hi there:

I bought a malamute boy Mike 8 week old, yesterday, when I took him to double check his health, vet told me that Mike had a overbite, about 3mm over, other is ok, no health issue, does every body know about overbite, is it a big problem? is it common in dog teech? is it a inheritance from parents? I find his mum's teech are perfect, no problem at all. but I don't know how about his dad, his parents are KC reg, I bought him as home pet, although vet told me no problem just without show quality, or should I require refund?  I am still think overbite will make him trouble. how can I do to him now, does he need some treatment? can every body help me to put my mind down LOL

thanks a lot

It's called a 'scissor' bite in a normal dog mouth (excluding some specific breeds which have their own requirements) ie when the top set of incisors just skim over the bottom ones in a scissor action.The incisors being the small teeth at the front between the big ponted canines.

A slight over bite or 'slack scissor' will have no effect on the dog whatsoever if it is not to be shown or bred from, It will make a perfect pet for you and you need not worry. A 'parrot' mouth on the other hand, is where this is very exagerated and you could put a finger up between the gap - this mis-alighnment can cause eating problems and abnormal wear in the mouth.
No dog is perfect and I dont suppose the breeder sold you a pup as 'perfect' - if is as you described then I think everything is fine, no treatment required.

Please also bear in mind that this is a puppy and a very young one at that, so it is only an educated guess how it's adult teeth will come in anyway...... in the grand scheme of pup things this is a very trivial thing indeed so dont worry.But if you are in anyway not sure -ask your breeder...your trust in them should be paramount...you'll need it in the future.

Most pups lower jaws grow on a bit more than their top jaws. At 8 weeks I would be happy for the dogs top teeth to be 3mm over the bottom ones as yours are. By the time he's mature he should have a perfect scissor bite :-)

thanks so much tooolz,you put my mind down. yes ,we bought him as pet , not for show or breed. I don't care about how perfect he is, I just hope him healthy.

we phone the breeder, they also tell me this is not a problem. they also supply the vet number to let me make sure about that. that vet said Mike has no other problem. just overbite. till now he don't have eating problems .

oh, my brother has a huskmute boy, 4 month old now, also has this overbite problem, he told me he found his huskmute 's the top teeth are 1cm over the lower teeth. and without eating problem now, I suggested him to ask the vet, do you think this is severe in his puppy? will it be a big problem in his future?

thanks a lot. regards

hi tigger2:
really?? hope that ~~~

you mean when Mike grows up, the teeth bite will change to normal, isn't it? oh that's wonderful

I don't know about the malamute teeth, is overbite normal in this breed?? is it a kind of inherited ? because I find MIKE 's dad has a little bit long in month from the pics the breeder gave me.

anyway, thank you so much about this.

> because I find MIKE 's dad has a little bit long in month from the pics the breeder gave me.
>

Has he been shown?  That will usually sort out whether a dog has a decent mouth.

Certainly in borzois, which have long jaws, you would not choose a show puppy with a perfect scissor bite at 6 weeks, as the lower jaw seems to grow for longer and the dog will more than likely end up with an even bite (where the teeth meet rather than the top overlap). I would rather see a small gap, such as Mikes 3mm. Bad/faulty bites can be inherited but I wouldn't expect any sensible breeder to use a dog that didn't have a good bite. When you say Mikes dad looks long in mouth does it look like his top jaw is too long or his whole muzzle? To be honest unless he's severely overshot you wouldn't be able to tell from a photo.

Edited to add this picture I found, I don't know the dog in question but would put money on it being overshot.

Dogs with longer muzzles can often appear from photos to lack balance in length of muzzle and under-jaw when on inspection it is a correct bite for the breed :)  In simple terms the 'nose' gets in the way of the over all visual impression!

Equally, as pups, these breeds have a lot of developing to do in head as the foreface lengthens and not always at exactly the same rate as the underjaw.  A couple of mm short on the lower jaw at this slight age is not IME at all significant as these bites often change from week to week and it may appear sorted in a few days only to appear short again a few days on.  This does not necessarily indicate anything is wrong at all and certainly not something which you should be alarmed at.

In (loose) general terms it's the adult teeth which determine the bite - not the baby ones - however in an obvious case of overshot (say 5+ mm) it is IMO less likely that the lower jaw will fully catch up.  In a cm + it will amost certainly cause discomfort to the dog when eating as well as incorrect wear and tear on certain teeth and possibly the lower canines coming in contact with the roof of the mouth.

When the adult canines come through top and bottom (the large 'fangs') this often 'sets' the bite in that the strength of these teeth and placement/setting of them when they come in can go on to restrict the amount of movement in the bite hence if a pup is 'under-shot' at all at the time these break through (the opposite of your lad) then it will almost certainly remain so.

HTH,
regards Teri

Hi Isabel : I think the stud dog not been shown

> this picture I found, I don't know the dog in question but would put money on it being overshot.

My money would join yours in the pile!

and me ;)

I think the stud dog not been shown

So has the dam been shown?  Or are they just breeding from pet quality dogs?

I think they breeding home pet dog.

my brother said, he remembered, when his husmute was 8 week old, the overbite had already was like that, maybe 1cm+ over in bite.  he didn't think that is problem, but now he begins to worry about . he loves his dog very much,  is there any operation to treat the severe now? or what can he do to his dog? 

thanks all the reply

Have you got your Malamute Pup insured.

As it sounds like a Pet breeding I would take no chances, I am assuming the parents have not been health tested.  Hip scores etc would be on the KC reg certificate under their names.

hi tigger2: does the dog in this pics has a severe problem? or in this breed , it is normal? 

I don't know about the standard of show dog, but I and my brother both hope our dogs are healthy. thanks you letting my mind down, but my I think by brother's huskmute will need a operation, isn't it?  or do you think at this stage-4 month is a better time?

huskmute, is this a Husky/Malamute crossd

hi perrodeagua :  yes, is their cross , so cann't be KC reg ,the breeder said.

I am sure that there is no operation to shorten or extend a jaw so think the dog will have to manage with it's mouth as it is. If yours is pet bred Mal I agree it would be best to insure it now, treatment on such dogs is very expensive and one never knows what may be around the corner.

Hi Brainless :
yes , I have 4 free insurance from petplan which breeder gave me.
the breeder told me the puppies are as pet, n't KC reg, to be honest, i don't know, what is the KC reg  certificate , I remembered breeder told me the bitch hipscroe  is 20, shown me a paper he said from vet.  I don't know what is that.

sorry for my unwisdom, but I really wanna my Mike is a health boy, also my brothers's.

Hi Teri :

thanks a lot for reply so much, you let me know a little bit about dog bite. do you think there is any treatment to correct my brother's boy, 1CM over is so severe, what can my brother do to release the pain of mouth on his dog??

kind regards

Well dogydogy999, your thread has demonstrated to anyone who might be looking for a puppy, why it is important to buy from people who know their breed and are involved with some sort of dog activity, which is where knowledge and experience is exchanged, rather than people breeding from pet dogs and are ignorant of genetics.  No reputable breeder would sell pups who were not Kennel Club registered, nor would they see the need to cross two pedigree breeds together.

I hope that your dog's mouth grows to be OK but if you have seen a picture of the sire showing the same hereditary fault, then you've taken a big chance buying from this breeder.  To continue with a good life insurance policy would seem to be a good idea. :(

Also a hip score of 20 is at the very edge of what I would consider reasonable to be bred from, and I certainly would only breed from a bitch with that score if all her ancestors had better scores and I chose a mate with a low score coming from low scoring parents and grandparents.

Let's hope that the other parent was scored and much lower. 

We have just acquired a 9 wk old border collie pup with an overbite.  She is absolutely perfect in every other way.  She as a great personality and is completely full of life.  As long as she can live a happy painless life is all we want.  I just feel that if no one took on the less than perfect puppies then what would happen to them.  Would the breeders start drowning them I wonder.  As the vet informed us at this age it is hard to say how severe her overbite will be and that if she as made it this far in life then she will certainly suceed in adult life.  Not every one can have the designer pup, so what if it looks different as long as it's happy and healthly does it matter if its only a family pet.
I wouldn't dream of taking her back, it won't stop her doing obedience or agility, running around and enjoying life to the full.

Thing is if breeders breed properly ans only breed from dogs with correct mouths then any imperfect mouth either over or undershot is likely to be minimal and therefore no issue for a dog living a life as a pet, but should exclude it from being bred from.

It is when these less than ideal pups are bred from that worse problems are produced in their offspring and actually cause the issues that will cause a problem for the dog.

So the issue of PTS if breeding is done properly should not come into it, as only a little from ideal should e the result not extremes of bad mouth or whatever.

Hi again dogydogy999

> what can my brother do to release the pain of mouth on his dog??

has it been established the dog is in pain?  If so, or TBH if even if it's suspected, the dog should be examined by a vet.

regards, Teri

Hi horses001

> As the vet informed us at this age it is hard to say how severe her overbite will be and that if she as made it this far in life then she will certainly suceed in adult life

very probably - but not necessarily with teeth ....  At 9 weeks even a specialist canine orthodontist wouldn't make that assumption.

> Not every one can have the designer pup, so what if it looks different as long as it's happy and healthly does it matter if its only a family pet.

The health and wellbeing of EVERY dog, regardless of what it is destined to be in life, should be paramount to everyone.  Taking a puppy from any breeder which has an obvious physical defect is a gamble as it is not the appearance from a 'pleasing or not to the eye' perspective itself which compromises the dog, but the effect the defect may have on it's ability to lead a normal, comfortable and happy life.

Hopefully your pup's problem will be very minor and nothing further will be required than daily cleaning of it's teeth (which I'm sure your vet went into great detail about) as of course malformed bites are even more likely to cause a build up of plaque, tartar, gum disease etc. even in very young dogs.

regards, Teri

We have not gone into this lightly, we have discussed it in great detail.  We have made arrangements to meet with a Specialist to discuss with us the in and outs and to explain everything we need to do to help the puppy and look after her teeth correctly.  I do not think she is going to go through life without us having to do anyhting and that everything will be perfect.

> We have made arrangements to meet with a Specialist to discuss with us the in and outs and to explain everything we need to do to help the puppy and look after her teeth correctly

I wouldn't fire that kind of cash at this problem at this stage - it will be many, many months before a specialist could even guestimate the outlook for this little treasure and longer still before any remedial treatment (if any IS necessary) could be carried out.

If you're vet has already discussed this in detail I would have expected that s/he would have told you that much.

Good luck with her, she obviously has very caring owners :)

Re comments about 'bits growing at different rates'
My boy had good bite at 8 weeks, was overshot at 4 months, but by the time he was 9 months he had - and still has correct bite again.
Chris

Hi Dogydogy999,
As you said in your post,you wanted a to give your boy a pet home.So love him,enjoy him and do all those things Mals love.Hopefully you have researched the breed,as they are not always for the faint hearted.But they are a unique and wonderful breed.You should have researched the health issues as 20 is a very high  hip mean score for a Mal - 13 is the mean average.I do wonder why the puppy is not K.C registered though the parents are.Could be many reasons and I can think of several.
At this stage a 3mm will not effect the health of the pup.It may correct it self,but this is by no means guranteed.It may be hereditary ,but could just be no explained reason.
Alaskan Malamutes are unfortunately being overly exploited by BYB trying to make a quick buck.(as are many breeds :-( )This is causing many health issues such as epilesy,hip dysplasia,congenital cateracts etc.
We had to sadly turn down a Mal pup with a 4mm overshot jaw about 3 years ago..Pup was fine at 3 1/2 weeks (after travelling 750 miles in a round trip to met the litter of pups.)but by 5 weeks it was noticable and getting worse.This was from a reputable breeder,all health tests were done,no history of Jaw problems on Dam or Sire.We asked a few well respected breeders who all felt that this wouldn't correct itself.Sadly we wanted to show our pup eventually so head had to over rule heart.Because we went to a excellent breeder she kept us informed up to the point at 8 weeks when she went to a pet home.
Your pup should not need treatment unless it continues to worsen.But he is still young and the jaw line will continue to develope. and change.I have seen a few Mals with overshot jaws that may not be the most handsome,are still beautiful in their own right!And they lead normal healthy lives.
Get him neutered,enjoy him.When he is older eg 12 months old why dont you introduce him to scootering/sledging/weight pulling.
Mals were born to pull.

> .I do wonder why the puppy is not K.C registered though the parents are.

Because one of the parents is a Husky and the other parent is a Malamute I think. :-)

Hi  horses001:

I think you are right. not every pup are born perfect, many puppies even have more health issues. how breeder or people will deal with them?
I am lucky Mike is health in other aspect.  and I will love him all his life.

hi again Teri:

one of my friend told me vet always charge a lot , is it right? 
my brother loves his huskmute very much, he would not give him up, I think, he will pay for that, he is not a rich man, but for him,the dog is much more important.  that is his responsibility to do that.

now I am going to research some knowledge for him ,and enquiry from people with more experience with overbite.

he said he hasn't found any pain on the dog's mouth till now, but as you said, 1cm+ over may make  discomfort for certain.

thanks a lot

thanks tatty-ead:
I hope my Mike's jaw would turn to normal in couple of months.

hi cornishmals:

thanks for your infor, can I reg Mike in KC myself? why the puppy is not K.C registered though the parents are. considering this, they will earn more money if all the pups are KC reg, because the KC REG pup is more expensive than the one who not. what is the real reason for that? or is it because all the KC REG pup will be perfect , without any defect. so the price is higher?

but anyway, I have already own Mike, I will love him whatever he is or not. mal is rare in UK.
yes I will get him neutered to reduce many trouble after he is 6 month old the vet told me. is there any orginization for mal scootering/sledging/weight pulling? 

kind regards

>can I reg Mike in KC myself

Sorry but no. Only a dog's breeder is allowed to register it, and then only if the parents meet certain conditions - the bitch must be within a certain age range, and both parents' registrations must be free from endorsements.

mal is rare in UK

Malamute's are not rare in the UK - well bred litters maybe.:)  There are 10 litters advertised on this site alone at the moment!

Hi,Maybe I missed something earlier but I thought it was your brother that had a Huskamute.I was under the impression that your Mals parents were both K.C reg Mals.
As said you can not register your pup,the breeders have to do this.So why haven't they unless it is a Mal V Sibe cross?As I said earlier could be a variety of reasons but all good respected breeders will register their litters.If it is not reg could be for example too young sire/Dam,too many litters in a year,too old Bitch tc,etc.Did you read the Dam/Sire k.c certificate as this should have been available for you to view.
The Mal is  not a rare breed,unfortunately there are too many unscrupious back yard breeders around,who don't care a flying fig about the health and welfare of their dogs.
Your breeder should have pointed his overshot jaw out to you.
You should wait until you boy is about 12 months old before you work him in harness.Go to the AMWA,AMCUK or any of the Siberian Husky clubs for info.They are all very helpful.

> Because one of the parents is a Husky and the other parent is a Malamute I think. :-

The cross is the brothers dog, the poster says theirs is a Malamute.

Hi

The breeder we had our dog of with an overbite would not allow us to have the papers with the dog to ensure we don't breed from her.  They did say that we could have the pup as long as we promised not to breed from her.  I know they only have our word not to but as a responsible dog owner I would not but there are people out there that would.

If they didn't want you to be able to register puppies from her they could easily have placed restrictions on the KC papers, these are called endorsements and are used by most reputable breeders to protect the bloodlines, so you would have had the paperwork and the situation would be the same as it is now, in neither case can actual breeding be prevented.

I very much doubt that the litter could have been registered that your pup came from and this was just an excuse.

Yes she was registered and yes you are right there are endorsements on there that the breeder put on.  It was a joint decision not to have the papers, we chose not to take them as she is a pet and they would not be needed anyway.  As the puppy was free to a go home, she didn't want us to have the papers but we could have paid for them.

Don't all breeders put restrictions on to ensure all necessary checks and tests are done before breeding.  I thought that would be compulsory to ensure good breeding and to protect the breeders name.  I actually thought it happened in all cases in all breeds of dogs that are regsitered.

No the endorsements are voluntary, but good breeders do use them, sadly there are lots of bad breeders that don't.

So it seems your pup was actually registered, but she was passed on without them, though it is not ethical to charge for them.

Oh I thought they were, our shepherd as them on hers.  The breeeder will lift them until we have the hips scored etc.

Perhaps it's something for the future and that it becomes compulsory, to stop bad breeding.  Something to think about.

hi everybody:

my brother took his dog Tank to vet, the vet said Tank need to get rid of his lower canines, the fee is 150 pounds, the problem is if a dog without lower-canines, is he ok in normal life? anybody have the similar experience? thanks a lot.