the water spray or anything similar) will only serve to worsen the behaviour IMO. 
>

I agree I was not too keen to go down that road as I dont think the owner would be very happy.

I told her last week to make sure that she ( the dog ) had a good walk before she came and she is allready in the first class.

the owner comes along with her mother ( its the daughters dog who barks all the time ) and her dog barked to start with but it is ok now.They are in the same class but I think it may be barking to get to the other dog, or perhaps the girls mother ? even although if it is beside the other dog it will still bark.

The barking dogs owner just lets thets her dog bark unless told to try  and keep it quiet. what do you suggest I tell her to do to try and quieten it herself ?
Also asked what she was feeding dog but was not confident enough to tell her what amounts of protein, carbs etc her dog should be getting any advice for me about feeding !!?

> The barking dogs owner just lets thets her dog bark unless told to try  and keep it quiet. what do you suggest I tell her to do to try and quieten it herself ?

I'd be inclined to encourage her to come only with her own dog and not accompanying her mum with her dog too - it may or may not contribute to alleviating the problem but at least it would mean the problem dog's owner was giving her undivided attention to her own charge which should have a positive impact.....

I'd also suggest that she begins trying to train the dog before entering the hall - just a few minutes of setting the mood, some basic commands and gaining attention with a food reward.  When attention duly achieved she could perhaps continue to 'work' the dog when entering the hall and also keep up same while waiting to join in group training (or however you work things).  Perhaps try to demonstrate to her how to train a 'watch me' command :)

HTH, Teri 

>

> If the dog is anxious/stressed then any negative associations added to the mix (the water spray or anything similar) will only serve to worsen the behaviour IMO. 
>

This is just what happened with us, and now in retrospect my advise to myself would have been.....not to try and join in the activities for several classes just to go along with dog on a lead, to sit and watch.
He became a more stressy and anxious dog and could not respond to food treats.
Karen

Hi Karen,

I'm sure most of us having owned many dogs over a lot of years have behaved similarly - 20/20 hindsight is so much more reliable LOL.  That's why it's important to know why a dog is behaving in a set way - with something like barking for eg it could be anxiety/stress through fear of being in an enclosed area with so many other dogs and restricted of course by a lead.  OTOH it could be over excitement at wanting to play with the other dogs and frustration because of being restricted by a lead.  Equally it could be something else altogether LOL.

Like you I've always found that even the most food hungry treat stealing grubber won't look at any type of food if stressed - it's as though every other sense just shuts down :(

> The barking dogs owner just lets thets her dog bark unless told to try  and keep it quiet. what do you suggest I tell her to do to try and quieten it herself ?
> Also asked what she was feeding dog but was not confident enough to tell her what amounts of protein, carbs etc her dog should be getting any advice for me about feeding !!?

I posted my answer to your training problem in the 'Half-check collar' thread ie training for 'the absence of a behaviour' by operant conditioning.

Just replying at the end:
When I took my dog to classes there was a Finnish Spitz and boy did he bark constantly.  It was almost like he was 'demanding' treats so they went back to rewarding him when he was quiet only and then using a 'quiet' command.  It took time but he did cotton on and was not nearly anywhere near as vocal but I have seen him out on a walk and he barks loads then too - maybe a breed or excitment thing???

> maybe a breed...thing

Definitely, they are the Barking bird dog, the hunting style they use for Hunting Capercaile in Finland.

Ok....my suggestions (having read the other posts and cherry picked some other people's ideas - I'm not proud!!!  :-D) are:

1.  Exercise before training, but allow sufficient time for the adrenalin levels to subside.  You don't want the dog physically hyped up when entering the hall.
2.  Get the girl to bring her dog on her own.
3.  Get her to arrive 10 mins early and be the first to enter the hall with you.  Check dogs reaction - ie it will it still eat a treat?  Let it or get it to be quiet and relax.  When quiet, get another dog to be brought in the hall.  Allow them to greet briefly but then move away.  If all remains quiet, keep adding dogs as above until you get a reaction.....at that point, remove dog from hall.  It stays outside until quiet and can then be brought back in again.  If you get a second failure, the training session ends then and there for the dog that week.

You can distract a dog by keeping it busy, by getting it to do sit, down, paw etc etc.  However, to my mind that doesn't teach a dog self-control.  In conjuncion with the above, at home the owner needs to be working on a 'switch-off' or settle cue.  The dog needs to be down, with a dropped hip and NOT focussed on the owner.  This could easily be taught with a clicker.  Once this behaviour is established at home with the owner say watching TV, then you need to get her to establish it as the default behaviour in the training class.

You could also consider teaching her to put the bark on cue and then introducing a 'hush' cue.

HTH

> You could also consider teaching her to put the bark on cue and then introducing a 'hush' cue.

Exactly...training for the absence of a behaviour.

It may also be that a training class is not suitable for this dog.

Especially if the class is large and noisy - some dogs find it too much, esp. if other dogs eyeball them, they are expected to do recalls with this happening, etc. It does depend on the dog of course, but a good trainer would recognise this. A good class should not have more than say, 6-8 owners with their dogs in it. Otherwise it's hard to give good advice and attention. Too many classes jam owners and dogs in to get more cash - not good for the dogs or owners, though.

> but a good trainer would recognise this.

The OP is the trainer.

> Exactly...training for the absence of a behaviour

will try this but may be difficult as hardly stops barking for whole lesson.

Has been out of hall on its own to see if it would calm down and stop barking but was worse.

Will try Gunners suggestions this week and hope that owner has taken dog for a walk before class.

The class the dog is in has only 6/7 dogs in it so is not a big class and the classes are not held to make money as we are all volunteers and owners pay £2 per session in order to pay for the hire of the hall cleaning supplies etc.

classes are tomorrow so thanks for everyones advice and I will let you know how things go.

Dog is a Cavalier and I know some can be noisy but Most of the ones I have had in to groom are usually very quiet and tend to be VERY laid back so do not think it is reallly a breed thing though I may be wrong